starter question

http://www.amarket.com/mes337ml.htm

Thanks for the advice. I had it checked over a couple of months ago and the battery and electrical system checked out (at my local Nautique dealer). There IS a lag when the engine is cold, but more of a lag when it warms up. I was told that was because it requires more power to crank a warm engine than a cold engine. Is it your opinion that it is very unlikely that the starter is faulty if it hasn't failed yet? Would you view the lag as a not-issue? THANKS

Usually a dragging starter is a sign of low voltage or a bad connection. Also putting an old starter on a newly rebuilt high compression motor can be a strain on a starter.

Thanks again for the imput. I should have asked better questions when I had the boat in the shop. I was told that everything looked fine and that the starter, though lagging, wasn't failing so I shouldn't need to worry about it. They said the battery and cables/connections looked fine.

I don't know when the engine was tuned up last. I bought the boat this past August. The guys at the loacal Nautique shop said everything looked and sounded fine when I had it winterized in November. I asked them to do whatever needed to be done at that time and they said everything looked fine.

I am not using the original battery. I did have it tested at a battery shop and it tested out great. I guess I'll need to try again and have the electical system load tested before I replace the starter.

Thanks again

Ryan,

What is the cold cranking amps (CCA) of the battery you are using now? is it a deep-cycle?

Also what engine do you have and is it carborated or FI?   usually when the starter drags it's due to the timing being off or low current to the starter. So if you have a FI eninge with a DIS ignition (i.e. no dist) then the timing is controled by the computer and no adjustment can be made to the timing. Now if it does have a dist then you need to check the timing and adjust accordingly. Now for the battery, if you replaced it with a deep cycle battery, odds are you are not getting enough current to the starter with it and need to replace it with a cranking (non-deep cycle) battery, especially if you have a ford block. Deep cycle batteries give low current for long periods of time, (i.e running electronics all day) While a cranking battery gives high current over short periods off time. It takes a lot more current to get the starter turning than it does to keep it turning. I believe the term is call electromotive force but it's been a while since I took physics and may be wrong on the termology. There's really only two things that can go wrong with the starter, the brushes wear out or the solenoid goes bad. So with a Ford starter really all you have to worry about is the brushes since the soleniod is seperate. And the only difference between an automotive and marine starter is the marine version has a spark/flame arrestor and better corrosion resistance there's no need to make a big deal of it being a marine starter. If a guy knows how to rebuild a car starter then he can do a marine starter.

You need a new starter. Although there are many good rebuild shops do you really want to rely on a rebuilt starter in a CC marine application? The cost of of a new starter is not that high. If you can afford a boat you can afford a new starter. Save money somewhere else. Sell the old starter on Ebay and be sure to advertise it as needing rebuilding.

When an electric motor heats, tolerances that where acceptable resulting in an operable motor cold, become unacceptable and unoperable when hot. The worn bushings allow the armature to come into contact with the field pole pieces when hot. The starter motor must overcome ths internal drag AND the torque required to spin your engine.

The starter motor will only get progressively worse and will eventually leave you stranded.

Unless you are boating on a small lake and you are not concerned, buy a new starter before your next trip out.

(Electric motors, including starter motors, are what I know something about. I owned and operated an electric motor rewind shop in Houston for 20 years. Trust me on this one.)

I guess all that time we spent on FEA and thermal expansion studys weren't needed after all during the design phase. The motor gets hot and the tolerances are not controlable and the motor is junk becuase the armature rubs against the field coils. Hummmm


What goes bad is the front bushing in the nose housing or the rear bearing in the end plate or you loss the case hardening on the bearing surfaces of the armature which allow the armature to rotate off axis and with the additional dynamic effects this causes the air gap is reduced and the armature rubs against the field coils and then you need it re-wound and most times replace armature as well or basicly a motor that is realy more expensive to re-build then it is to get a remaunfactured or new motor.

What will cause a starter to turn slowly or drag? ignition timing, low battery, poor electrical connections, worn brushes, or a worn commutator.

Since the field coils in a starting motor are are only protected by a thin epxoy coating and kraft papper for insulation once the armature's laminations start to rub against it they ususally will sort within a few rotations and stop working completely.



Just a crabby old DELCO-REMY designer's $0.02

Don't get me wrong I don't indorse using car spec components on marine applications. Just that there are only a few things that are really different from marine to auto and in the case of a starter motor there is really only one thing and that is the arestor and it is pretty easy to convert an auto to marine starter. A lot of poeple try and make it a major issue regarding marine verse automotive components and it really isn't and if you know what is differnet from one to the other it's not that hard to convert them, if your in a pinch on a starter or even a dist. now an alternator is a whole different animal becuase there are several differences where on the others it's only one or two things. Now I have a little inside info because I was a designer for an OEM manufacture and had to convert automotive spec parts to marine spec parts.

79Nautique, I understand what you're saying. It's the "if you know what is different from one to the other it's not that hard to convert them" part that I'm concerned about. I don't think I'd feel very safe if I were to just "go get a car starter and put the hose clamp on it." I mean, is that all there is to it? Does the hose clamp have to go anywhere in particular? A little information can be dangerous. Here's an extreme hypothetical situation: If your boat catches fire at a marina and an insurance investigation shows that the cause was from a non-marine starter, will they cover you and the damage you could cause?

hose clamp just keeps the cover on , could just put goop around it , http://www.mesmarine.com/337m.html

Never, never ever put a car starter on a boat!!! The marine starter is thermo sealed and that is more then just putting on a hose clamp and gooping on some sealer. I love my family and Nautique too much to not spend the extra bucks for a marine starter. BAD ADVICE...

Thermo sealed now thats a new one. The hose clamp has nothing to do with anything regarding marine to auto. What is different is that any hole or passageway that a flame could get outside of the internal workings of the starter are sealed. So what does that intell? depends on the brand and model of starter but most add a baffle/flame arrestor between the armature windings and the nose housing at the other end they change the endplate. Go to your autoparts store and have them lay a marine starter next to a automoble starter without you looking and them guess which one is which and 90% of you couldn't tell the difference.