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Overheating at idle and troll

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    Posted: June-18-2016 at 11:09pm
My boat is overheating at idle and at a slow troll. It was at 220 and the buzzer went off. Once you get moving fast it cools right back down. I just changed the impeller and it is all fine. I even opened it again to make sure the key was there. There is nothing clogging the intake underneath. I even flushed it backward with a hose at the inlet tube incase anything was there. Am I supposed to be running with the "flush O matic" or whatever the clear canister that the hose hooks up to during the season? It has that one way valve with a spring holding it shut. Could that be jammed not releasing unless it's high suction from the pump? Could my thermostat be sticking? Is it possible to get a thermostat at an auto parts store since it's an American V8 block?
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Adam
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-18-2016 at 11:26pm
Adam,
An overheat at idle to slow speed typically indicates the RWP is sucking air. Tighten and check all your hose connections. Personally I'd get rid of that "trash-o-matic" The early ones broke but supposedly they corrected that problem but, I also don't trust the spring operated valve in them. That would actually be the first thing I'd check for sucking air.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2016 at 10:57am
troll? You fishin?

Likely not the thermostat if it works with more rpms, that's indicative of an air leak on the suction side or compromised impeller. just like Pete sez. Also don't dismiss that the impeller may be compromised again due to running air.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2016 at 11:18am
get rid of the flush pro thing and put in a timmy t if you must have one
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaccoBouncer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2016 at 11:41am
ok. Is that something I will find at a regular marine supply store (they'll know what I'm asking for) or special order for nautique? I'm asking because when I search for it on West Marine etc a very nice looking ladies dress comes up. Don't get me wrong it's a nice dress. http://www.westmarine.com/buy/tommy-bahama--women-s-long-t-shirt-dress--P016375651
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2016 at 11:47am
google images #1 & #2 "timmy t correctcraftfan"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bb12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2016 at 11:48am
The Timmy T is a mod you do on your own with parts you can purchase at the hardware store. It's basically a 1" T fitting plumbed into your pickup line with a garden hose connector. Do a search and you'll find lots of info on it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaccoBouncer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2016 at 12:01pm
ok cool. How do you ensure it doesn't just dump water out the bottom or suck a bunch of air from hull pickup with out a check valve?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaccoBouncer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2016 at 12:03pm
The other thing is that the dress only comes in white. Total stain magnet. I have enough headaches thank you very much
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2016 at 12:18pm
Here's a thread on the "Timmy T" Trust us it works even though water will come out the hull pick up.

BTW, just ignore CQ molesting poor Tim!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaccoBouncer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2016 at 12:22pm
That picture is something I can't un-see.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaccoBouncer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-29-2016 at 10:57am
The root cause of my issue is that I received the incorrect Impeller for replacement. it was not as thick (for a Ford) and did not seal against the cover plate so it did not provide any pressure. The pressure I got was when I was at speed and it cam eform the hull inlet. I will be getting a replacement soon.
I put the old one back in and I run so cool that it doesn't register ont he gauge. i think this means my thermostat is stuck open. can I get a thermostat at an auto parts store (Chevy 350 1997) or should I order one for a marine application? best place to get it?
In my diagnosis process I removed the spring from the O'matic thing just to to make sure that wasn't the reason I wasn't getting cooling at idle. So basically it's a Timmy T with a free moving check valve now.
Thanks,
Adam
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-29-2016 at 11:30am
Nautique parts or Skidim would be best, marine ones sometimes run at a lower temp than a car,car ones might not have that low of a setting.those 2 places should know what temp yours should be running at. Marine 'stats many times have a greater flow and or by passes built in
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-29-2016 at 1:50pm
The carbureted Marine thermostat for boats running raw water pumps is a 140 degree thermostat. The later fuel injected boats switched to a 160 degree thermostat.
Most passenger cars run a 195 degree so don't use one of them.
I have been told that Marine engines use a lower temp to avoid rapid corrosion inside the engine block.
Now that you have found the correct new impeller buy 2. Keep one in your boat as a back up.   It will save you in the future.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-29-2016 at 2:40pm
Most are 160 and is recommended
the 143 is for running in brackish water without closed cooling
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-30-2016 at 4:47am
I installed one of the Timmy T's last weekend. Very easy install and much easier to hook up the hose for running on the driveway. Nice Job on that idea Tim.
My 95 did have 1" hose so it was slightly different than your picture which had a 3/4 fitting in it but it was your idea and a very good one at that. Thanks for sharing.    All installed and I think it was under $20 bucks. Mark
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote a0128 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-30-2016 at 3:09pm
Originally posted by GottaSki GottaSki wrote:

Most are 160 and is recommended
the 143 is for running in brackish water without closed cooling


What!??! No - totally wrong.

160 degree t-stat is for the fuel injected GT-40. The 143 degree t-stat is for the carb'd version. Has nothing to do with the kind of water you are running in.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-30-2016 at 3:16pm
I've always understood it that way too, but you can usually trust what GottaSki posts. I'd like to learn his reasoning actually.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-30-2016 at 4:27pm
Being around saltwater boats when Dad bought his PCM powered boat, 140's were recommended for salt. With in reason the cooler the better. Now this was way before FI. Might be a good reason why you started seeing closed cooling and the Sea Maxx line of engines. Exhaust risers and upper thermostat covers are the parts to watch,risers sometimes only making it 5 seasons
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-30-2016 at 5:41pm
Yes, more crystallization of salt occurs, That appears to be the main motivation for the recommendations.   I could find some references in Mercruiser docs, harder to find in PCM. But the chemistry and metallurgy is the same.

Higher temps from the 160 will produce more power and better efficiency; heavily debated but it follows prevailing wisdom.
Also, as any man worth his salt knows , hot slugs in cold jugs makes for scuffing and more wear.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-30-2016 at 5:54pm
Lots of barefooting with a 160 doesn't leave much room for error...

So you consider 160 a cold jug? Isn't this why though "marine" builds have looser slug rings?

stolen from the internet:
Marine engines need more clearance between the piston and cylinder wall because of two things.
1. The pistons are under a greater heat load and run hotter, hence, they are expanded more. Remember, aluminum expands a lot with heat.
2. Marine blocks run cold and therefore don't expand as much as automotive blocks. So you need .002 more clearance so the the piston doesn't scuff in the bores.

^kinda the chicken or the egg for reason #2 though. Marine blocks run cold because we use low thermostats.

So why did the marinizers ever go with 143 thermostats is the REAL question?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-30-2016 at 6:38pm
Oh, I see!
And regret if my attempt at a funny failed!

I think I'm more wary of barefooting with a too-cold block.

So the pistons run hotter from sustained load, running a colder block seems to exacerbate the already substantial differences in expansion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-30-2016 at 6:46pm
So gimme some numbers. What's colder and what's too-cold?

I'm with you on too cold though, why I ditched the PCM 454 housing for a Mercruiser. Now at least it maintains 160. If I had an electric water pump like the offshores I would run a higher thermostat no doubt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaccoBouncer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-04-2016 at 12:20pm
***************!   I have company coming over for the day to play on the lake. I finally got the new thermostat. DIM wasn't sure it was going to be the correct one because of the style switch that year. The plan was to open it up and see if we have a match. I opened up what I think is the right location and there isn't one there? Am I at the correct spot and what order and orientation do the thermostat and gaskets go in? Do I have it correct, see pic?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tryathlete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-04-2016 at 12:39pm
Turn it over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tryathlete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-04-2016 at 12:41pm
Little gasket then Thermostat goes into the recess (turn yours over). Big Gasket goes next. Make sure you get ALL the old gasket off first or you'll be leaking water.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaccoBouncer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-04-2016 at 12:45pm
ok thanks. You guys are the best!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john_33612 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-04-2016 at 1:06pm
check your water pump housing for wear , old impeller will swell , new impeller is the correct size , put impeller in housing , should be above lip , no way to fix , buy new housing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaccoBouncer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-04-2016 at 1:52pm
Thanks. Thermostat works. When it opens at 160 the temp drops to like 120 then slowly swings back up to 160 repeat. Normal?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tryathlete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-04-2016 at 3:46pm
Did u put the new one in already?
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