ACME 540 ??? |
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6157 |
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Wow that got there fast!
Where do you get the best melons Hollywood? |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Online Points: 21186 |
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Based on those pics, Id say that the 208 is most likely a pancake prop.
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cphase
Gold Member Joined: May-11-2010 Location: Newnan, GA Status: Offline Points: 795 |
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Mine arrived today also. Will post picks of the leading edge/hub later this evening. |
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6157 |
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Perfect!
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cphase
Gold Member Joined: May-11-2010 Location: Newnan, GA Status: Offline Points: 795 |
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Here is my new prop. As you can see from the second picture the leading edges hold the hub up just a bit.
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62 wood
Grand Poobah Joined: February-19-2005 Location: NW IL Status: Offline Points: 4527 |
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(moved this to compare with the 540 above.) |
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cphase
Gold Member Joined: May-11-2010 Location: Newnan, GA Status: Offline Points: 795 |
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Dang nice prop Steve!!!
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62 wood
Grand Poobah Joined: February-19-2005 Location: NW IL Status: Offline Points: 4527 |
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Both are PRETTY NICE!!!!!! |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Online Points: 21186 |
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But they may run pretty different! If I were you Steve, I'd hold out for a 540 unless you got a good enough deal on it that its worth taking the chance on (and you can recoup the $$ if you were to sell it used). The pancakes perform very differently than the traditional Acmes, and not in a good way, IMHO. Pancake vs. conventional Acme (similar pitch/diam) turned our BFN into a 55-56mph boat vs. 61-62mph. The nose dive was hard and borderline violent on a hull that is otherwise pretty docile. While its doubtful you'd see such an extreme difference, Id still be nervous about running it on a boat that runs naturally bow high, even with a stock powerplant. The faster (stock) 2nd gens can flirt with 50mph and I wouldnt be surprised if your bowtie powered '73 is amongst them. Thats not a speed where you want something dangerous to happen! Just a word of caution. Im sure it would be worlds better than that ancient Federal in terms of holeshot and smoothness... and if you never plan to push the throttle down further than 45mph then you'll probably be fine. But if it were me, Id spend the extra to get a 540. Just saying! |
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7954 |
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That 4 blade would be ideal if you put the tower back on the boat. Is the 540 a 13x12 RH? I put one of those on my brother's Century and it was a huge improvment over its old Federal 13x14.
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6157 |
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Tim's boats are just so fast they pick out all the problems with Props ;). Acme should employ you for R and D huh?
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62 wood
Grand Poobah Joined: February-19-2005 Location: NW IL Status: Offline Points: 4527 |
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Now you have me a "bit" worried. While I dont run extended WOT, I want to be able to do it and not worry about potential negative consequences.
With the original Federal 13 x 14, both speedo's were just south of the 50 mph range. The Ellis 13 x 14 lost 3 to 4 mph... running in the 46 -47 mph range. The 73 is certainly capable of flirting with the mid century mark. I hope what ever prop I end up with will keep me in the high upper 40's, if not at the 50 mph range. When I spoke with Acme, Jim said I was splitting hairs as to performance between the two, but obviously, he is probably not familiar with the high speed handling characteristics of the hull. Dang, now you really have me wondering.... in your estimation, what hull would be a good application for a 208? |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Online Points: 21186 |
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Bruce, yes 540 = RH 3-blade, 13x12, .080 cup
Zach, Bill Weeks used to provide me with test props to try... I havent reached out much to Acme since he retired. I would gladly cash a check if they sent one though! |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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Steve, I'm watching this thread to see what your thoughts are on the 208 after you try it. That's what I have on my boat, and it seems to perform very well for my purposes. Which are wakeboarding and slalom. I get between 42-43 and about 4,300 rpms, but that's with less power and a slower/heavier hull than you have. No complaints, but I also have nothing to compare it too.
I know Horkin, who never really comes around any more, was running a 208 on his warmed up Martinique and liked it. Not sure what he was getting for numbers though. I do know he was a lot closer to the 50mph mark than me, if not past it. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Online Points: 21186 |
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Steve, not that I dont believe you, but those Airguides are only as accurate as theyre adjusted. Get a GPS on that boat! If its a slower running hull (some 2nd gen SN's run nose-lower and are only good for 44-45mph) then you may not lose much performance with the 208.
Ive been somewhat disappointed with Acme's tech advice since Bill left (he was their lead applications engineer). No one else seems to have the same experience with the props- at least not the ones specific to Correct Crafts. Ive seen some interesting recommendations come out of them. Remember, Acme simply cant trial every prop on every potential application- they rely on customer feedback for their database. Along with all of the good data they get, I would imagine a lot of it comes from "Average Joes" who may not be as careful to collect good consistent data (accurate RPM and speed data, holding all variables constant when assessing differences between props, etc). I think the best advice youre going to get is going to come from folks passionate about props and these specific boats... ie, right here on CCFan. Brian, the NWZ runs so nose-planted that Ive found that the prop style has much less effect on running attitude (and thus, top end) than the nose-high hulls. The pancake 1868 returned "in-family" performance numbers based on its diameter/pitch on my '90, versus the "normal" Acmes. I wouldnt be surprised if you were to pick up 1mph with a 540 though, based on the lower pitch, 3-blade vs. 4, etc though. I suspect Steve would see a bigger difference on his older hull. |
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62 wood
Grand Poobah Joined: February-19-2005 Location: NW IL Status: Offline Points: 4527 |
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Tim,
I dont mean to "brag" about the speed, I never had a working GPS to use. I do now. I understand the actual speed and what the speedos report could be two different numbers... but thats all I have to go on for now. Other "problem" is the tach didnt work, (which reminds me to give Dale a call), so I dont know where the engine is spinning either. The combination of no gps or tach ,makes it kind of hard to establish a solid base line to start with. I will keep watching for that "smokin' 540 deal". One good thing, I still have a few months before I can even begin to think of getting her wet. I think I will start with the existing Ellis... gps and tach her and go from there. |
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6157 |
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I am really curious to see what the 208 does so I can have better data for future potential customers. The 208's are cheap as I have had those on the shelf for a while. I just cant sell the props with Delta in the mix. If that 208 turns out good that might be an option for the 86 Chris' friends up in Iowa just purchased.
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storm34
Grand Poobah Joined: November-03-2008 Location: Dexter Iowa Status: Offline Points: 4492 |
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You mean this gem??? |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13515 |
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Hotter than any orange boat! |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Online Points: 21186 |
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I would bet that the 208 would be a better prop for a 2001 than a 2gen SN... Larger/heavier/slightly lower attitude hull that wont run more than 45-46 under ideal conditions (with a stock 351w and a 540).
Steve, I know you werent bragging... and Airguides can actually be surprisingly accurate across the entire band, IF they are calibrated. Gotta find out if they are, first. Its too bad that the older ones are so hard to adjust... they were dirt simple by the late 70's (hex screw out the face, later a finger knob). Obviously you need SOME data to go on- if you had either a known RPM or speed, combined with a known prop (Fed 13x13 or Acme 540) there are enough people running that combo on your hull to fill in the blanks. Cant do it with too many unknowns- like that 208 or Ellis. |
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62 wood
Grand Poobah Joined: February-19-2005 Location: NW IL Status: Offline Points: 4527 |
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good one HW!
FOR SALE: One New, Never Used, Still in Box, Very Very Pretty, Bright and Shiney, prop |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13515 |
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Steve, I don't think that 208 will kill you if you are operating the boat in a matter it was intended for.
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Online Points: 21186 |
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Ive seen 2nd gens run 50 out of the box (actually 30+ years old and all stock!), so theyre no joke. CC didnt put speed limiters on them to keep them below 36mph. While they *might*not be far enough up the performance scale to do weird things due to a pancake, its not a totally outlandish possibility. At best, the boat will probably underperform slightly as compared to the proven 540- at least thats what my experince with the pancakes would lead me to believe. If paying new prop prices(even if nicely discounted), spend a little more to go with the proven prop- that was my point.
If the 208 is yours and un-returnable, then give it a try. Having a known quantity along for a comparo would be nice too (like a 540) to be able to better qualify the difference in performance. |
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6157 |
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That white boat was an undercover operation between Me and Yours Truly Chris Mars.
I was very sad I didn't have a buyer for my boat or that would be in my shop right now. My dad was desprately trying to pawn off his MC to go buy that white beauty. I'm glad I could help out Chris' friends and check it out and help out the owner Jeff to get it sold. Jeff also has a restored 84 that was he and his wifes first boat. Its easily the nicest preserved 86 I've seen so far. |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13515 |
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Actually they all have speed limiters, your hand. |
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62 wood
Grand Poobah Joined: February-19-2005 Location: NW IL Status: Offline Points: 4527 |
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Tim , as always I do apperciate your (and all the other CC guru's) input! Most of you have wayyyy more experience than I do.
For the time being, I'm planning to keep the 208. (unless someone REALLY needs one! ) It would be interesting to see how it stacks up with a 540. Maybe at GL or somehwere we can do a comparison WITH GPS and tach. Talking of pancake props. What I see in "height" difference between the 540 Jeff posted and my 208 looks to be pretty minimal (1/8" or so?). Makes that much handling difference? |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Online Points: 21186 |
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HW, nothing wrong with that position, but neither is wanting to go fast just because you can. Im not tired of it- at least not yet! Dont you have a 380hp 351w ready to go in your MQ though?
Some people may think that building a 50+mph (or 60+mph) ski boat is silly... thats ok, its not for everyone. I think its silly to suggest that a (new and expensive) prop will be just fine- "oh but dont try and go fast with it". At least if that was one of the reasons they bought it in the first place! But thats just me. |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13515 |
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That's it. LET'S GO!!!!
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storm34
Grand Poobah Joined: November-03-2008 Location: Dexter Iowa Status: Offline Points: 4492 |
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I don't think anyone witnessed our GL speed run out to the main body in Tim's BFN.
4 of us Iowa guys were tail weight when Tim punched the throttle over a set of rollers left from a 20' cruiser. I remember seeing the cruiser trolling along followed by the bow of the boat in the air and landing rather abruptly. That's probably the only time I thought seat belts would be useful in boats. Fun ride, but I'm surprised his rear seat vinyl isn't stained brown. |
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storm34
Grand Poobah Joined: November-03-2008 Location: Dexter Iowa Status: Offline Points: 4492 |
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Hopefully it'll be at GL with the new owners. If they can't make it I'm sure they'll trade me for the 96 that weekend. Zach was at it again with this deal. An "oh, by the way" turned into another Correct Craft in our extended ski family. I'm sure I'll spend some hours behind the wheel and at the end of a rope with this boat. Mark didn't know he has a salesman in the parts department! |
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