302 teardown |
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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Looks good. What happened to your old carb? Did you have a Holley 4160 before? Let me know if you want to sell the old one if you have one.
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Are you bringing it to GL Chris? Looks great.
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horkn
Platinum Member Joined: September-10-2007 Location: Cedarburg, Wi Status: Offline Points: 1511 |
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There really are no advantages to running points, outside of there being a slightly better chance of being able to get points to limp you home versus if an EI goes it can simply be dead.
Most of the failed ei's are pertronix units, which seem to be a lot less reliable in marine use than they are in automotive apps. |
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78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior
GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21186 |
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Ive got dead modules of all flavors (Mallory, Prestolite, Pertronix) in my basement, so Im not sold on all non-Pertronix being dead reliable. I do think the Mallory and Prestolites are better than the Pertronix... but I would not be overly excited to run any of them as a drop in kit.
Yes, you can get a brand new Mallory marine points distributor... theyre $189 at Summit. Theyre cheaper to buy and cheaper to maintain. I just put one in Sage's Mustang the weekend you were in CT. The curve still isnt quite right- its not getting full advance- so I wouldnt expect to bolt it on and go. I dont believe Im alone in this, as Alan struggled to get his curved properly as well. Ive had the best experience with the DUI's, but thats a lofty price to pay ($380), so Id be inclined to drop the old distributor in there and see how it goes. Id probably do the same for the carb, though Id guess you *might* benefit from a 600cfm over the stock 450cfm. See how it runs and get back to us before plunking down the cash! Save your money for a 2nd gen Ski Tique instead. I did notice you said you werent planning on bringing it to GL... I hope I misunderstood... I think it would be a mistake to bring anything else! |
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MAN - GA
Senior Member Joined: July-09-2009 Location: Cumming, GA Status: Offline Points: 298 |
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Chris,
For what its worth I sent my original Mallory points dist. back to Mallory for a rebuild - they quoted me $100 + shipping on the phone and gave a 12mn warranty. What ended up happening was they sent me back a brand new complete points dist. for the quoted price within 2 weeks. They claimed they didn't have internal parts back in the warehouse to match the original dist. housing size. Also why they were at it they went over all the specifics on boat weight, intended use, engine displacement, prop size, RPM ranges, etc. and gave me option on advance curves to preset the dist. and also sent an advance spring kit back to me if I wanted to modify things myself. Overall very helpful - you might look into it and give it a try b/c when I was going to buy the new dist. from Summit they had a 3-4wk lead time claiming they were made to order distributors |
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
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I don’t know about pushing on people to bring boats to GL that they don’t have running yet Benjamin, if I was you I would get that barefoot making waves before I started preaching.
On a more serious note, I do have a 302 DUI I would be happy to donate to the cause, as it is never going to see any use here. Tim you mention it as an option does that mean you can buy a reverse rotation DUI ? I don’t know that I have ever checked. Chris for you to use that DUI you would need to source a reverse rotation dist gear that will fit on the shaft of a DUI made for a 302 and have it sent to me at 16 Paul St Auburn NY 13021. I will drill it and press it on for you and send out the assembly. Like I said at tims that DUI is showing a little corrosion but it has a blue cap and last I knew worked like a champ. Or you can trade it with the standard gear on it to Benjamin for Sages fancy new one that he seems not quite happy with. I wouldn’t be crazy about upgrading the carb at this point though.. bigger isn’t always better. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21186 |
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I wouldnt swap the carb yet either- but there are several warmed up 302's running 600cfm's that seem to be doing just fine... just something to keep in mind.
Performance Distributors makes the note on their website that adding a reverse rotation distributor gear will add some nominal fee, though Im not sure that note is current. I want to say that someone here mentioned they had to source their own gear. We swapped gears on Sage's new Mallory (still not curved quite right) with a few basic hand tools on the dock, so thats not too big a deal. Summit sells at least one or 2 RR gears if you need to source your own... but you'll want to know the DUI shaft diameter before pulling the trigger. Having Mallory go through your old dist is an option if thats what youve got... but I suspect that Tique originally came with a clip down Prestolite. |
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storm34
Grand Poobah Joined: November-03-2008 Location: Dexter Iowa Status: Offline Points: 4492 |
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My biggest concern at the moment is getting the cam broken in and making sure it will run well enough for the first 20 min. If the dist and carb I have now will work then I'll go ahead and put everything back on and break in the motor then swap out parts after.
I guess I'm a little illiterate when it comes to if these older parts work well with the new parts. I'd like to get everything back together before the 4th so I can maybe have it on the water for the weekend. Then maybe I'd think about bringing it up to GL, but I'll be taking the 96 for sure. I'd rather have the bigger boat on that big of lake. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21186 |
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Although Joe is right about me not having my GL boat ready quite yet, and thus being in no position to comment, Ill put in a few more than my deserved 2 cents worth, ha. Ive had both my '90 and Skier on on GL (and LG). Both bodies of water are really unsuitable for either boat. That being said, if the wind is up, give me the Skier any day. Get the speed up to ~15-18mph and the bow stays up enough to keep you dry- you just ride the waves as best you can. There is no such sweet spot on my '90- its a jarring, wet ride no matter how fast (or slow) you go- the penalty of having a modern hull with no bow rise. That, and I really want to see how that Tique runs! |
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storm34
Grand Poobah Joined: November-03-2008 Location: Dexter Iowa Status: Offline Points: 4492 |
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Well maybe I'll drag it up there and we can do a break in clinic while we're there.....
I'm going to clean up my carb this week at some point and get everything hooked back up with fuel lines and wiring. Then the dist, plugs and wiring will be next. Just so happens Dad's new pontoon furnature came in last week so I'm also in the process of tearing everything off the toon and putting it all back together. Its becoming a much bigger job than I anticipated since were doing new carpet, helm...the whole nine yards. That HAS to be done by the 4th or I'll be in the dog house with dad. Then the Ski Tique will get broken in. |
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81nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5781 |
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Chris, Use the carb and dist you have now. To set the basic timing just get #1 cylinder to TDC of the Compression stroke, make sure the pointer is at zero on the balancer and set the dizzy so #1 wire tower is directly over the rotor. That will get you very close and it should fire right up. Leave the dizzy a little loose in case you have to move it to get it to fire but it should fire right off for you or you have a problem. Your going to break in at 2000rpm so don't even worry about carb issues or tuning, just start it, bring it to 2k with the idle adjust screw and make sure you have water pumping. Once broken in you can set timing and mess with your carb. |
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You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails
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storm34
Grand Poobah Joined: November-03-2008 Location: Dexter Iowa Status: Offline Points: 4492 |
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Where does time go?
I had plans to get it running last weekend but a fever of 102 on friday put me under the weather most the weekend and changed those plans quickly. I'm hoping to get this thing started this week, but still have a few odds and ends to wrap up. I finished up all the wiring this weekend and was able to bump it over once just to see if everything was connected properly. I must have a bad connection somewhere as I don't have any reads from the gauges. When I turn the ignition to run a few gauges peg but I have no accessories (lights, horn, blower, bilge pump) Any thoughts? I am guessing it has to be somewhere on the back of the motor, maybe a relay of some kind Going to drop in the dist tonight and get the plug wires done with the intention of breaking in the cam this week at some point. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Chris,
No relay! Double check all your wiring at the gauges. You should be feeding 12 volts to all of them. Then, from there each will have a "S" terminal meaning the sender. That S terminal/wire goes back to each respective sender. The ground connection at each gauge is simply for the lighting. Since they all peg, I have a feeling you have the two mixed up (sender and ground) You do have a wiring diagram correct? |
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storm34
Grand Poobah Joined: November-03-2008 Location: Dexter Iowa Status: Offline Points: 4492 |
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Pete, I figured it has to be something coming from the back of the motor since I haven't touched any of the gauges and they were all functioning properly before I pulled the motor out. I'm thinking there isn't anything being sent to them since that was all pulled off the motor when the rebuild happened.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Chris,
Were any changes made to the wiring harness/connectors at the engine? How are you on the volt meter? And, do you have that wiring diagram I've posted several times? If not, I'll dig it out of my photobucket account again. Not a problem!! |
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storm34
Grand Poobah Joined: November-03-2008 Location: Dexter Iowa Status: Offline Points: 4492 |
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I'd love to see the diagram! I'm sure I've stumbled on it once or twice but don't have it handy.
Nothing was changed, I simply marked all the connections before I pulled everything and placed them back on when we dropped the motor back in. I didn't get out a volt meter last weekend, should be able to check everything out tonight. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Chris,
Something has changed!!! All the gauges pegging are telling me that!! Ok, print this out. |
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storm34
Grand Poobah Joined: November-03-2008 Location: Dexter Iowa Status: Offline Points: 4492 |
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Will do Pete.
Headed out to the lake now, I'll see if I can track this down tonight after I get the distributor dropped in. Hopefully I make some progress tonight! |
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storm34
Grand Poobah Joined: November-03-2008 Location: Dexter Iowa Status: Offline Points: 4492 |
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Well I tracked down the wiring problem last night. Turns out two grounds weren't connected, must have missed them a few weeks ago. Thats sure a good feeling that all the gauges and instruments work properly now.
I was also able to drop in the distributor. Had to roll the motor over to get it to drop in the rest the way and of course, I had to do an 180 after finally getting it to drop down. Don't mind the plug wiring, still need to wrap that up this afternoon. And Pete told me on the phone to be sure to upload pictures so I won't let him down! Still need to clean up the carb and get rid of the nasty paint from the PO. Just another Iowa morning Guide poles back on this morning as well. I'll grab some black tubing from the nursery when I head back over to the lake. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21186 |
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Ha, disregard the last statement in my email! Glad you got the wiring sorted.
Boat is looking good- cant wait to hear how it runs. Did I ever ask what the story is with the older windshield? |
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storm34
Grand Poobah Joined: November-03-2008 Location: Dexter Iowa Status: Offline Points: 4492 |
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Thanks Tim, I put that windshield on last summer since my original was busted up on one side. Side panel wasn't connected to the front so it would flop around if you weren't careful. Couldn't get it back together so I picked this one up from Mike Nunke off his Stang. I'll use some of these parts to make the original complete and then powder coat the whole thing.
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storm34
Grand Poobah Joined: November-03-2008 Location: Dexter Iowa Status: Offline Points: 4492 |
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Can anyone tell me if there is a fuel pump rod on this motor or does the arm of the fuel pump simply ride on the cam?
I have all the ignition ready to fire and am getting proper spark but no fuel up to the carb. Fuel filter/Separator is full but nothing in the hard line between the pump and carb. I didn't crank the motor with the hardline off the pump to see if it was actually pumping fuel, but the hard line was completely dry so I'm guessing it's not pumping anything. Guessing I didn't install the pump correctly? |
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kapla
Grand Poobah Joined: March-27-2008 Location: BA, Argentina Status: Offline Points: 6148 |
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arm rides on the cam.
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<a href="">1992 ski nautique
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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i recently know of someone that put the pump on the top side of the eccentric and ran the bolts home....wiped the cam
goes in at the bottem and you lift up |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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storm34
Grand Poobah Joined: November-03-2008 Location: Dexter Iowa Status: Offline Points: 4492 |
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Finally running and cam broken in! I've got a video up on Facebook from my phone...headed out to ski then I'll throw one of youtube so I can post here!!
Oil change and I'll be ready for a water test tomorrow!! |
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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Great job Chris!
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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65 'cuda
Platinum Member Joined: July-12-2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Status: Offline Points: 1091 |
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Waiting for a full report!
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storm34
Grand Poobah Joined: November-03-2008 Location: Dexter Iowa Status: Offline Points: 4492 |
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Well its taken me almost all summer to get this thing together, back in the boat and to fire, but on the bright side it's now running!!
It took a while to get fuel up to the pump and into the carb. I ended up filling the line from the pump to the carb and then used a mustard bottle to spit fuel into the carb. Once I finally had fuel I was having trouble getting the motor to spin (timing was way too fast). Set to 10 degrees and it started right up and ran smooth as silk. I had some help from my neighbor who spent 20 years building stock cars and a ski buddy's dad who is pretty savvy. The biggest hold up was me not knowing what the heck I was doing. Pretty scary thought to start this thing up when you've got some $$ tied up and the chance at ruining the cam! What a thrill to hear her run again. Need to tie up some loose ends and then get a water test done! |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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storm34
Grand Poobah Joined: November-03-2008 Location: Dexter Iowa Status: Offline Points: 4492 |
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Picked up a filter and 5 more quarts of VR1. Should be able to head back out to the lake around lunch time today and get the oil changed. I want to double check my running gear and then we're ready to hit the water!! I'll be sure to get some performance numbers and video uploaded if we get out on the water!
Picture Pat swears the magic number has been 50 this summer...$50 here, $50 there on little things to keep us on the water. So it's fitting I spend another 50 on an oil change today, right!? Welcome to boating, huh?! I owe a big thank you to Tim Benjamin, Reid, Pete, Billy, Eric, Steve Workman and everyone who has chimed in on this thread or helped me along the way! Hopefully I won't have too many more questions to bug you with, but I honestly couldn't have done this without your help!!! Thanks again guys!!! |
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