Forums
NautiqueParts.comNautiqueSkins.com - Correct Craft Upholstery and Part
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - What type valve spring compressor
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

What type valve spring compressor

 Post Reply Post Reply   
Author
SNobsessed View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: October-21-2007
Location: IA
Status: Offline
Points: 7102
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: What type valve spring compressor
    Posted: February-21-2009 at 7:59pm
Hey guys - I am planning on replacing my valve stem seals this spring. I saw plug fouling that an experienced friend attributes to 20 yr old valve seals. I am planning on doing this with heads on & air pressure in cyl. I was looking for a valve spring compressor & see several types, ranging from $5 to over $100.

What kind of tool do you recommend?   One that uses the rocker stud?

PS - Poly-acrylate or viton seals??
“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”

Ben Franklin
Back to Top
critter View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: January-11-2008
Location: New Hill, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 1227
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote critter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-21-2009 at 9:29pm
Chris,
The one I have clips on the lower part of the spring and then compresses the spring cap down with the turn of a knob. The valve stem and keeper comes up thru a center hole to allow you to remove the keepers.
Then remove the cap and spring(s) with the tool. Replace the seal and reverse the process.

Not sure where I got it but I think it was ordered online and was not expensive.
1980 Ski Nautique
1966 Barracuda
Back to Top
SNobsessed View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: October-21-2007
Location: IA
Status: Offline
Points: 7102
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-21-2009 at 10:44pm
Thanks critter. Those tong types are less expensive ($20), so that's what I will get. Probably will only use it once. Will be too old to change valve stem seals in another 20 years!
“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”

Ben Franklin
Back to Top
Waterdog View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: April-27-2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2020
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Waterdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-22-2009 at 9:04am
SN,
I have a lever tpye compressor that uses the rocker stud. I'll send it to you, if you'll send it back when your done, (no hurry by the 4th of July or so).
I do like the mini coil spring compressors.
Try rotating the crank till the exhaust valve is closed, then thread about 2 feet of 1/4 rope(with a knot tied on the end) into the spark plug hole and GENTLY rotate the crank a little more till you feel some resistance from the rope packing on top of the piston it's nice and quite so you can listen to the radio, or talk.
- waterdog -

78 Ski Tique

Back to Top
SNobsessed View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: October-21-2007
Location: IA
Status: Offline
Points: 7102
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-22-2009 at 11:12am
Thanks for the offer on tool & idea on the rope. The rope trick will save me from making an adapter from a spark plug. I just bought a spring compressor from ebay so I am good to go there.

Thanks anyway!

Does anyone have a recommendation on what grade seal to buy? Nitrile is the lowest cost & I assume to be avoided. Poly-Acrylate is the next step up in heat resistance - I think this is what NAPA calls 'premium' grade. You can also get Viton but do we need that at our operating temps? It is about 2X the cost.

There is still plenty of time to over-analyze this before spring!
“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”

Ben Franklin
Back to Top
eric lavine View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: August-13-2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13413
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-22-2009 at 12:40pm
be very careful when you put air to the cylinder(if this method is used) if you've never done it, it will surprise if so, if the piston is up it will push the piston to BDC and will startle you, and if you have some fingers in the general area of something turning...altenator, waterpump you get the point...
BTW, if i had to choose i would go with the Poly's
note: if you know this dis-regard, its a caution for the ones that dont
"the things you own will start to own you"
Back to Top
Waterdog View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: April-27-2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2020
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Waterdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-22-2009 at 12:46pm
Eric,
I've thought of calling a bunch of times - BUT...
                     Got It , Thanks again
- waterdog -

78 Ski Tique

Back to Top
SNobsessed View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: October-21-2007
Location: IA
Status: Offline
Points: 7102
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-22-2009 at 12:52pm
Eric - That is a great safety warning. I probably would not of thought of that risk.

I'm going to use the rope - seems simpler!

Thanks
“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”

Ben Franklin
Back to Top
81nautique View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-03-2005
Location: Big Rock, Il
Status: Offline
Points: 5777
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 81nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-22-2009 at 4:58pm
Originally posted by SNobsessed SNobsessed wrote:

Hey guys - I am planning on replacing my valve stem seals this spring. I saw plug fouling that an experienced friend attributes to 20 yr old valve seals.
??


Does it blow blue smoke when started after sitting. If you're fouling plugs you may have other issues, I'd perform compression and leak down tests to get a feel for the condition of your engine first. How many hours?
You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails
Back to Top
SNobsessed View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: October-21-2007
Location: IA
Status: Offline
Points: 7102
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-22-2009 at 7:21pm
950 hours. Compression is good, around 130# on all cyls. I found the plug fouled twice, the 2nd time after about 50 hours. Plug was black & oily both times. All other plugs look great.

I originally thought it was ignition related & had bought new cap, rotor, plugs, & wires. I also thought it could be cross firing, but my buddy said most likely it is the valve stem seal leaking.      

Haven't noticed blue smoke upon startup, but I have a fresh-air exhaust (flame away!). If only 1 cylinder has a bad seal, would it even be visually detectable?

This is a relatively cheap repair, so I am going to be a parts changer & put new seals in, on the chance that they are bad. The labor involved is fun to me, so that doesn't count.

Thanks everyone for your advice. Hopefully I won't screw something up & have to pull the heads. (But then it would be GT40 time - oops!)

“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”

Ben Franklin
Back to Top
79nautique View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: January-27-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7872
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-23-2009 at 1:46pm
well enjoy waisting your time won't cost much, if it was the valve guide seal then it wouldn't foul the plug as it would burn off, now if the rings are starting to go then it'll never burn off the oil like it does on a bad valve guide seal.


But oh lets be a smart ass and say the compression is all fine and dandy and I'm full of crap,

good glad you mouthed off and stuck your foot in your mouth like always,

your compression test results have nothing to do with in determinding if the oil rings begining to go, creating additional blow-by and plug fouling.
Back to Top
05 210 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: February-17-2006
Location: Southern Maine
Status: Offline
Points: 1481
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 05 210 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-23-2009 at 5:08pm
Originally posted by 79nautique 79nautique wrote:

well enjoy waisting your time won't cost much, if it was the valve guide seal then it wouldn't foul the plug as it would burn off


   I'm sure this will get me in trouble with 79,but I completely disagree with the above statement. I am not saying that valve seals are the problem, but I have seen first hand more than a dozen times(particularly on 05 Harleys) that bad guide seals will indeed foul plugs. It usually takes about 1500-2000 miles. Normally it is only one cylinder and the oil will bake to the electrode and close the gap to the point the plug fouls.

   Mike
Air Nautique 210 Team

640 hours, not 1 regret
Back to Top
79nautique View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: January-27-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7872
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-23-2009 at 5:29pm
Mike it's been my experince that usually happens when the oil ring is worn and not just from the guide's seal. Leaking past the valve guide seal ultimately the problem usually lies with clogged oil returns in the heads that raise the nornmal oil level in the heads above the seals causing them to leak when sitting, otherwise that seal see's very little oil on it and usually it's the intake side that is the problem as oil get's sucked through it on the intake stroke. Problem is unless it's been quite some time and the guide is worn as well it doesn't leak enough to fowl the plug, enough to blow blue smoke cold, but if the guides bad as well then yes it could let enough oil in to fowl the plug.

But again it's still a waiste of time because if it's leaking that much to fowl the plug, then the guides are shot as well as the seal is and it's time to have the heads redone, now cheaping out and replacing just the seal is only a band-aid at best that won't last long.


Besides show me a HD that doesn't burn or leak oil?
Back to Top
05 210 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: February-17-2006
Location: Southern Maine
Status: Offline
Points: 1481
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 05 210 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-23-2009 at 7:12pm
Originally posted by 79nautique 79nautique wrote:


Besides show me a HD that doesn't burn or leak oil?


With all the technology in gaskets as of late, It amazes me that after 105 years they still can't figure it out

I agree w/almost 1000hours the oil rings may be weak,which obviously will not show up on a compression test. I must also agree it is usually the intake seals,at least it always is on the HDs.And yes,if the guides are worn,seals won't help much,at least not in the long run

   Mike
Air Nautique 210 Team

640 hours, not 1 regret
Back to Top
SNobsessed View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: October-21-2007
Location: IA
Status: Offline
Points: 7102
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-23-2009 at 8:41pm
Thanks guys, will cheap out & do the minimum, as the engine is performing well & I didn't even know the plug had fouled again until I took it out at winterization.

I know you don't like my plan, but it is the best I can do this year.

If I had the money I would do the full rebuild, but the economy has taken it's toll on me too.

I appreciate the advice you all have provided.
“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”

Ben Franklin
Back to Top
79nautique View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: January-27-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7872
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2009 at 11:28am
Originally posted by SNobsessed SNobsessed wrote:

Thanks guys, will cheap out & do the minimum, as the engine is performing well & I didn't even know the plug had fouled again until I took it out at winterization.

I know you don't like my plan, but it is the best I can do this year.

If I had the money I would do the full rebuild, but the economy has taken it's toll on me too.

I appreciate the advice you all have provided.


all you really need to do is run a hotter plug in that cylinder and call it a day, say a 25 instead of a 24, swapout the one plug more often if needed, whole lot cheaper and easier to replace a two dollor plug once or twice season than risk screwing something up like not getting a retainer seated completetly and dropping a valve or dropping the wedge keepers down an oil return. And then lets not forget you have to pull the exhause manifolds and if those bolts are rusty more issues.

so if you want to cheap out so to stay, I'd call it knowing there's an issue and waiting for it to get bad enough to fix but for the mean time this help help it along and save money.
Back to Top
SNobsessed View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: October-21-2007
Location: IA
Status: Offline
Points: 7102
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2009 at 8:30pm
Thanks for that advice '79. I will try your idea of a hotter plug. The cylinder can't be in very bad shape as it was not missing that I could notice.

I agree not to fix it if it isn't broke. I have had times when it wasn't broke until after I 'fixed' it!

I am lucky to get the advice of experts like you on this site.
“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”

Ben Franklin
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Copyright 2024 | Bagley Productions, LLC