$4 gas... question?

we are not under a dictatorship and last time i checked we were all able to freely make our own choices, maybe its time to start making wiser choices....not living like free spirited hippies in a free society, i really think it all boils down to the choice we make can controls the governments outcome...really im thinking today already what i will be doing tommorow, getting in the car and mapping out the best route and not going out 3 times for the things i need....simple things like that. oh, and not buying any Chinese sht lol

Plan ahead, buy a smarter car...sounds good right? Well they're already considering a milage tax to make up for gas tax revenue lost to all electric cars. We all know you can't sue city hall, but it's even tougher to 'out-shaft' em!

I'm kinda with you Joel, I am not going to let gas prices stop me from one of the few enjoyments in life.... slow down a bit, maybe, but not stop.

I havent had a bike for over 20 years... keep "threatening" my wife that I am going to get one because of gas prices. Actually its just the excuse to get another.

In reality, the numbers dont work out.By the time you buy the bike, add insurance and plates, and factor in the fact we can only use it 1/3 of the total year(if your lucky), the savings are not there. Plus, with our business, I haul something almost daily. (BTW, Dont let my wife see this part)

I don't care about high fuel prices.

Less tubers. Less jetskis.

Yes, the government actually has been good at keeping the prices as low as possible.

Anyone disagreeing with that should go live somewhere that fuel is very expensive and still makes our current high prices seem laughable. That would be most of the democratic countries int he world by the way.

Dave, your analogy is a bit drastic to say the least.

I'll say it again, because unfortunately it's been falling on deaf or closed ears, but corn is a horrible source of food for anything. It makes better fuel than food.

If anyone wants to argue that point with me, go eat a couple cobs of corn and when you take a #2, you'll see why. It's largely indigestible. Pigs, chickens, cows, fish, they feed it to all those "farm" stock and they become fat and out of shape. Make it into corn syrup, and while it does sweeten stuff up, it's known to very bad for you. It's probably the biggest reason for the increased rates of diabetes in America.

Also, ethanol is not as bad as many people think it is for engines. Internet hype will easy make anything seem like it is the best or worst thing ever.

Anyone bitching about gas should probably buy a more efficient vehicle. I'm shocked that some folks still use H2 hummers for daily drivers. I'm not happy about gas prices being as they are now, but I won't rant about it. I drive 70 miles a day, and I don't do much more than a little complaint once in a while. Then again, my old SUV got about 3-4 mpg less than my not so fuel efficient v8 car does.

Big oil has been relying on the repugnicans for convenient tax breaks and the means to post huge profits even despite lean economic times.

Ever wonder why Shrub flew his Middle eastern cronies out of the US after all the planes were grounded in 2001?   If protocol had been carried out, that plane would have landed in about a million pieces after being blown up by a couple of US fighter jets.

In any case, biofuel from will be taking the place of ethanol in the near future. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=biofuel-from-bacteria

Sorry Tom, But I am not going to thank the government for bumping up the price of my fuel by 50 cents a gallon. At least not until they start spending the money more prudently. Your logic escapes me, if I complain about the cost of fuel for my truck or boat, what makes you think I am funded to spend thirty grand on a prius that can't pull my boat or haul my tools. Now I need two insure and maintain two vehicles. I am complaining because our government is giving money to Brazil to develop thier oil industry and promising to be their best customer while banning our own oil companies from drilling here when our unemployment is at 9%. Our fuel may be cheap compared to other some countries but it could be much cheaper. Oil is the lubricant of our economy. Restricting it slows the economy. Severely restricting it grinds the economy to a halt. In a free country I see the governments role as providing thing that individuals and private companies cannot provide for themselves, not dictate what will be provided as a matter of social policy. Gas taxes are to pay for transportation, and it is clear americans like to drive their own cars, few choose public transportation unless they are forced into using it, so those that think they know what is best for us divert money from roads to build light rail and fund bus sytems that can never support themselves finacialy and than try to increase the cost of fuel to get us to use their idea of transportation.

Your are correct that corn is not the best utilized food by our bodies, but it is an even worse fuel. If we converted every inch of farm land in the us to growing corn forfuel, there is no way we can ever grow enough to replace oil, not even close. Currently ethanol is subsidised to come close to competeing, between the state and federal funding ethanol recieves $1 per gallon subsidy. that means I not only pay for my gas but my tax dollars pay for someone else to use an inferior fuel. It also reguires duplicative systems for transport and refining reducing efficiency, since it delivers less energy per gallon we end up using up more storage and transport capacity per unit of energy. Despite it being advertised as clean burning it puts out more particulate pollution and is worse for asthmatics. Corn production uses horrific amounts of water resources. The worst part is using food for fuel by the law of supply and demand increases the cost of food. The government magically keeps food and fuel out of inflation figure, if included we would be seeing significant inflation right now. I believe biofuels will be part of our future, but we need to use waste bio sources, not food. Re-purposing used fryer oil is brilliant. if we can make it out of fallen leaves and grass clippings great. If we can filter the algea out of the lakes that comes from farmers fertalising their corn crops even better. But we have to get the technology to the point where an alternative can match or beat the price of curently used fuels, and not by artificially inflating the price of oil. We have 100 years of oil right here in the US. By the time we use it up we will have alternatives. no nead to deprive ourselves now. When the time is right and it is profitable people will line up to produce alternatives.

M3Fan wrote: Nice to see some remotely progressive views here on occasion.

Thanks, Just because we like our big V8 ski boats doesn't mean we need to lean to the right all the time.


At some point in the near future, as long as I stay at the company which I work for, I'll be looking at bare minimum getting a much more efficient car. That mean hybrid, maybe a tdi Vdub like Eric, or even a all electric vehicle. Ford's all electric focus will be coming out soon and will have a 100 mile range at least. Having nearly been rear ended yesterday (driving the audi) on my way home has me rethinking taking the bike all the time it's not raining. Had I not been watching everything, the jeep patriot directly behind me that was rear ended by a wrangler would have hit me had I not stepped on the gas and got very close to the car ahead of me. The patriot driver must have let off the brakes and moved forward after getting rear ended. That's the second time since August that I avoided being rear ended in the Marquette interchange area of MKE since I started my new job in August.

If we wouldn't be planning our wedding this summer, I'd probably be get a more efficient car this summer already.

I think once the richest people get taxed accordingly, that all the complaining and bickering over these little issues will die out. Once the middle class don't have to pay the majority of taxes it will free up a lot more usable income.

Yes, it does all go back to that.

Horkin (and other libtards),

From the IRS data:

"The top-earning 5 percent of taxpayers (AGI over $159,619), however, still paid far more than the bottom 95 percent. The top 5 percent earned 34.7 percent of the nation's adjusted gross income, but paid approximately 58.7 percent of federal individual income taxes."

Sounds like some think we need more redistribution of wealth. Just remember, what the gvt gives to one group, it must take from another. We dont have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem.

Since 1960 the US gvt has never had tax revenue greater than 20% of GDP. Even when the top marginal tax rates were as high as 91%. Yes, 91% in the early 1960's. It tends to stay at about 18% of GDP. People dont tend to stay in one tax bracket. They go up and down based on the economy. Hence, the Laffer curve theory (Zero tax rate and 100% tax rates yield the same tax revenue, nothing). So, grow GDP (NOT by gvt stimulus) and you will grow tax revenue. That is economics 101.

Dont fall for the bobble head talking points you see on MSLSD and CNN! Think about it. If the gvt let me keep more of my money....I would spend/invest it. I might send my tranny to Eric now, rather than wait for it to die and complain that he charges too much!

Sorry, I just wrote a big *************** check to Uncle Sam this weekend and I ain't happy about it!

I just got back from a week and a half overseas where there is <7% unemployment, nationalized healthcare, great roads and infrastructure, and one of the lowest rates of national debt in the world.

And they achieve all of this with gasoline at ~$8/gallon, a top tax bracket of 45%, and 2-3 years of near universal compulsory military service (men & women) at their life's prime.

Where is this fantasy land you ask? Israel. A nation completely surrounded by enemies and with few natural resources.

Don't buy the hype...

gun-driver wrote: Waterdog wrote: Gun driver, Tell us more about making your own bio diesel. How much fuel can you make a week ? Did you build the distiller or buy a pre made one ? The cost of the distiller ? How much room do you need in the garage for the distiller ? Ect... Made my own processor. I make around 40-120 gallons a week.(40 gallons per batch)How much I make depends on our demand and how much time I have. Right now I have a little better than 240 gallons in stock so I make a little here a little there to keep the inventory up. Here's a couple of places to start reading. These guys are the CCF of Bio. http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/forum168/ Some good info on these forums http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/cfrm/f/498605551 This is a good place to get an idea of what it takes to make Bio http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_mike.html#filter

Gun-driver I have been researching biodiesel for the last 6 months and am soon going to set up a little biodiesel maker at home. I have a 119 gallon hot water heater for my set up. Post some pictures of your set up. Its always cool to see other peoples designs

horkn wrote: emccallum wrote: Horkin (and other libtards), Sorry, I just wrote a big *************** check to Uncle Sam this weekend and I ain't happy about it! I'm sorry if you need to resort to name calling. It's the easy way for those that can't argue their point properly to make them feel better. I respect dave (overmyhead) and anyone else that can make their points without name calling. One thing that bothers me is how news and other sources call democrats "liberals", when the mirror image negative connotation term from republicans is repugnicans is not ever used on media? Oh, btw, I do not vote pure democratic. I vote in either direction that I see fit. You might want to state the real source of the data. It's easy to fall for fake "IRS" data.

I could really care less how you vote...its how YOU think we need to take more of someone elses labor I have a problem with.

Sources: IRS data - http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html
        Top marginal tax rate - http://www.truthandpolitics.org/top-rates.php

When you state such an ignorant remark as: "I think once the richest people get taxed accordingly, that all the complaining and bickering over these little issues will die out. Once the middle class don't have to pay the majority of taxes it will free up a lot more usable income."

I cannot let that go without a reply. The data is very clear about who pays the bills in our country. For some reason you believe an even larger percentage of "the wealthy's" income should be confiscated so you can have your subsidized whatever. At some point those folks will say enough. Atlas will shrug! A perfect example is my rental property. My property taxes skyrocketed. To the point that it takes 2.5 months of rent to cover just the property tax. Then I pay tax on the income left over, and get minimal deductions for improvements/expenses. Guess who that increase gets passed on to?? The renter. Then everyone complains about no affordable rental property. So, your answer might be: lets get some gvt rent control and really screw up the market! Why not make gvt less intrusive in the rental market?

Listen, name calling aside, republicans are just as guilty as dems, our gvt produces nothing! It is a burden to free markets, and as it continues to print money and call it Quantitative easing (QE). We are getting sold a big fat turd. Our money is going to be worthless.

Their is no way we can tax our way out of this mess. We must hold our gvt responsible and force them to balance their books as we have to balance ours. Both parties. Trust me, I have not been impressed with either party for a long time. I used the term Liberal, as the "social Liberal" not affiliated with a party, but a belief that a centralized State should control many aspects of peoples life (healthcare, education, welfare, utilities, etc.).

I call it like I see it.

did you ever wonder of our alliance with Isreal? we protect them like a little brother...and we send them aid???? whatever happened to paid protection? a little blip on the map, if you ever wonder where your money ends up....

Hansel wrote: emccallum wrote: "Where is this fantasy land you ask? Israel. A nation completely surrounded by enemies and with few natural resources." Few natural resources....including 4-5 billion dollars in US aid! Source: http://www.hotpolitics.com/tax4israel.htm haven't heard a single good argument yet as to why we should not. Ironically all of the rationale I hear against raising the top tax bracket is, at least to me, rooted by first principles in the fact that they are not taxed enough.

WHY NOT? Be selfish for a second. What if the highest tax rate was again 95% on every penny you made over $200K. Circa 1960 it was just that. Would you work hard to make $300K? Hell no! So if everyone making millions and millions was suddenly taxed so that they only made $200K, would they work hard to make a million $. Double hell no. People that create jobs by going out on a limb and building a business have a goal to make lots and lots of money, not just $200K. You can't create very many worth-while jobs on $200K. THINK about the big picture, not just that your neighbor makes more than you! Leave YOUR cave, kill something and drag it home! Don't be mad 'cause your neighbor did it.

Hi Ernest,

I am sure that you know more about running and operating a small business than I ever will. I think I follow your argument, and I can find little wrong with it.

I want to make it clear that I am NOT for raising taxes on small business owners. I am also NOT for raising taxes on middle to low income Americans. I am not really even in favor of raising taxes on people who make $1 million a year. I am talking about people who make tens, to hundreds, to even billions of dollars annually paying a lower tax rate than you and I.

Just think about this; if you made $50,000 at year for 50 years you would gross $2.5 million in lifetime earnings. To make a billion dollars you would have to work like that for 400 lifetimes, or 20,000 years. Let's even be generous and say you make $1 million annually... It would still take you 1000 years or 20 lifetimes of working to make $1 billion.

People that make that much money are not even in the same universe as us. Failure to tax them is leading directly to revenue shortfalls as I have pointed out. We have a spending problem in part, not in whole but in part, because we fail to collect from them what we could an I believe should. I stand by that statement and that is where I am going to leave it.

I tire of these endless debates... I am pretty sure that I can see your point of view and I agree in principle and in practice with much of what you say. Can you not see some truth in my position as well? Why does it always have to be one way or the other. We need to cut spending AND raise taxes. It is the only reasonable way forward.