Bad vibration |
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RMG001
Newbie Joined: October-26-2010 Location: Boise Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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Posted: July-21-2012 at 12:50am |
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1979 ski with 351 low hours after full rebuild. Cruising along pulling the tube at about 20mph and a loud bang like I hit a log. immediately pulled into neutral. Tried to continue but massive vibration anything over idle. Limped home. Cannot see any obvious signs of damage and looked all around after the noise and could not find any stick or logs in the water. everything looks to be in order under the boat and in the hull. Owned three nautiques and never had anything like this happen. Any ideas?
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kapla
Grand Poobah Joined: March-27-2008 Location: BA, Argentina Status: Offline Points: 6148 |
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definetely you bent something, sometimes is not visible, but it doesn't take much to make the boat shake....
I'd suggest pulling prop and shaft and have them checked... |
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<a href="">1992 ski nautique
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RMG001
Newbie Joined: October-26-2010 Location: Boise Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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It sure feels like something is bent. Wish I could have seen what I might have hit
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89Martinique
Senior Member Joined: September-05-2011 Location: Binghamton Status: Offline Points: 457 |
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check your exhaust hose. CC made some wonderfully sharp "S" bends for our Martinique and the previous owner over heat the exhaust. and under the floor the hose for each side was kinked. The right side specially. so bad the engine refused to run from 750-1200 rpm. it would literally hop in rpm's. And during of which it would start to vibrate violently.
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Current Boats:
1992 Supra Comp-TS6M PCM 351w HO Pro Boss Pro-Tec Ignition - Full Composite (no wood stingers!) 1989 (3rd Gen) Correct Craft Martinique B/R PCM 351w Power Plus 1984 E-Scow Keuka Lake, |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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I'd say you bent something as well. You can check the shaft with a dial indicator as explained in the alignment 101 video ("new" section of forums).
The prop should come off but the shaft can be checked without removing it. Even though the prop doesn't have any visual signs of being bent, it to may be damaged. A prop shop can tell as soon as they set it up. |
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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I had a similar experience - hit a submerged log (it floated up so we did see that) - the prop was undamaged, believe it or not. However, the shaft got a .010 inch bow put into it. We straightened it ourselves using homemade V blocks & a dial indicator. We got it to about .0015 of true (using homemade V blocks & a basement floor for a surface plate!). No vibration now.
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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I forgot to mention that the runout should not exceed about.003". Make sure you check aft of the strut on the taper. It's a common spot to bend at the strut.
Here's a link to the alignment video where using a dial indicator is mentioned If it does turn out to be a bent shaft, you'll need to do and alignment anyway. |
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RMG001
Newbie Joined: October-26-2010 Location: Boise Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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Just started looking at things under the boat. Not a scratch on the prop which is not conclusive of a bent shaft, but did notice that the rudder is really loose. It wiggles back and forth, port to starboard, about 1/4 to 1/2 inch. Cannot imagine that this is within spec nor do I even know what that is. Searched to forum and did not see anything specific on rudder tightness. Anyone got any ideas. Thanks Rob
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Rob,
If the rudder slop is when it's shaft is turning radially in the port then that play is most likely normal due to wear at joints. However do check to make sure the tiller arm is still firmly attached to the rudder shaft. If the play is side to side in the rudder port then you have a problem. If it is, some of the slop could be taken up by tightening the packing gland. |
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RMG001
Newbie Joined: October-26-2010 Location: Boise Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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It is definitely side to side. I can shake is back and forth. It moves so much that it goes clunk clunk
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RMG001
Newbie Joined: October-26-2010 Location: Boise Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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went to the shop they think there is something broken in the rudder the way it is slapping around. Sounds like pulling the fuel tank and getting in there just have no idea what I am looking for. Guess we are going to find out what the rudder mech. Looks like
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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So it is a radial play in the rudder shaft and not lateral in the port! I do not feel you understood my question. I would say that the tiller arm is loose on the rudder shaft. If you don't understand "tiller arm", think small sailboat.
Take pictures and post them. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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BTW, I do not feel the loose rudder is causing the vibration. Check the shaft as I recommended.
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RMG001
Newbie Joined: October-26-2010 Location: Boise Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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The tiller was secure to the rudder. The shaft was loose in the port. The rudder shaft was sitting low in the port and wiggling all around. Adjusted the nut on the dry side and it raised the shaft in the port which stopped it from wiggling. I watched the video to determine run out, but I do not have a gauge. We rigged up a ghetto gauge with some clamps and a fine tipped pointed rod. There was not noticeable run out at all. This is not surgical, but this is not a small vibration either, so if it is not fixed I will have to try to find a gauge somewhere where we can get accurate measurements. I am not holding out much hope for the loose rudder, but we will see. I will post results
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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At what points did you check the shaft? In the middle and on the prop taper?
The rudder will eventually slip down in the port unless somethings there to prevent it. CC used anything from brass washers to a short section of brass pipe between the packing nut and the tiller arm. Was anything under the tiller arm to maintain the rudder height? |
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Airgrabber
Senior Member Joined: August-16-2011 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 163 |
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If it’s vibrating that bad you may have a bigger issue than a bent shaft. Usually you won’t feel that big of a vibration just above idle I would think. It may be in your tranny if you can’t see any obvious problems with your shaft. Just guessing though.
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Life is good. Work hard! Play Hard!
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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No on the trans problem. If something was bad in the trans to produce a bad vibration, it would have locked up. Rob was able to limp home. I suspect a bent shaft aft of the strut plus a bent prop. |
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Airgrabber
Senior Member Joined: August-16-2011 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 163 |
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I'm sure your right, I have worked on alot of tranny's on old muscle car have seen a bad output shaft cause a heck of a vibration and still able to move. I know,I know this is not an old muscle car.
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Life is good. Work hard! Play Hard!
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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concur with Pete
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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Eric - how's the new job going? Have you been working on towboats that have grounded due to low water?
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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RMG001
Newbie Joined: October-26-2010 Location: Boise Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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To get back to Pete; yes there was a brass washer that would be acting as a spacer. I checked the run out at the brace back to the prop. There is no play at all in the shaft due to a worn cutlass bearing. Everything feels very solid. I will try to rig something up today to check run out above the strut. It was either something catastrophic in the engine or trans. or we hit something. It was a noise and then vibration. I should have run the engine in neutral to eliminate a source I can do that today in the driveway. Thanks for everyone's input. Will keep updating till the end of the issue
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RMG001
Newbie Joined: October-26-2010 Location: Boise Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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How would I isolate to eliminate this as a possible problem? Thanks Rob
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RMG001
Newbie Joined: October-26-2010 Location: Boise Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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Meant to say how would we eliminate transmission problems?
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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What's the "brace"? Do you mean the strut?
If the cutlass is worn, then you should have play in the shaft to the bearing. The exception is if the shaft is bent inside the cutlass bearing.
You need to pull the prop and as mentioned check the run out at the prop taper.
Water and soap the cutlass bearing so you can run the engine and put it in gear. Check the shaft first so you don't possibly do more damage. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Then how did the rudder drop? |
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RMG001
Newbie Joined: October-26-2010 Location: Boise Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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The rudder probably did not ever just drop it appears to be adjustable up and down by what I will call the packing fitting and lock nut. It is threaded on the port. Moving the fitting a couple of turns took the slop out. Maybe I did something wrong here, but it worked. Let me know if I am going to get in trouble. I am about to go out and get it set up to run in the driveway. "Brace" was meant to reference the strut. Thanks for the soap and water on the cutlass bearing I was thinking that would be bad to run dry. I will pull the prop and check at the end of the shaft
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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I'm getting a feeling you are not reading some of the posts!! The threaded section is the gland that tightens the packing. The rudder shaft is smooth and will just slip down the packing after a few turns. |
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RMG001
Newbie Joined: October-26-2010 Location: Boise Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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Like was suggested earlier I probably need to take a picture and label the components so we are on the same page. I am reading all of the posts and appreciate everyone's help. It is a vocabulary issue as much as anything right now. I will try to get the correct terminology so we can be more clear on future posts. Thanks Rob
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Rob, Google "boat terminology". There are some pretty good sites out there that explain it all! |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Rob,
I have to ask, are you looking for more answers? You've been on site at least 15 times this afternoon! I really don't know what could be added to what has already been said. Plus, you may have noticed that Eric even commented. If you don't know him, he has gone on to other big boat repairs but still has a "hand" in Fantastic Finish Marine. They are the premiere marine trans rebuilders in the country. Eric has been a member here for years, has helped many and has rebuilt many of our transmissions. We are waiting on you to take off the prop and check that shaft. Don't forget to get that prop to the prop shop ether. |
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