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Damage boat project

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Gary S View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-04-2017 at 3:55pm
Originally posted by Morfoot Morfoot wrote:

   I would brush epoxy straight onto what you have and use the brush bristles to force epoxy in between the delaminating plies. 120 grit or coarse scotchbrite pad to rough up the epoxy.
. Now you have patterns to go by when you cut your cloth to epoxy in place.
.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tryathlete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-04-2017 at 3:55pm
Would this glass be of use?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-04-2017 at 3:53pm
Epoxy. Don't go to THAT store!!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-04-2017 at 3:32pm
Epoxy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike9812121298 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-04-2017 at 3:13pm
quick question, theres a local store that sells the fiberglass and resin. the lady on the phone was telling me that i would want to use vinyl ester resin over epoxy. what do you guys recommend
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Morfoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-04-2017 at 1:37pm
Late to the game on this one guys but a tarnished Starr texted me to have a looksee at this thread and add my $.03 worth. Glad to see you grind it all the way down and get rid of the adhesive fill that you added. Smart Move! You're on the right track Mike but I would NOT use chop glass on any of that repair. For strength I would definately use woven cloth.

Now that you've got it reinforced from the bottom I would brush epoxy straight onto what you have and use the brush bristles to force epoxy in between the delaminating plies. once you have done that, put some wax paper down then weigh it down with a half empty bag of sand or a gallon ziplock bag not quite full to compress the delaminated/damaged plies together. Using a sandbag will conform to the shape of the bottom of the hull. Once it cures then do a light sand with a 120 grit or coarse scotchbrite pad to rough up the epoxy. Wipe it down with acetone.

Use a big piece of transparent plastic and lay it down on the repair. Use a fine line sharpie and trace each individual layer of cloth starting with the smallest first and continue with each larger ply until you have no more layers to trace. Now you have patterns to go by when you cut your cloth to epoxy in place. I would add 3 final plys on top of however many initial plies you have with each one 1/2 inch larger than the next. Several plies adhereing to the hull is better than just one big one. Stronger longer lasting repair if it's done this way. Once all the plies are down then weigh it down with those sandbags as compression is KEY to a STRONG repair!

If any of this confuses you then don't hesitate to give me a call at 77Zer0 31six 6nine6three and I'll be happy to explain better than the above.

Nice find and keep the pictures coming on the progress.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-04-2017 at 12:47am
I would not use something like that,chopped fibers do not have the strength that cloth or matt has. Nautiques are not originally constructed with chopped glass they use a cloth/mat layup. Many cheaper boats use chopped glass applied with a Chopper gun which mixes the resin and chops fiberglass thread and sprays it into a mold. I would lean towards something like the fifth one down here. Maybe Morfoot will see this and advise, he repairs fiberglass parts in the aviation world. A small roller like these would be nice too to work out the excess resin and bubbles as you layup the layers too
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike9812121298 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-04-2017 at 12:26am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike9812121298 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-04-2017 at 12:22am
Looking at fiberglass. What one would I want for this project and how much

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-03-2017 at 7:46am
Mike,
Don't forget poly covered blocks to mimic the strut and rudder base indentations in the hull bottom. Make them slightly oversize to allow for bedding (caulking) compound.
Lookin' Good!

One trick I've used for disbonded areas where they are too deep to get resin into is to drill small (about 3/32") holes through the top layer. Then when you prime the area with plain resin, the resin will flow into the disbonded layers. Injection with a syringe also woks in real tight spots.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KRoundy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-03-2017 at 2:01am
I think you are on the right track! You see no more delamination or cracks, right? Hard to tell from a couple of small pictures. Once you get to that time to glass it back up with the right glass and epoxy resin. Lots of places to source it here in the Seattle area. TAP plastics has a good selection of glass but make sure you get the right resin. There are some very good marinas (NOT WEST MARINE!) that carry what you need too. Up near me I've always been amazed at the selection and knowledge of the team at Harbor Marine in Everett.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike9812121298 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-03-2017 at 12:31am
I would have started glass but I only have the bondo resin that is not expoxy. How much glass should I order? Think this will work to start glass?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tryathlete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-03-2017 at 12:20am
Nice going Mike!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike9812121298 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-02-2017 at 11:06pm




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rolleronariver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-02-2017 at 9:38pm
I'm just here to watch and learn. Projects like this is why I love this forum! I"m learning a ton on here!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-02-2017 at 9:17pm
I was too slow typing Pete I was referencing Chris,I didn't mean to direct that to you   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-02-2017 at 9:03pm
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

But if he would start laying thin layers of thin new mat, each one being larger than the last, it would end up much like plywood in it's strength.

Correct. That's the suggested plan after the low spots and disbonding are addressed with the prime of straight resin and then the filled resin. I'm not talking about filling the complete area with filled epoxy!!

As far as glass goes, biaxial is my recommendation. Yes on US Composites.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-02-2017 at 8:33pm
But if he would start laying thin layers of thin new mat,each one being larger than the last, it would end up much like plywood in it's strength. Pete ,Tim or Tim Bob should have some good ideas. Mike check into US Composites for your glass supplies, medium cure epoxy might be best                                                                                                                       
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-02-2017 at 8:21pm
Mike,
Thanks for the pictures since they do show the disbonding concern.

Chris's idea is a good one. with bolting a board and plastic on the bottom of the hull to act as a form. Fairing the bottom can be done latter. Prime the area with straight epoxy resin especially where you see the disbonding. Then mix in some filler such as Cabosil or milled glass. Putty knife that into the disbonded layers and any low areas such as where you went through the bottom. From there, you are ready to start laying in glass. Have you looked for glass yet?

BTW, I suggest not using any more of the urethane adhesive.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-02-2017 at 8:21pm
That might be a good idea Chris. He'd have to make plates out of other plastic maybe to recreate the indentations for the underwater gear
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-02-2017 at 8:10pm
I see you broke thru. Still in kibitzing mode here. Here's an idea - somehow clamp some plywood up to the bottom side of that hole pattern. Maybe use some of that glue temporarily. Transfer the hole pattern to the plywood with 1/8 in. holes.

Then take out the remnant of the damage entirely. Then start the layers from scratch & you can redrill after it is all cured. If you put some plastic sheet over the plywood, the resin won't stick to it. I think a totally virgin patch will be stronger because there are less interfaces.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-02-2017 at 7:06am
Mike,
I just looked up 3M's 3532 and agree with what John states. This statement on McMaster's site is the concern "The thickest and most flexible structural adhesives, urethanes bond materials that expand and contract at different rates." Urethanes are fantastic adhesives but wrong for your hull repair. I'm very familiar with them since I was involved with an automation project using the Lord urethane equivalent for bonding metal components. For production, we were purchasing it in 55 gal. drums.

Now, I feel you are heading in the proper direction with taking the hull down more. You want to remove the gel in the bilge until you start to see some glass. You want the new glass to bond to the old glass and not the old bilge gel coat. I also feel strongly that you should grind out the cracks as previously mentioned. I'm still concerned about some lamination disbonding in the damaged area. Also, it's great you removed the iso-damp so you can get the repair over a larger area. Stay with traditional epoxy resins, fillers and glass.

I'm curious as to why you used the 3532. Is it a material you use at work? Did a friend recommend it?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike9812121298 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-02-2017 at 4:00am
Alright scratching the adhesive idea and going back to sanding. Had about 45 min to get some work done. Got the pads pealed up. Tomorrow the plan is to take it down some more.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-02-2017 at 2:16am
Mike, 3M 3532 is marketed as a semi flexible urethane construction adhesive for bonding materials such as concrete, rubber, wood, glass, and some plastics.. I am no expert, but I believe the semi-flexible property is something you would want to avoid at all cost when reinforcing a high stress area. I question whether the structure will be compromised with a semi-flexible layer, or any layer with unlike properties, between layers of fiberglass.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KRoundy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-01-2017 at 11:50pm
I'll wait for others to chime in on the hull repair, but welcome. I live up in Lake Stevens, but get together with Dreaming now and then to share Nautique stories.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike9812121298 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-01-2017 at 10:45pm
No I completely understand I don't want to want have to do it a second time. The adhesive was 3m 3532, its pretty strong stuff. I spent a long day out at Westport,wa on a fishing charter, so I'm gonna see what I can get done tonight. I'm gonna grind it down some more tonight. Basically I need to take it down to 1/4 inch thickness of the hull? Then just glass over 2 -4 inches?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fgroce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-01-2017 at 10:09pm
Hi awesome project boat. I do also hope you follow the advice of the guys on the forum. Everyone just wants you to be successful. The cost and labor will not be much more. But if you skimp on the repair and it fails people your boat could sink or worse people could get hurt. Be safe have fun fixing the boat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-01-2017 at 8:43pm
Mike,
Now that you've had a chance to read our comments and suggestions, we'd love to get some feedback from yourself. That would help us better help you with the project.

Are you getting any guidance from a friend? Also, I'd sure like to know what the grey stuff is you used. Hopefully it's not Marinetex!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flyweed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-01-2017 at 6:45pm
like my grandpa always said....."If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right."
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