Gel Spraying Techniques |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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Bill you might want to make one more stand that you can adjust some. Your going to have to move them to get the spot under the current stands. Or just extend the boom on your hoist and then lift at the lift ring on the bow and then stern one at a time. Looking good though keep it up.
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David F
Platinum Member Joined: June-11-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1770 |
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Pretty stands do not matter, function does. I am a bit worried for your safety that the stands appear to not have any fore/aft bracing. I am a bit concerned for the potential of the boat racking forward or rearward, especially if you remove the center blocking.
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SkiBum
Gold Member Joined: November-17-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 587 |
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This is a quick fix to the lateral brace issue on the stands. I will just have to make new stands with a wider base. My work days have increased from 12 to 16 hours a day. I am pressed for time for working on the boat. I managed to grind most of the driver side gel off. |
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SkiBum
Gold Member Joined: November-17-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 587 |
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For the blue color I bought a gallon of nuetral gelcote and a 5oz jar of this blue stuff. There were no instructions. Do I just pour the blue stuff into the gallon can and mix the whole gallon at one time?
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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I would mix the colorant in all at one time because then you will not have to worry about all the color matching. It can sit forever like that because you haven't catalized it yet. Is the 5oz recomended for the whole gal.?
Wow Bill, You are sure making progress!! But now the fairing will slow things down some what. |
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David F
Platinum Member Joined: June-11-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1770 |
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8122... is right. Mix a batch of gel in a sufficient quantity that is more than what you think you will use. If you have to mix more later, the color will NOT match. Use more or less colorant depending on the tone you are after. There probably is a maximum colorant to gel ratio, but I cannot remember what that might be. A gallon can handle the entire jar. I assume it is a jar that fits in the palm of your hand...say about 3-4 oz.
Your entire boat will use more than one gallon of gel. If you need to mix more than one gallon, then add the same amount of colorant to each gallon, then mix the gallons together and then you return the gel to the original gallon containers. Trust me on this...buy more than you think you will need. Alot of the gel is wasted for many reasons...cleaning equipment, not using all of the catalyzed batched, etc. |
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SkiBum
Gold Member Joined: November-17-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 587 |
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David,
The primary color will be white. I have two and a half gallons on hand. The stripe will be blue. I have one gallon of nuetral and the 5oz jar of colorant. The US Composites guy said to pour the entire gallon into another container, then mix in the colorant, stir thoroughly, then put it back in the origional container. I know just the white gelcote work I did inside the boat on the gunnel consumed half a gallon of white gelcote. How much do you think it will take to do the boat? |
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David F
Platinum Member Joined: June-11-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1770 |
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That is hard for me to say with certainty. I assume you are using pure pre-mixed white? If so, the color from can to can will be consistent enough to not worry. I am guessing you will ultimately use 5-6 gallons.
If one gallon of blue is enough, I am not sure of the need to mix in a seperate container and then return to the original container. Seems like a wasted step to me. If mixing more than one gallon, then sure that is the way to do it. |
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87BFN owner
Grand Poobah Joined: August-25-2006 Location: Saline, MI Status: Offline Points: 2194 |
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skibum that is exactly why I didn't try to do the repairs on my bfn myself. My work schedule is all over the place. One week it forty hours the next it's 120 hours. My wife hates it.. Then to throw a boat project in the mix, and have to have it done in time to use. No way.. Your wife must be an amzing woman..
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boat dr
Grand Poobah Joined: June-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4245 |
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87BFN, she gonna look good when she comes home tho..............boat dr
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87BFN owner
Grand Poobah Joined: August-25-2006 Location: Saline, MI Status: Offline Points: 2194 |
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Boat doc, Eric is doing a great numbe ron her. I wont hardly be sure it's my boat when he's done with it. Well I will know it's mine but just saying. The pics just make me want to go down and check it out right now before he's even done with it. But I couldn't do that to him.
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SkiBum
Gold Member Joined: November-17-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 587 |
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Managed to get a little work done today. Grinded off all the old gelcote on the driver side from stern to bow and halfway from front to back on the bottom. The passenger side is grinded to the front of the windshield none on the bottom yet. The stern was done some time ago. After three coats of epoxy resin (scrubbing with clean water and a green scratch pad each time) I applied a thin layer of Bondo on a small area. Once it cured I sanded. Turned out really good, so I applied Bondo to the remainder of the stern today. Should be able to sand in a few hours. |
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farmer
Senior Member Joined: July-23-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 442 |
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Skibum,how many people are working on that boat of yours? You're making great progress.Keep plugging. Farmer |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Bill, What did you end up doing about a spray gun? Did you need to get a new one or did you get larger fluid and air caps for a exsisting?
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SkiBum
Gold Member Joined: November-17-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 587 |
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I am the only one working on the boat. SkiBum Jr, SkiBum Juniorette, and Mrs. SkiBum don't want any part of the project. Well, Mrs. SkiBum has been very generous with the check book.
I actually bought one of those gelcote spray guns from US Composites. No need to thin the gelcote. Easy cleanup, just wipe the plate and swab the nozzle. Haven't yet figured out the best PSI and other adjustments. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Wow, I'll have to look at the gun.
I took a look at the gun. It sure looks simple. How's the spray pattern? It needs quite allot of psi per the stats so I would think it needs lots of air. How's the overspray? Keep me informed because I know what a pain it is to clean a conventional gun. Good luck and keep up the fantastic work. |
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87BFN owner
Grand Poobah Joined: August-25-2006 Location: Saline, MI Status: Offline Points: 2194 |
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Skibum I know how you feel about the Mrs. when it comes to the checkbook. Should have seen the look on her face when I told her I was odering $2300 manifolds for the boat. Then she just smiled and said I am going shopping, be back late. I just smiled and laughed what else can you do.
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SkiBum
Gold Member Joined: November-17-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 587 |
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Here are the most recent pics. Grinded off the remaining gel from the left side of the boat. Now all that is left is under the boat, bow, and stern. Bow and stern will be easy. Under the boat sucks. As for that spray gun from US Composites. It is incredibly easy to maintain. There is a removable disk with a hole for the nozzle. Simply run the included brush through the nozzle and wipe the surface of the disk. I bought a pack of disposable "yogurt" cups that clamp to the gun. I have been trying to use 60psi, the lowest recommended. Any lower and the material does not want to come out. The gun gives a nice circular pattern that builds thickness quickly. My complaint is that from the high pressure it seems to create excessive orange peel. |
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boat dr
Grand Poobah Joined: June-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4245 |
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Jim, those shopping sprees can be expensive,but divorce even worse. Karen say's the same thing,she calls it girls day out. That Mom /Daughter thing. I am happy to do my time looking for daughter a car.
Speaking of Hi-Tek I an going polished too..boat dr |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Bill, Maybe you shoult try reducing the gel with some styrene and see what happens. You will never get rid of the orange peel totally but it may help.
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SkiBum
Gold Member Joined: November-17-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 587 |
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It is worth a try, perhaps by thinning the gelcote it would somehow flow more smoothly. I would prefer to have all of the grinding, filling, and sanding finished before I start spraying. So it will be some time before I am spraying again.
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SkiBum
Gold Member Joined: November-17-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 587 |
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On the side of the hull I used 26 grit fiber disks to grind the gelcoat to the glass. There are numerous stress cracks in the hull. I repaired the stringers and floor first. So I think that will prevent further cracking. After grinding the side of the hull I scrubbed it with a green scratch pad and clean water. Then I wiped it dry with paper towels. Next, I cranked up the heat in the garage to 85f. Then I applied a generous coating of vinyl ester resin. I chose this instead of epoxy for two reasons; first, the polyester gelcote and epoxy are not a good combination; second, I was hoping the vinyl ester resin would have more of a chemical bond seeping into the cracks. Tonight I applied a thin layer of Bondo to the side of the hull. Once sanded, I will have a very smooth, level surface that will bond well with the polyester gelcote. Or, I wasted a lot of effort. |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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well lets hope all that effort was for a great end result, Keep plugging away at it little over two weeks till spring Bill.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Bill, Have you considered a coat of vinylester on top of the Bondo as a seal coat? I know the stuff is quite porous.
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SkiBum
Gold Member Joined: November-17-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 587 |
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I imagine that would assist in the adhesion of the polyester gelcote and perhaps seal in the bondo...sounds like a valid idea. Is it over-kill? I know that not much Bondo will remain once I sand. I really dont know. Never done this before.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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I have never used Bondo because I was always worried about its water absorbsion. Always stuck with the epoxy (then vinylester as a "conversion" before the gel) I know you will end up with quite a mil build with the gel but I think it will be sort of like painting a repaired wall without priming the patch first. The paint sucks into the area because it wasn't sealed. I know you will not be left with much Bondo after fairing but you may want to think about it to create a even surface before the gel. I know , it's another step that will involve time but you've done so much already.
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David F
Platinum Member Joined: June-11-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1770 |
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The only chemical bonding that will or has occurred was the day the boat was made. After that, all repairs are a mechanical bond whether using polyester or epoxy resin. Epoxy resin is by far the better adhesive between the two and that is what you need. The gelcoat will stick to the bondo without issue. You will not notice any difference between the areas that have bondo and the areas that do not. As far as bondo absorbing moisture, I never thought or read or heard that this is a problem. However, if the boat is stored in the water for long periods of time, I suppose this could be a problem as moisture will eventually find its way through gelcoat if the boat is left in the water. This is the main reason for gelcoat blisters. But, bondo is simply thickened polyester resin...so to me it will behave just like gelcoat which is also mainly polyester resin. So, in summary, the only place for polyester resin is the bondo and gelcoat; otherwise, stick (pun intended) wtih epoxy resin, especially when trying to seal the composite cracks. |
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David F
Platinum Member Joined: June-11-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1770 |
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This is not an issue...the gelcoat does not absorb into the bondo and if the bondo is faired properly, it will be impossible to tell where the bondo is once the gelcoat is applied. Remember, Skibum is using bondo as a final fairing, which means it is being used to fill minor low spots in the fiberglass due to the imprecision of grinding. He coated the entire surface as he does not know where those low spots are. He will sand through most of bondo using a long sanding block to bridge the low spots. Bondo is must easier to sand than thickened epoxy resin. Furthermore, bondo is a proven fairing compound (not just by me) when repairing fiberglass boats. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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David, Thanks for the input. Like I said, I have never used the Bondo on fiberglass. I do use the epoxy with a fairing type filler / thickener that is as easy to sand as the Bondo.
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SkiBum
Gold Member Joined: November-17-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 587 |
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I suppose this is why people like me should not be allowed to use power tools. Kinda like giving a driver license to a six year old.
I still have not ground off the gel from all of the bottom. Once I do that is this the correct sequence? 1. Thin epoxy resin 2. Vinyl Ester resin 3. Bondo 4. Gelcote Do I need to sand all the way to the glass and then apply resin on the areas I already used vinyl ester resin then start over? |
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