Damage boat project |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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tryathlete
Platinum Member Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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Would this glass be of use?
http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40789&PID=525874 |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Epoxy. Don't go to THAT store!!!
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21133 |
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Epoxy
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Mike9812121298
Senior Member Joined: March-24-2017 Location: Seattle Status: Offline Points: 139 |
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quick question, theres a local store that sells the fiberglass and resin. the lady on the phone was telling me that i would want to use vinyl ester resin over epoxy. what do you guys recommend
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Morfoot
Grand Poobah Joined: February-06-2004 Location: South Lanier Status: Offline Points: 5312 |
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Late to the game on this one guys but a tarnished Starr texted me to have a looksee at this thread and add my $.03 worth. Glad to see you grind it all the way down and get rid of the adhesive fill that you added. Smart Move! You're on the right track Mike but I would NOT use chop glass on any of that repair. For strength I would definately use woven cloth.
Now that you've got it reinforced from the bottom I would brush epoxy straight onto what you have and use the brush bristles to force epoxy in between the delaminating plies. once you have done that, put some wax paper down then weigh it down with a half empty bag of sand or a gallon ziplock bag not quite full to compress the delaminated/damaged plies together. Using a sandbag will conform to the shape of the bottom of the hull. Once it cures then do a light sand with a 120 grit or coarse scotchbrite pad to rough up the epoxy. Wipe it down with acetone. Use a big piece of transparent plastic and lay it down on the repair. Use a fine line sharpie and trace each individual layer of cloth starting with the smallest first and continue with each larger ply until you have no more layers to trace. Now you have patterns to go by when you cut your cloth to epoxy in place. I would add 3 final plys on top of however many initial plies you have with each one 1/2 inch larger than the next. Several plies adhereing to the hull is better than just one big one. Stronger longer lasting repair if it's done this way. Once all the plies are down then weigh it down with those sandbags as compression is KEY to a STRONG repair! If any of this confuses you then don't hesitate to give me a call at 77Zer0 31six 6nine6three and I'll be happy to explain better than the above. Nice find and keep the pictures coming on the progress. |
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"Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman"
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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I would not use something like that,chopped fibers do not have the strength that cloth or matt has. Nautiques are not originally constructed with chopped glass they use a cloth/mat layup. Many cheaper boats use chopped glass applied with a Chopper gun which mixes the resin and chops fiberglass thread and sprays it into a mold. I would lean towards something like the fifth one down here. Maybe Morfoot will see this and advise, he repairs fiberglass parts in the aviation world. A small roller like these would be nice too to work out the excess resin and bubbles as you layup the layers too
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Mike9812121298
Senior Member Joined: March-24-2017 Location: Seattle Status: Offline Points: 139 |
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Mike9812121298
Senior Member Joined: March-24-2017 Location: Seattle Status: Offline Points: 139 |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Mike,
Don't forget poly covered blocks to mimic the strut and rudder base indentations in the hull bottom. Make them slightly oversize to allow for bedding (caulking) compound. Lookin' Good! One trick I've used for disbonded areas where they are too deep to get resin into is to drill small (about 3/32") holes through the top layer. Then when you prime the area with plain resin, the resin will flow into the disbonded layers. Injection with a syringe also woks in real tight spots. |
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KRoundy
Platinum Member Joined: August-23-2010 Location: Lake Stevens Status: Offline Points: 1702 |
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I think you are on the right track! You see no more delamination or cracks, right? Hard to tell from a couple of small pictures. Once you get to that time to glass it back up with the right glass and epoxy resin. Lots of places to source it here in the Seattle area. TAP plastics has a good selection of glass but make sure you get the right resin. There are some very good marinas (NOT WEST MARINE!) that carry what you need too. Up near me I've always been amazed at the selection and knowledge of the team at Harbor Marine in Everett.
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Previous: 1993 Electric Blue/Charcoal Ski Nautique
Current: 2016 Ski Nautique 200 Open Bow |
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Mike9812121298
Senior Member Joined: March-24-2017 Location: Seattle Status: Offline Points: 139 |
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I would have started glass but I only have the bondo resin that is not expoxy. How much glass should I order? Think this will work to start glass?
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tryathlete
Platinum Member Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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Nice going Mike!
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Mike9812121298
Senior Member Joined: March-24-2017 Location: Seattle Status: Offline Points: 139 |
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rolleronariver
Senior Member Joined: May-24-2016 Location: Rogers, AR Status: Offline Points: 195 |
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I'm just here to watch and learn. Projects like this is why I love this forum! I"m learning a ton on here!
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92 Sport nautique
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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I was too slow typing Pete I was referencing Chris,I didn't mean to direct that to you
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Correct. That's the suggested plan after the low spots and disbonding are addressed with the prime of straight resin and then the filled resin. I'm not talking about filling the complete area with filled epoxy!! As far as glass goes, biaxial is my recommendation. Yes on US Composites. |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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But if he would start laying thin layers of thin new mat,each one being larger than the last, it would end up much like plywood in it's strength. Pete ,Tim or Tim Bob should have some good ideas. Mike check into US Composites for your glass supplies, medium cure epoxy might be best
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Mike,
Thanks for the pictures since they do show the disbonding concern. Chris's idea is a good one. with bolting a board and plastic on the bottom of the hull to act as a form. Fairing the bottom can be done latter. Prime the area with straight epoxy resin especially where you see the disbonding. Then mix in some filler such as Cabosil or milled glass. Putty knife that into the disbonded layers and any low areas such as where you went through the bottom. From there, you are ready to start laying in glass. Have you looked for glass yet? BTW, I suggest not using any more of the urethane adhesive. |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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I see you broke thru. Still in kibitzing mode here. Here's an idea - somehow clamp some plywood up to the bottom side of that hole pattern. Maybe use some of that glue temporarily. Transfer the hole pattern to the plywood with 1/8 in. holes.
Then take out the remnant of the damage entirely. Then start the layers from scratch & you can redrill after it is all cured. If you put some plastic sheet over the plywood, the resin won't stick to it. I think a totally virgin patch will be stronger because there are less interfaces. |
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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Mike9812121298
Senior Member Joined: March-24-2017 Location: Seattle Status: Offline Points: 139 |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Mike,
I just looked up 3M's 3532 and agree with what John states. This statement on McMaster's site is the concern "The thickest and most flexible structural adhesives, urethanes bond materials that expand and contract at different rates." Urethanes are fantastic adhesives but wrong for your hull repair. I'm very familiar with them since I was involved with an automation project using the Lord urethane equivalent for bonding metal components. For production, we were purchasing it in 55 gal. drums. Now, I feel you are heading in the proper direction with taking the hull down more. You want to remove the gel in the bilge until you start to see some glass. You want the new glass to bond to the old glass and not the old bilge gel coat. I also feel strongly that you should grind out the cracks as previously mentioned. I'm still concerned about some lamination disbonding in the damaged area. Also, it's great you removed the iso-damp so you can get the repair over a larger area. Stay with traditional epoxy resins, fillers and glass. I'm curious as to why you used the 3532. Is it a material you use at work? Did a friend recommend it? |
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Mike9812121298
Senior Member Joined: March-24-2017 Location: Seattle Status: Offline Points: 139 |
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3238 |
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Mike, 3M 3532 is marketed as a semi flexible urethane construction adhesive for bonding materials such as concrete, rubber, wood, glass, and some plastics.. I am no expert, but I believe the semi-flexible property is something you would want to avoid at all cost when reinforcing a high stress area. I question whether the structure will be compromised with a semi-flexible layer, or any layer with unlike properties, between layers of fiberglass.
I have restored several boats prior to my current project. Although they turned out nice cosmetically, I now know that none of them was done to highest standards with the proper materials due to inexperience and lack of knowledge. The most important thing I have learned here is to listen to the experts. There is an unmatched wealth of experience here and they are passionate about their craftsmanship. I have asked more questions than I care to revisit and the experts here have been patient and helpful (with a few head SMHs at my ideas) and have led me to the proper techniques and materials. If you take their advice you will reap the rewards. |
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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
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KRoundy
Platinum Member Joined: August-23-2010 Location: Lake Stevens Status: Offline Points: 1702 |
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I'll wait for others to chime in on the hull repair, but welcome. I live up in Lake Stevens, but get together with Dreaming now and then to share Nautique stories.
I love the way those engines sound! I can't wait for summer. |
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Previous: 1993 Electric Blue/Charcoal Ski Nautique
Current: 2016 Ski Nautique 200 Open Bow |
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Mike9812121298
Senior Member Joined: March-24-2017 Location: Seattle Status: Offline Points: 139 |
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No I completely understand I don't want to want have to do it a second time. The adhesive was 3m 3532, its pretty strong stuff. I spent a long day out at Westport,wa on a fishing charter, so I'm gonna see what I can get done tonight. I'm gonna grind it down some more tonight. Basically I need to take it down to 1/4 inch thickness of the hull? Then just glass over 2 -4 inches?
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fgroce
Senior Member Joined: July-05-2016 Location: Georgia Status: Offline Points: 350 |
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Hi awesome project boat. I do also hope you follow the advice of the guys on the forum. Everyone just wants you to be successful. The cost and labor will not be much more. But if you skimp on the repair and it fails people your boat could sink or worse people could get hurt. Be safe have fun fixing the boat.
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FGroce
88 Ski Nautique For 28 years Now 2002 Ski Nautique |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Mike,
Now that you've had a chance to read our comments and suggestions, we'd love to get some feedback from yourself. That would help us better help you with the project. Are you getting any guidance from a friend? Also, I'd sure like to know what the grey stuff is you used. Hopefully it's not Marinetex! |
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flyweed
Gold Member Joined: July-11-2016 Location: WI Status: Offline Points: 539 |
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like my grandpa always said....."If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right."
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'93 Ski Nautique NWZ, Air Boom Tower
Drink Tonight..for tomorrow We Ride! |
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