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Coil+carb problem?

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    Posted: July-19-2013 at 11:23pm
Hola, I need help!

Been having some carb issues lately, too much fuel entering. Already ordered a carb rebuild kit weeks ago but it never arrived. Ordered another one this week but won't arrive till wednesday at least. Hope to have it (temporarily) fixed tomorrow because I have clients coming sunday.

Last couple outings it started stalling in or right after a turn. But only after about a half hour of use. Must add that the coil always gets friggin' hot. Because it's not happening the first half hour or so I think it's related to the coil too, besides the carburetor. I might be totally and utterly wrong though.
Yesterday it also stalled in straight line by the way, after an hour or so. First no problem, then problem existed just in turns, later also in straight line.

Anyway; stalling in or after turns, what's all your ideas?
Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TX Foilhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-20-2013 at 12:53am
I'm going with coil, shouldn't be noticeably hotter than the motor. I think the turn coming out of a turn is just asking it to do more than it can at the time. Putting a skier behind it will probably make it happen sooner from my experience.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRIP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-20-2013 at 3:13am
Hi, thanks for your input.
I'm with you in that I think the coil plays a role in this. I just don't understand how making a turn would influence the functioning of the coil. ??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRIP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-20-2013 at 8:55pm
Ha. Looks like not enough gas can reach the engine; maybe dirt in the tank that's obstructing the exit for fuel. Problem got worse today, not only i turns but all the time, as soon as it reached 2000rpm.
So, how do you clean the tank? Anything I can do to make it a bit better without pulling out the tank? Maybe blowing in the hose to open it up. Anything else?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-20-2013 at 9:16pm
Sander,
Have you checked the ant-siphon valve to see if it's plugged up? Junk in the tank will plug them up. If you do need to clean the tank, you will need to pull it out of the boat.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRIP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-20-2013 at 10:10pm
Haven't checked but will do first thing tomorrow. Thanks for the tip!
Thinking about it; can you check from the outside if it's plugged up?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRIP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-22-2013 at 1:14am
Nope, wasn't the anti siphon valve. Tried to blow air into the tank from the filter-end with a kite-pump. Didn't really manage I think but afterwards I cold easily suck fuel my way.
So I now doubt that is the problem.
It runs worse every day. Today couldn't do more than 14 mph.
I'm lost.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dwcar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-22-2013 at 9:58am
Are you running points or electronic ignition?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRIP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-22-2013 at 11:47am
Electronic.
Can add that especially when accelerating the engine and whole boat vibrate and shake like it's falling apart.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dwcar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-22-2013 at 2:44pm
Have you checked the order of your plug wires?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRIP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-25-2013 at 7:42pm
Hi dwcar, thanks for your suggestion.
Yes they are, but your post made me check if they were all tightly connected, and one turned out to be a bit loose. After tightening the boat ran MUCH better again. Only small issue that it kept having was a little 'hesitating' at higher rpm's (started around 2300). Thought I was back at the initial problem (see
this thread) and that a carb rebuild could fix it.
Just to make sure I bypassed the fuel filter/water separator today to make sure the filter wasn't causing the problem. But when I did that the engine started acting up badly. Big loud bang and the engine shut off. Then started really bad, if it started it ran fine in neutral, but as soon as in I put it in gear again that noise and shutting off again.
See this video (make sure to turn up the volume)

(edit: can't seem to embed video so here is the link)

(edit 2: an electrician checked everything and problem is not electric or related)

Let me know what you think!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nauti87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-25-2013 at 8:35pm
That's exactly what mine was doing, I'm pretty sure my Prestolite EI module is on it's way out. With a meter on the coil mine shows 4.5 volts running, then it goes to 0 and dies,,,and it wont start until the meter goes back up to 3.8 - 4.5. Then it fires right up.
The weird thing is (opposite from normal) once it's warmed up (dies 4-5 times) it will run great until it's shut off and starts cooling off, then it does it all over again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRIP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-26-2013 at 3:31pm
A friend who is a boat mechanic in the Netherlands also said he thinks it's ignition or related.
Would that explain that it runs good in neutral, also when revving up, but makes that noise and dies when put in gear?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRIP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-27-2013 at 2:00pm
Give me some more ideas please!
I'll check cables and spark plugs, and find someone with a strobe light to check timing. What else?!
Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-27-2013 at 9:04pm
Trip - I watched your video. I looks like bad gas to me (water in gas). Have you tried hooking up a small tank with known good gas?

Go back to basics - fuel, air, compression, spark - one is not right.

My money is on fuel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRIP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-28-2013 at 2:46pm
Hi, thanks.
No haven't tried known good gas. Wouldn't know where to find it too. But if it's dirt in the tank just a jerrycan would work. Can still be bad gas though (which actually is fact in Costa Rica).
I'll see if I can figure something out.
Thanks again!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-28-2013 at 3:36pm
Another thought - try checking the ground on the dizzy points plate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-28-2013 at 9:44pm
I've had this very same problem in the past with my 79 Ski. After about an hour or so, my boat would start running like garbage. Coil would be super hot to the touch. I would actually switch out coils with a cool / backup coil until that coil would get hot, then repeat the process; run the boat for a while, change out coil, run the boat for a while.......

For me, it turned out my timing was way out. I installed a new ignition tune up kit, set the timing correctly and I haven't had a lick of trouble since.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRIP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-29-2013 at 3:14am
Thanks! Hope to be able to check timing tomorrow, didn't find someone with strobo light this weekend.
N00b question: does electronic ignition have a points plate (and ground that I can check)? Excuse my ignorance...

On another note: today the noise and shutting down when putting in gear had disappeared! Clueless what it was. I thought maybe something got stuck in the prop, but checked today and nothing was there. But either was the problem ;)
So I'm back where I was a couple days ago; a boat that just doesn't run very well. Up to about 2000 rpm's it's OK, than it starts failing.
Please check this new video and notice how rpm's on the gauge do not keep track with real rpm's (as you can hear).

Verified today that it's not sparkplug or cables, and fuel filter/water separator.
But what IS it?!
Thanks for all your help!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-29-2013 at 9:59am
Regardless of EI or points, the primary circuit inside the dizzy must find a ground. Sometimes the dizzy is so corroded that the ground is lost. Hence my suggestion to check this. Just use an ohmmeter from engine block to inside of dizzy, should be near zero ohms.

Now it sounds like the timing isn't advancing, or timing is way off.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kapla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-29-2013 at 11:26pm
generally it will rev fine without gear and runs lousy with gear it seems your dizzy its corroded inside and the advance mechanism is stuck..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRIP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-30-2013 at 1:36pm
Thanks folks!
Gonna check distributor and timing this afternoon.
Fingers crossed...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote delovett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-30-2013 at 2:13pm
I'm having somewhat similar issues.

That said, the incorrect tach reading would imply some sort of issue in the ignition. Could be a corroded connection, burnt out wire or just a bad coil.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TX Foilhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-30-2013 at 2:25pm
.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dwcar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-30-2013 at 3:05pm
Originally posted by TX Foilhead TX Foilhead wrote:

I wouldn't mine the ability to turn the muffler on and off by switching which exhaust hole its using, 2 tips but it would not use both at the same time. Got a friend with a 502 in his Crowline with the side exit exhaust and it's fun to play with, that's the only way I would consider goin to open or duals, I've spent far too much on the stereo not to be able to hear it when the boats running.



Huh?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TX Foilhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-30-2013 at 4:40pm


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TX Foilhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-30-2013 at 6:07pm
Oh crap, now I see wrong thread.    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRIP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-30-2013 at 9:45pm
Looks like you were right SNobsessed and kapla; changed timing a bit (advanced? Resulted in higher rpm's) and it ran fine. Gonna check tomorrow with a timing light. How much should it be? A friend said 8 degrees, is that correct?
The gonna ride some sets hopefully and see how it behaves.

I never changed timing. Is it possible that it changes a bit over time because of vibrations in the boat?

Thanks again everybody who took the time to watch the videos and contributed!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-30-2013 at 10:48pm
If the dizzy isn't loose & the advance is working, then the only way I can see how the timing would change would be for the cam timing chain to jump a tooth.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRIP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-31-2013 at 3:14am
Advance mechanism seemed to be OK, but something might turn out to be wrong, I don't know. Ran fine now with timing adjusted a bit so I'd guess advance is fine.

Really hope everything goes well tomorrow. Will post back!

Edit: 8 degrees, is that correct?
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