learning to barefoot

I've seen more than 1 of those knee braces disappear into the depths too

GlassSeeker wrote: Larry, I would focus on LLBD, it can be very demanding on it's own. If you can get behind a Superflyhigh that will help your early success, just know it takes LONGER to get up longline, you have to plane some. I need to see video of your boom backdeeps.

Andy, Didn't mean to sound like I was minimizing LLBDs, just think I am equipped to start working on them. Have dabbled, but no concerted effort yet. I am supposed to be hooking up with a colleague of my son's this summer. He is a retired, but accomplished footer who said he could give me some guidance this summer so I am anxious to work with him as I have never had anyone to serve as a coach on a regular or repeat/prolonged basis.

Here is my most recent back deep (last sunday)



I have not had much opportunity to work on my backwards the past couple years and I think I have done more backwards this spring than the last two years combined. I haven't videoed my back deep in years, so this one was informative. I can see a few adjustments like: bend more at waist, feet closer and toes pointed back instead of out, which I think will reduce spray. Would you concur? Anyway, most of the start is obscured with spray so I don't know what you will be able to learn from it. But do note, my rope is a little longer and my boom is not real high, so hopefully not a HUGE step to LL. Obviously I don't have a SFH on my little tique, but I do have a regular fly-hi, which I will be using to work on my LLBDs. Any comments are welcome. Thanks for that B2F thread, that's helpful.

Yeah, Kevin, I hear you, especially about the lean away/defensive thing. That seems to be characteristic of my form and I haven't been able to get away from it, that's why I suggested the need to bend at my waist more, maybe lower the handle position a bit. Not sure why I was wobbling, tho it might be my feet fighting each other because they are point out instead of back. Also, I am hoping feet closer together (you think they are right next to each other until you see a video and you can't believe how far apart they are, but I hear that is a normal reaction)will reduce the swaying/wobbles. Unfortunately, as I indicated above, I don't have anyone to point these things out to me, so unless I video, I have no idea what I am doing, and I haven't videoed in years. Hoping this guy will be able to help me, we just haven't had a chance to get together yet this year, and now our whole lake is a no wake zone till water levels go down a bit.

Good info guys. Thanks. I do have this one pic from a couple years ago that tells me I can get my form right, just not sure why I am having trouble achieving this on a regular basis.



Practice, practice, practice, and that's the one thing I haven't been getting enough of.

the pic shows from the spray that you are favoring that right foot, just like in the video. no big deal.

once you try LLBD you will probably still favor that right foot so it will send you to the left side of the wake and it will be easier for you to hold yourself in the curl.


when you decide to try the LLBD make it the first thing you do that day(skiing wise) it's gonna take alot of energy ...then whatever happens just move back to the boom and do some backdeeps there and work on one foots...because then when you make the LLBD you can pop off a one foot or two as well!

larry-

just watched your vid again and you can see that from about 15 seconds in you begin to get straighter and straighter til you "get stood up" as we call it. that's where the bobblyness comes from---the straightening of the body then the handle gets away from the butt and its all over.
(can also be some gas pedaling--since you feeling like you are rocking back and forth)

you really have to stay down longer on the longline, people tend to want to get up so fast that they pop up just as the driver is accelerating and they get stood up and pulled right out the back ass over tea kettle.

you have to stay bent over with head down to resist the acceleration---much more than on the boom.


As for the favoring a foot, I do it all the time. I hate skiing 50/50. on a LLBD you must favor one or the other unless you want to get up in the wash which is just fine too. you can't ski next to the wake 50/50 or you'll get pulled in, you have to cut out a little to stay out in the curl. Don't get wigged out on the 50/50...practice one foots.

skiers point of view

Alright Larry just go for it and see what happens.

Edit: Please video

Both but definitely more A than B.

Grab the boat and go find some less skier-unfriendly water.

GlassSeeker wrote: Larry I'm surprised the guy knew it was a boom.

He didn't. We were "side-skiing"

GlassSeeker wrote: One thing we have noticed recently is that concentrating on a more legs together backdeep, planting only a little wider than shoulderswidth, allows for the bending at the waist and does not leave the skier spread eagle on the water, it allows the leverage to help pick you up and reduces the strain on your body during a backdeep.

I got over this hurdle some time ago. When I was just learning back deeps, all the early guidance I got, (verbal or written) was spread wide at first, bring them in some, then push up with chest. It worked on occasion, but rarely and really lent itself to major groin pulls, which I suffered on more than one occasion. Tip that cured me and led me to hit 9/10 back deep attempts came from Brad (Barracuda) who told me to start, once planted and up to speed, by simultaneously bringing legs in, toes down and legs down, in one smooth motion. Huge difference and near 100% success ratio after that.

i'm guilty of not videoing a ton of footing lately, sorry.

here's a little somethin somethin

don't ever stop playing on the boom

Steve: as they say, "you are right where you need to be." I went through the exact same thing. Andy will disagree with me, since he taught me the one-foot, but at 200 lbs, 40 mph might be a little slow. Now you do not want to substitute speed for technique (ever!), there is a case, at least for me, to bump the speed up a bit until you get the technique down. Try 42, if your boat can give that to you.

OK, here is my take: you are getting spray because you are plowing. Meaning, you are riding the heel of your foot. you need to get your foot flat. If you had video, I am almost certain when you lift your foot, your butt drops and your shoulders drop back. Thus your foot inclines and you ride the heel. You have to combat this. Before you lift your foot "engage your core," that is tighten your stomach. [this is a David Small technique]. Drive your shoulders forward. DO NOT PULL ON THE HANDLE TO DO THIS! We are talking only a few inches. It might feel more like a crunch type sit-up. Also drive the ball of your foot down into the water. This action is mere fractions of an inch, bending at the ankle like a gas pedal or pushing down with the foot. The foot and ankle movements are slight, not gross, like everything in barefooting. These should help with the plowing; these will take a lot of time to get right and to work. I mean like 30 to 50 runs, especially if you have a stubborn reverse foot like me.

None of this works if you aren't tranferring your weight onto the ski foot. Forget turning the handle on the weight shift, a lot of people teach that. If you are riding the left foot, try to get the right shoulder over the left knee. Practice weight shifts: right, to left, to right, to left... in a smooth measured rhythm, like 10 times in a run. That will loosen you up. Just shift the weight, don't worry about lifting the foot in that excercise.

Lastly, the boom is your best friend. ski a few on the boom, then back to the short line, then back to the boom. It will make a difference. every time I went back to shortline I felt I made a little progress.   All said, the tight core/crunch was the difference maker for me.

I did not use shoe skis much doing these techniques. Shoe skis allow you to do the trick WITHOUT doing the proper technique in my opinion. THat is, they are very forgiving. Once you have the proper technique, shoes are good for slow speed practice or in bumpy conditions. You might try the shoes, but be very vigilant about proper technique. I learned one foot wakes on shoes. But I had David Small in my head for 2 days making sure I was doing it right. Best of luck!

75 Tique wrote: Yeah, Kevin, I hear you, especially about the lean away/defensive thing. That seems to be characteristic of my form and I haven't been able to get away from it, that's why I suggested the need to bend at my waist more, maybe lower the handle position a bit. Not sure why I was wobbling, tho it might be my feet fighting each other because they are point out instead of back. Also, I am hoping feet closer together (you think they are right next to each other until you see a video and you can't believe how far apart they are, but I hear that is a normal reaction)will reduce the swaying/wobbles. Unfortunately, as I indicated above, I don't have anyone to point these things out to me, so unless I video, I have no idea what I am doing, and I haven't videoed in years. Hoping this guy will be able to help me, we just haven't had a chance to get together yet this year, and now our whole lake is a no wake zone till water levels go down a bit.

Chiming in late, but here is what I saw on your backwards run. Good start! When skiing, lots of spray = plowing. Your feet need to flatten out and ride the water. Part is going to be flexing your ankle (do lots of calf stretches on the dock) the other is getting out of the defensive position hollywood mentioned. Your ride looked just like mine until David Small rebuilt it. This may be a lot to take in, but this is how I fixed mine: Your head is looking down, because your body is at a fairly stiff, inclined position. You need to get your shoulders up, then the head will come up, then you can see the horizon, which will help the lean to the right, and the dead wobbles (in will, trust me). How to get the shoulders up? Get bend in knees and waist at the same time. Wiast bend alone will make matters worse. Knees wont bend until the waist bends. This took a while to understand. Imagine (or try) sitting in a chair. Your knees and waist bend at the same time as one motion. when skiig, the waist bend is more like trying to sit down, and the kness will bend too. Soooo: in one movement, eyes/head up to the horizon, bend knees and waist like taking a seat! Got it? Good.

Next the handle. It is pulled away from your body slightly, or more than it should. The pull through you body is not optimum, and your current body position magnifies this. I recommend to get a small concave arch in the small of your back, roll the shoulders slightly forward. This will get the handle glued to the small of your back instead of floating in the breeze. Combine this with the adjustments above, you are golden.

This is everything I learned from David Small, and you don't have to pay me 200 bucks! LOL.

I do not recommend going LL until you get this tuned up. Mabe OK for the young bucks. All the aches pulls, pains and piches I have gotten in footing are from LLBD. Happy footing.

Dam right I'm disagreeing Roy...at least with the speed.

Steve,
if your basic one foot at 40mph is comfortable...you do not need more speed to do the reverse. I've seen heavier people ski slower than that lots of times.

40 holding directly to the boom IS fast.

This sounds to me like normal progression, realization that reverses ARE harder than basics...you will be constantly reminded of this.

you need the correct body/leg/foot position. (I would guess that you are not getting the foot directly under you)


I recommend doing reverses first and twice as many as you do on your basic...or it will always be waaaayyyy harder to do your reverse one foot.


It's easy and common to jump to the conclusion that more speed will solve the problem but that is usually not the case...more speed just lets you learn it wrong and leads to bad falls later.


If you've taken a header at 44mph you won't be asking for more speed. trust me.