Leo Bentz, Ski Nautique and Boat #1 |
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ArtCozier
Platinum Member Joined: April-25-2012 Location: Orlando FL Status: Offline Points: 1023 |
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It's my understanding that 312s have a bad habit of breaking rod caps. Boat Dr. had one that broke a crank. People on the web say that a stock 292 is a stronger engine. For some reason, I'm still partial to 312s because one of those is what got me involved in this whole boating and skiing world. I could be talked into using a 292. I could tell people that it's a 312, but I don't do that sort of thing!
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"Art"
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lewy2001
Grand Poobah Joined: March-19-2008 Location: NSW Australia Status: Offline Points: 2234 |
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If you're going through hell, keep going
89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7952 |
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I was looking at a 292 on a stand today that is getting ready to be rebuilt and the way it was explained to me is that the journals on a 312 are larger to accommodate the larger diameter crank, but Ford took away material from the caps, so they are not as beefy as they are in the smaller displacement engines. This guy said grinding the 312 crank down to fit into the 292 journals makes for a stronger engine.
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Eether
Groupie Joined: October-20-2015 Location: Greenville Status: Offline Points: 64 |
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Ha, was just typing that out and saw Art beat me.. The 312 really is a different animal. Sourcing a block from a non marine environment sounds like a good plan as one side of mine had to be sleeved. Sadly, a truck shop near here had stacks of 312 engines that ended up at the scrap yard a few years ago..
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ArtCozier
Platinum Member Joined: April-25-2012 Location: Orlando FL Status: Offline Points: 1023 |
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Guys, as I understand it from two different sources, you can't make a true-blue 312 out of anything else. The crank journals are bigger on a 312 than on any other Y-block. You can make a 312 cubic inch engine, but it's still not a "real" one.
I have been told that the only way to externally identify a real 312 is to look on the outside diameter of the flywheel flange on the crank for a cast-in "dot" that is about the size of an Aspirin tablet. I've been looking for a complete RH 312 for my '63. I have a bunch of parts and two partial engines, but I don 't know if any of the stuff I have is any good. |
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"Art"
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7952 |
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Looks like a great engine Alan. For some reason a 272 can be bored out to a 292 and a 292 can be bored out to a 312, but a 272 cannot be bored out to a 312.
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skutsch
Grand Poobah Joined: June-19-2008 Location: Racine, WI Status: Offline Points: 2874 |
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It ended up in MN: 1958 Starfire. I am on the fence about bringing it home, I need more barn space... |
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6149 |
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This thing is so cool. I don't have any correct parts but I could offer weekend help sometime ha.
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81nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5772 |
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Touche Larry, I hope it's true. I had a deal made on that boat but had to let it go due to too much stuff happening right now, I was sort of hoping a few years down the road that it might still be available. I sure hope someone here ended up with it. |
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81nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5772 |
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Pete, 2 thoughts on that from what I've read. A 292 can and is often bored to a 312 but the 272 can't be. The core shift on these old castings is so bad it can be quite a deal trying to find a usable block when you need to bore. that's sort of where we're at now trying to find a good 312 block, They are out there so we just need to keep trying until the machine shop says we've got a good one. Second thought on it is I would rather have a block with the correct 312 casting numbers on it if we can find one. So we'll go that route as long as we can. Thanks again for the lead. |
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75 Tique
Grand Poobah Joined: August-12-2004 Location: Seven Lakes, NC Status: Offline Points: 6107 |
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I'm going to guess in his garage. He's being coy. The last time someone was being coy around here.....
...the project showed up in his garage. |
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_____________
“So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Online Points: 21131 |
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Very cool, Alan. Nice find.
Pete, I'm not familiar with the y-block but a .18o overbore is pretty extreme. When bores vary that much between blocks, they're usually not the same casting- even if they're the same externally. Chrysler 273-318-340, for instance. Bore is the only thing that differentiates them (stroke is the same) but you can't bore a 273 and make a 340. Presumably water jackets and the like get in the way. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Alan, You've probably already thought of it but here's an idea. The basic blocks are the same but the 312 is bored out an extra 0.18" from the 272 and then stroked an extra 0.14" from the 272. Could you use the 272 block from Jim and build up a 312? |
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81nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5772 |
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I see the listing is down Steve, do you know where that boat ended up? |
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skutsch
Grand Poobah Joined: June-19-2008 Location: Racine, WI Status: Offline Points: 2874 |
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Hmmmm, I wonder if that 272 block would work well in a certain Atom or Starfire with fins, that I know happen to be missing an engine...
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81nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5772 |
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A big thank you to Pete B for making some phone calls. Jim Staib from Finewoodboats.com just delivered a complete Interceptor Y block to the house. We now have all of our Interceptor parts and duplicates of many. Of major importance was we got the exhaust manifolds. This motor was supposedly running when pulled out of a Chris Craft Cavalier but was replaced because it wasn't the correct engine for the boat. I'm not going to use the block since it's only a 272 but my hope is I have a functioning velvet drive now that I just need to reverse the pump on since this is a righty.
Brian has had the machine shop inspect and reject 2 312 blocks so far so we're still looking for a usable core, we'll get there eventually and then the fun begins. |
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ArtCozier
Platinum Member Joined: April-25-2012 Location: Orlando FL Status: Offline Points: 1023 |
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Steve, here is what I have "heard" or know about the evolution of the boat to CC's line. Leo found himself with too many irons in the fire. He had built a few boats and helped the owners with various issues that developed in the boats. He was running the ski schools, (two locations) with many employees. I think I recall him saying that he was also managing some residential rental properties that he had acquired. He was fulltime in law school, and his wife was about to make him a Dad, so with her strong encouragement, he decided to sell the boat company. He approached CC and was turned down. Henry Holmes, who was an active skier and competitor at the time, spoke with the Meloons, (the owners of Correct Craft) and suggested to them that Leo did in fact have a good product that he thought would take off. Having respect for what Henry had told them, the contacted Leo and agreed to take the molds, the unfinished boats, the parts inventory, and the Nautique name. Most of you know that Ski Nautique is French for "Water Ski." Leo and his wife had visited France and decided that it was a good name for the boat. In return for the above, CC agreed to pay Leo some sum of money that I have never heard a hint of the amount and a certain number of boats spread over some number of years for use in his ski school and repair some of the issues that had developed with some of the existing boats. He also was allowed to purchase boats for resale.
And that's about all I know about the acquisition by CC. |
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"Art"
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skutsch
Grand Poobah Joined: June-19-2008 Location: Racine, WI Status: Offline Points: 2874 |
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HA! Yes, that you are sure of!!!
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81nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5772 |
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Well We're pretty sure it had an Interceptor in it.
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skutsch
Grand Poobah Joined: June-19-2008 Location: Racine, WI Status: Offline Points: 2874 |
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Got it! That is what I thought, but just wanted to be sure. So its really anybodies guess as to how this boat was originally configured (engine, manifolds, windshield, gauges, etc) other then early photos. Too bad there are not any build sheets!!! I bet there are a bunch of old photos and probably movies somewhere from people who went to Leo's Ski School... |
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81nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5772 |
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Steve not entirely sure on your first question but it doesn't appear that Correct Craft came into the picture until after Leo built the first 12 boats. Before Leo had any boats built he had Bob Conn, a Miami boat builder produce one prototype or test boat from the mold, This is the boat in this thread, It is the first Ski Nautique built before he contracted with another boat builder to have the 12 production boats built. So there are or were 13 Glass Craft Ski Nautiques before Correct Craft purchased the mold and rights to the name. |
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75 Tique
Grand Poobah Joined: August-12-2004 Location: Seven Lakes, NC Status: Offline Points: 6107 |
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Steve, Yes this is Leo's first Nautique. Not the first CC Nautique. I believe there has been a little bit of discussion as to whether this is the prototype, followed by Number 1 or if the this one (the prototype) is also regarded as No 1. Not sure where the first two CC nautiques are, but it is my understanding, the one at the factory that Art takes to the Masters is CC Nautique No 3.
It is also my understanding that Leo didn't involve CC in the early process. That he went to them after he had a few under his belt. |
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_____________
“So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
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skutsch
Grand Poobah Joined: June-19-2008 Location: Racine, WI Status: Offline Points: 2874 |
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Art; Did Correct Craft consult with Leo on the boats that he built? or did he contact CC after he had already built his first "production" run? Also, just so I am clear this is believed to be the first production boat that Leo built not the first Correct Craft built Ski Nautique? I know it probably doesn't matter, but just trying to keep everything in context... |
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ArtCozier
Platinum Member Joined: April-25-2012 Location: Orlando FL Status: Offline Points: 1023 |
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thanks Pete. Pete, I think Interceptor supplied engines with both types of manifolds at the same time, depending on what the boat manufacturer ordered. It appears to me that in CC's case, boats with deep motor wells (or high floorboards) got high manifolds, those with adequate room next to the engine for the low manifolds got those. The low ones flood pretty easily if water backs up in the exhaust system,. |
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"Art"
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illiniball2000
Senior Member Joined: June-27-2014 Location: Elgin,IL Status: Offline Points: 386 |
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Alan,
This is really cool. i finally had a chance to sit down and read the entire post. Cant wait to see this thing. |
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Beer is my friend
87 Dominique Had 67 Starflite |
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81nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5772 |
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thanks Pete. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Alan,
Expect a call shortly. You may need to purchase the complete engine but see what Jim has to say. I don't know the year of the Y block so I don't know if it has the early round or later rectangular exhaust manifolds? I'm also checking with others. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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I'm on it!!
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quinner
Grand Poobah Joined: October-12-2005 Location: Unknown Status: Offline Points: 5828 |
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I can help drink the beer out of your fridge :)
Way cool stuff Alan, such a great group on this site, amazing!!! |
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75 Tique
Grand Poobah Joined: August-12-2004 Location: Seven Lakes, NC Status: Offline Points: 6107 |
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The original source of this makes me throw up in my mouth a little, but in this case, there is a little truth to it.....
"It takes a village" What a great project and how cool that folks are jumping in to be a part of it. |
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_____________
“So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
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