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74SkiNautique View Drop Down
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    Posted: July-10-2016 at 5:27pm
74 SN, 351W 1,460 hours. Its going to need new points for next season most likely. What are the pros and cons of converting to electronic? I've heard good things about both points and good things about electronic.

Also: I need to change the plug wires as I'm sure they're either original or at least 20+ years old. Are these the ones many of you all use? I have a Mallory Dist.

Plug Wires
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DVskier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-10-2016 at 9:58pm
Hey Pete, customer for your Pertronix pitch!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joby1969 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-10-2016 at 10:05pm
i got rid of points in my 1980.
my 1980 SN is mad at my 2009 HD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-11-2016 at 12:18am
Chris,
Read up on all the pros and cons of each system and then make the choice. If you do go with the EI conversion, make sure you save the point set mounting plate.

You need wires?? Why do you think that they are bad? My 64 has the originals on it and they are fine. That's 52 years old!! Please don't become a "parts changer"


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 74SkiNautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-11-2016 at 12:35am
The plug wires seem okay overall but a couple of the boots for the spark plugs are not snug and for $34 I think it's worth it to just have new ones.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fgroce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-11-2016 at 7:44pm
Hi I installed an electronic ignition in an 88 Ski Nautique 2001 with a 351 in it and it was the best upgrade I have done. No more weak starts, skipping or cleaning points. I replaced the points every year and said "It's just as good" Not. Go electronic and never look back. Enjoy your boat.

Frank
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For 28 years
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 74SkiNautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-12-2016 at 1:52am
I'm really thinking about switching. However, boat died on the lake tonight. Also died last week. I think the issues are unrelated. Last week the carb was flooding itself. First trip out after a new fuel pump. I did some research and replaced the o-ring on the primary needle/float adjustment (only the primary side was flooding). Today I think it was ignition related because I checked the barrels and they were not flooded, and no excessive exhaust fumes. It started missing after 20 mins of driving at 30 mph. I pulled back to idle and it stalled. Wouldn't restart. Let sit for 15 mins and it fired right up and ran great for another 10 mins and then started missing and died. Coil feels very hot. I replaced the coil three weeks ago because the old one tested bad last season.

Plugs are gapped properly, ballast resister checks out okay (it's a year old). I have not tested the new coil yet, I have not checked the resistance on the plug wires or main coil wire yet. That's next. Any ideas of what causes it to run great and then die off, let it sit, and then runs great?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-12-2016 at 2:02am
Remove the power wire from the coil turn the key to run and check the voltage on it. Then let us know what you have.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-12-2016 at 10:05am
What coil dd you buy?

The high voltage one's ( e.g. flamethrower) are more problematic than OEM.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 74SkiNautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-12-2016 at 12:36pm
Originally posted by SNobsessed SNobsessed wrote:

What coil dd you buy?

The high voltage one's ( e.g. flamethrower) are more problematic than OEM.


My dad ordered it from nautiqueparts.com

It is oil filled and says it's okay to run horizontally. Not sure exactly which one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hal2814 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-12-2016 at 1:16pm
I personally really like having electronic ignition. It's just one less thing to worry about. But I didn't do a conversion kit. I replaced my Prestolite distributor with a new Mallory with EI built in. My distributor had problems that a conversion kit wouldn't fix like a broken tooth and worn springs. The points in my old distributor were working fine and I probably wouldn't have made the jump for that alone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 74SkiNautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-13-2016 at 4:58pm
Few updates for you guys.

My new plug wires came in last night and I installed them today. I noticed 3 wires were very loose connecting to the distributor, and those loose ones were black. So I suspect they were arcing. Also, several wires were twice the resistance of the new ones. After installing I fired it up and ran it on the driveway until full water temp was reached.

Second thing I checked was the voltage on the POS side of the coil. Should be 9v because of the ballast resistor. It read 9v right after startup (cold coil). After 10-15 mins of running the voltage was down to 7.5-8 volts. The coil felt warm (only running 10 mins or so). When I got stuck on the lake the coil was almost too hot to touch, but I didn't have a volt meter to check it then. I suspect the voltage was lower than 7.5 when it got that hot. Boat fires up with the bump of the key when cold.

This coil is new, ordered from Nautiqueparts.com. Oil filled, and requires external resistor. Maybe it's faulty? I'm going to remove it tomorrow and check the resistance.

Question: what coils are you guys running who have a stock setup? (Ballast resistor, points)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-14-2016 at 12:29am
If your wires were arcing on the cap you may want to replace that also.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 74SkiNautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-14-2016 at 2:26am
I believe the arcing was on the cap that came on the boat when we got it 11 years ago. I checked each hole and it was shiny so I got lucky. None the less the 74 has nice new PCM wires and feels loved. Now I need a coil and then it's off to the lake to test it out. And I'll bring a volt meter and a spare coil just incase! If a new coil keeps losing voltage when it's hot then I'll check out the ballast resister to make sure it's not resisting too much.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-14-2016 at 3:03am
I installed a Electronic system on my brothers Supra, 351W, we used a GM HEI unit that sits on the ford distributor and it worked out very well. Bought it on the internet for around $100. If the HEI ever fails they are available in every parts store around. Worked for us.
We did upgrade the wires and opened the plug gaps to handle the increase plug voltage.
They come with a vacuum advance unit that can be removed to save space and boats don't benefit from vacuum advance systems. One negative they are about 3/4 inch larger all the way around than stock so look and make sure your engine has space to install one of these.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-14-2016 at 9:56am
Originally posted by 74SkiNautique 74SkiNautique wrote:

I believe the arcing was on the cap that came on the boat when we got it 11 years ago. I checked each hole and it was shiny so I got lucky. None the less the 74 has nice new PCM wires and feels loved. Now I need a coil and then it's off to the lake to test it out. And I'll bring a volt meter and a spare coil just incase! If a new coil keeps losing voltage when it's hot then I'll check out the ballast resister to make sure it's not resisting too much.


Hi 74 SN

Can't help but notice while reading your posts that you don't seem to have looked under the distributor cap yet and you "think you may need new points next year"

That cap that's at least 11 years old probably doesn't look too good inside. The points,condenser and rotor probably aren't great either.

It's probably time for a set of points, rotor,condenser and cap now

One thing to know about your ballast resistor is that as it heats up the resistance goes up so your voltage getting to the coil will be lower just like you've seen. You went from 9 v cold to 7.5 or so hot. That's not a problem.

You talk about the resistor resisting too much, you should be worried about it not having enough resistance. The typical ballast resistor should be about 1.2 ohms cold and being a resistor it will get hot in use and like I said resistance goes up. More resistance will give you lower coil voltage,and less heat in the coil

Maybe to sum it up........it's tuneup time
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-14-2016 at 10:28am
What Keno said
Here's a picture with part #s of all the parts (except the condenser) you can get them at a good local auto parts store.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 74SkiNautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-14-2016 at 1:43pm
I guess I wasn't clear, the points, condenser, cap and rotor are maybe 2 years old with 30 hours on them. What I was saying was that when we first got the boat, the old cap was burned and ruined the wires then. We replaced everything except the wires.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertskier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-14-2016 at 1:55pm
Check the voltage at the input to the resistor as well. You may have some IR loss through the key/ignition circuit. The voltage at the resistor input should be close to battery voltage at all times. The only voltage drop should be across the resistor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 74SkiNautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-15-2016 at 12:13am
My dad suggested maybe the condenser is going bad?? Would that effect running great for 20 mins or so and then missing/stalling until it sits for 15 mins or so?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-15-2016 at 12:34am
Could be and one of the reasons a condenser can go bad is a bad distributor ground. You could take off the hold down bolt and clamp and make sure everything is clean. If you have a wire wheel that would be great but a dremel or scotchbrite pad would work. You then might want to replace the condenser too. After my Dad had similar trouble on a saltwater boat I added a ground wire to my distributor just in case.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-15-2016 at 9:22am
Originally posted by gun-driver gun-driver wrote:

What Keno said
Here's a picture with part #s of all the parts (except the condenser) you can get them at a good local auto parts store.


The Standard Motor Products condenser to go along with the picture from Gun Driver is part number AL-118.

If it's bad the points are gonna be arced and pitted so they might as well be replaced together.

Don't know if you've looked under that cap in the last 2 years but you should, it might tell you some thing

EDIT these parts are for a Prestolite distributor and I noticed that you have a Mallory while rereading this whole thread. These parts won't work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-15-2016 at 9:53am
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:



The Standard Motor Products condenser to go along with the picture from Gun Driver is part number AL-118.

If it's bad the points are gonna be arced and pitted so they might as well be replaced together.


And I'd like to add that it doesn't take very long to trash the point contact faces with a bad condenser. Also, since the transition to China, condensers are know to be bad right out of the box!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-15-2016 at 10:11am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

You need wires?? Why do you think that they are bad? My 64 has the originals on it and they are fine. That's 52 years old!! Please don't become a "parts changer"


If you change to EI, check the install manual. My Mallory states that you DO NOT use solid wires, ie stainless or copper core.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 74SkiNautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-15-2016 at 12:09pm
Yeah it's always best to change the points and condenser together, Pete.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatsat67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-15-2016 at 3:16pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:



The Standard Motor Products condenser to go along with the picture from Gun Driver is part number AL-118.

If it's bad the points are gonna be arced and pitted so they might as well be replaced together.


And I'd like to add that it doesn't take very long to trash the point contact faces with a bad condenser. Also, since the transition to China, condensers are know to be bad right out of the box!


Agreed, they don't put as much effort into the production of old school tech like that any more.

I have an NOS points dizzy 87 and newer style Prestolite on my rig. All I have done since it was installed is necessary lubrication of the weights, shaft, and points cam. 0 adjustments and its approaching or may be slightly over 900 hours.

We have been over this debate 10000 times. If you are supplying proper voltage via your ballast resistor, are running a proper coil, and all of the dizzy bits aren't worn out aside from crappy new points and condensers points really aren't a maintenance item.

The will run indefinitely if everything else is in check. They will start just the same as any EI set up unless the coil is of greater output or it is a MSD style multi spark system.

If they burn up EVERY year there is something else wrong with the ignition system.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 74SkiNautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-16-2016 at 12:43am
Good to know phatsat67. My grandpa's 1989 SN has about 730 hours. The points and condenser were not replaced until a couple years ago when it has 700 hours. I also think the new points are platinum coated, and older ones were solid platinum. I could be wrong, but inoticed that sanded and gapped points seem to last shorter than brand new ones, I guess because sanding/cleaning them removed the platinum coating? I'm pulling the cap off soon to inspect them. I don't think I've looked in there in 3 years or so when we replaced the cap, rotor, and points/condenser.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 74SkiNautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-17-2016 at 4:13pm
Okay I've done some more testing on the driveway today.

First I checked the points. Gap was around .022 and they call for .020. Points appeared to be dirty so I ran some fine sandpaper through them and cleaned them up. Reset the gap at .020. Rotor was a tad loose so I bent the tab that holds it on and it's snug. Contacts inside the cap look good.

I checked the resistance of the resistor. It was about .7- .9 ohms cold. After running it was around 5 ohms. Does that seem high?? Also, the voltage of the system when running was 12.9. That reading was taken from the positive battery cable going into the starter solenoid. Voltage going into the resistor was 11.9. Shouldn't that be the same 12.9??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-18-2016 at 10:52am
Not unusual to lose 1V thru ignition switch & breaker.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatsat67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-18-2016 at 11:53am
Yes, not unusual but needs to be addressed. If the voltage isn't proper coming out of the ballast resistor it could be supplying too little to the coil.

Did you get a running reading of voltage at the positive coil wire at the coil?

Is it a Chevy? Ford calls for .017-.018 on the gap. Dwell is about 26 Degrees. If you don't have a nice timing light or a dwell meter you can pick up a nice Inova brand from o'reilly auto parts that will perform both functions as well as give you voltage readings and a read out of proper RPM to check old tachometer operation.

Timing light is around 100 bucks. Real talk, properly setting points gap. You should be loosening the Dizzy to move it by hand to the highest point on the points cam so you should be re setting your timing any time you do a points swap or adjustment.
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