floor repair and exploration

BuffaloBFN wrote: FWIW My suggestion to go with heavier grit is to aid a possible mechanical grip to the chemical bond. When you get down to where you want to be with the 36 grit, don't be afraid to bounce it for deeper grooves.

Ok makes sense. Thanks.

I have read in some threads that some put down some fiberglass between the hull and stringer bottom. What is the purpose of this?

teelta wrote: I have read in some threads that some put down some fiberglass between the hull and stringer bottom. What is the purpose of this?

This is to reinforce the hull when going no foam. It's thought that CC on later models used the foam it add rigidity to the hull skin.

BuffaloBFN wrote: 8122pbrainard wrote: teelta wrote: I have read in some threads that some put down some fiberglass between the hull and stringer bottom. What is the purpose of this? This is to reinforce the hull when going no foam. It's thought that CC on later models used the foam it add rigidity to the hull skin. Pete's not wearing a t-neck today. Specifically, the glass and resin put between the bottom of the stringer and the hull is to make up small differences in fittment. It's not to take up slop, so try to get the stringer close.

Wow, I sure misread this one!!

my surprise was that Pete was not wearing a t-neck..gotta be cold up north. bet that he has a monogramed shirt on tho....



john

I thought it was the t-neck that held in the 'CCFunk'. My bad.   

Did you find the boat tin canning?

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Trey, you may find that your mixture thins a bit when the epoxy kicks; so what looks good by the stir stick may end up too thin. Also, if you have an edge on the downhill side now, it'll save you grief if you fair it now.

cabosil: great stuff for thickening and saving weight but super hard, a bear to remove

microballons: easy to fair and not heavy, lower marks for thickening

talc: cheap and a good thickener, heavier

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The tech guy at US Composites recommended using 2 overlapping layers of Biax to glass the stringers to the hull. This is a bit different process than what I've read here on this site. But since the Biax is much thicker and several layers within it, it kind of makes sense to me and much simplier. I might add an extra just to make sure.
The tech also said that if you add dry heat blowing on the epoxy while it is drying, it won't blush. I tried it and worked.

TRBenj wrote: Working with biax is a pain. Its good stuff, but thick- so it doesnt like to make bends, and it soaks up a lot of resin. Adding layers over biax is less than fun, as its thickness will cause an air pocket at the transition. Grinding the edge smooth would be recommended if youre putting the 2nd layer down after the first is dry. Theres a reason most people here recommend a higher number of thinner layers instead... not only can it be made stronger (and have a better strength to weight ratio), but thin layers of cloth are infinitely easier to work with. Plus, biax is $$$.

Well I don't want to start a battle but I disagree with some of this.

I agree that more layers of fabric are stronger, have a higher strength to weight ratio, and are easier the work with. However, that's in a perfect world. In reality, thinner layers are still easier to work with but using a wet layup, your strength to weight ratio advantages go down depending on how much resin you think you need, and you could actually get lots of air bubbles between plies if you aren't careful. Weight gains and savings will be marginal though. Lastly, the cost of 2-3 layers of cloth weave will typically exceed the cost of biax.

There are lots of considerations in strength, resin content, stiffness, waterproofing capability, workability, price, etc. Each user needs to rack and stack the pros and cons to best determine which is best for them.

Maybe I have too much time on my hands to think and dream but I wonder if it possible to do away with the secondary stringer to put an integrated ballast under the floor kind of like how Roger (uk1979) did with his boat. I worry about the hull flexing so might need to put more fiberglass down to strengthen the hull??? Also how many ribs do you need to support the floor? Suggestions on pumping water in and out? Maybe this is all a bad idea, I don't know.

Trey.......a few tips that I and others have tried on their builds........
When flaring along the bottom of the stringers ready to take Cloth or Biax make some shaped tools out of plastic/pvc to run along the hull and give you a nice uniform shape.......the $ store is a good place to look for cooking spatulas wood one are good too as you can shape and use to work Biax into tight corners.
Let the flaring beginning to firm up run some cloth over it and brush on epoxy this will smooth it right out and give you very little sanding if you stop at this point and let fully set.
Working in and out of the boat is a pain try this........... sheet up one side of your boat and build a layup table on top along the side cover with news paper then clear plastic sheeting all taped on the underside of the table......pre wet out Biax don’t try to wet out on the stringers!!......I mix up the epoxy in the pot then with my Biax pre cut to size laying on the table and pore along the Biax then go over it with the roller to spread it out once that side is done turn over and do that side too and leave for a while you should be able to see the news print through the Biax then fold up like wall paper and hang on a rail and do the next piece if you have some, depending on length and size you can have 2 or 3 going at once as I found I had 30 to 45 min to work it, allot depends on the air temp you working in....a good place to try first is an exhaust port and swim deck mount to gauge the time you have as they are small I use a different epoxy here and there may be some different timings.
If you’re putting the first layer of Biax down bush on some epoxy first and leave to get sticky then start coating up the Biax then when you spread out from corners it will stay put.
On the Biax I use found the long ply side to be the flattest and went with that side down.........let it kick and is nice and sticky then apply your next layer remember to turn 180 still with the long ply down to get the 45 running the other way........ with your tools work the Biax out from corners to remove air and brush the excess epoxy back over....   have good rads on the top of your stringers and biax will fold over easy.....don’t try to fold over the secondary stringers just go each side and cap with cloth....if you have cut outs in the stringers just run over them and knife out when semi dry/green.
If you can have help mixing up the epoxy while you spread and fix works well with many beer brakes waiting each layer to kick/sticky up as an all in one build is the best for a chemical bond throughout..........but how ever to do it will be as good or better than the old...... do what works for you.

Try to work in a VERY WELL VENTALATED AREA a car port is good epoxy is not good to breath in all day spray mask is good to use some have had bad eye swelling skin reaction and for me made me feel low after a few days.

As Pete said you could make tanks with ribs and add more fibre glass to the hull if using the hull as the tank it would need to be a good thick covering to seal up the old and not crack over time as the old is not water tight like epoxy that’s why your old stringers rotted out, a cool project but if you need to be back on the water this may stop you next year if free time is short.....there are many ballast pumps out there it will come down to how much $$ and the time to fill /empty you’re looking for.

Good luck with the build and thanks for posting your progress.       

Good post uk1979. One thing I want to add is before laying the pre-wetted biax down, make sure you apply a thin layer of epoxy to your stringers and hull. This will make everything stick better and you can just dab your fabric in place. I typically prefer to lay all the layers at once and when they become tacky, come back and press out any air bubbles, gaps, and lifted edges that may have formed...but that's just my preferred plan. There is nothing wrong with uk1979's plan. There is also nothing wrong with letting the first layer dry completely, scuff sanding it, and applying another layer. They just take a little more time is all.

Probably doesn't need to be said but just in case. Remember that published cure times are typically taken in 75-80 degree weather. If you're working in 40-50 degree weather, your cure times and pot life times will probably double.