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car painting, Jams or body first. |
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baitkiller 
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Joined: October-11-2011 Location: SW Florida Status: Offline Points: 1693 |
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 Topic: car painting, Jams or body first.Posted: October-29-2017 at 11:28pm |
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So getting ready to paint Cams truck ( a different color) and in my research i have discovered the auto-body version of a chicken or egg question.
So when asked the question of what to paint first considering a base / clear new color paint job but not a show car you get three main opinions: All have merit. 1) The largest group says to strip the doors and panels and paint everything at once but off the car. This idea, although popular is fraught with paint match and assembly damage risks. 2) Paint the jams first, soft edge tape and mask and pray then shoot the body. This is the second largest group and seems to be very labor intensive and time consuming plus your visible blend lines depend upon your masking ability. 3) A very minor opinion but one that I am fast embracing is to paint the outside first then shoot the jams. As your going to be color sanding and polishing later anyway the minimal over-spray is easier to deal with on the exterior then in the jams and blend lines wont be seen if they even exist. So what say you? Chicken or egg? |
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Jesus was a bare-footer.............
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gun-driver
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Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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Posted: October-30-2017 at 10:28am |
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What's the truck worth?
I would do #1 if the trucks worth bigger $'s #2 if not worth big $'s and don't get crazy worried over some overspray in the jambs |
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Duane in Indy
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Posted: October-30-2017 at 11:12am |
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#2 but forget the back taping. Remove any weather stripping that might stick to the jambs. Paint the jambs and under hood and trunk (if any) and the immediately shoot the rest of vehicle with doors, ect shut lightly but not latched. The main body coat will melt into the jambs and effectively create a no line edge. Clear same way. Work fast. Done many that way.
#1 will not work with a metallic finish as your pattern will show. |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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gun-driver
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Posted: October-30-2017 at 11:57am |
Good point never asked what color |
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baitkiller
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Posted: October-30-2017 at 12:34pm |
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That makes sense.
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Jesus was a bare-footer.............
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baitkiller
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Posted: October-30-2017 at 1:27pm |
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Yes, metallic charcoal so it has to be painted together. Also I suck at fitting panels. It took me for freaking ever to fit the gaps right and I aint gonna go through that again.
The truck is a beater, but a nice beater, first car for #1 son. 1992 Toyota 2WD, 22RE full engine rebuild, 3" lift on 16" wheels and 29" tires. Paint matched shell and tauna cover. 1500 for truck, 1100 in engine parts and machine work. 300 all new AC 1200 in suspension and wheels / tires 180 so far in sand paper and primer. I already spent more than its worth so that's why I'm painting it and not spending another 3K to have it done. |
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Jesus was a bare-footer.............
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Orlando76
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Posted: October-30-2017 at 2:09pm |
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Maaco.
The best vehicle I ever owned was similar deal as the one you described but 1/2 Ton GMC with 4.3 with a straight clean body. I couldn’t see giving it a real paint job so I took it to Maaco and had them do their top of the line package. I did reject the first two paint jobs (first time was real good but completely wrong color) but the 3rd one was actually pretty good and the finish was beyond the $900 they charged me. The finish lasted about 7 years and another 180k miles. |
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Please support The Cystic Fibrosis Foundation
1976 Ski Nautique 351 Escort 1993 Ski Nautique purple and black 351 HO PCM |
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baitkiller
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Posted: October-30-2017 at 2:27pm |
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I actually looked at Maaco in town last month. Nice guys and all but some real crappy work seen in the drive. I think it was $1200 for two stage paint, no dents. Not bad really.. but... Also I'm in South Florida. Unless really good clear is used the sun will kill it in a couple years.
I figure I'm in this deep, may as well keep swimming. Why else do I have that big compressor and those HVLP guns? Thats what my wife keeps asking me anyway.. :) |
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Jesus was a bare-footer.............
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jbear
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Joined: January-21-2005 Location: Lake Wales FL. Status: Offline Points: 8193 |
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Posted: November-06-2017 at 12:53am |
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Wow...Cam's 1st truck. Seems like just yesterday we were down there and he was just a kid. Nice job Dad...he is gonna like this.
BTW....howz his leg doing? john |
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"Loud pipes save lives"
AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
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MrMcD
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Posted: November-06-2017 at 4:37am |
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Nice project truck for you and your son. Even with the investment where can you get a vehicle with all those new reliable parts for that cost. It should be a great vehicle for him.
Now I warn you, I did the exact same with both my boys when they were in High School.. Son # 1, we finished his, new engine, brakes, suspension, Clutch and interior. Built it to be reliable for his next couple years of School. All was great. I had to go out of town for work for a week. When I returned he had installed a Turbo, took it to the drags and blew the new engine. I blew a gasket also but we fixed it and I taught him some about tuning with a turbo. Now he has mastered tuning and currently is making almost 900 HP at the rear tire and has not blown an engine in several years. Son #2, his uncle gave him a S-10 Chevy pickup with a bad engine. We built a new engine, replaced the clutch brakes, AC got it running perfect and then tackled body work and painted it, new tires and rims and he had a great truck that could take him through school. Couple months after completion he comes to me and says, Dad a guy wants to buy my truck and I found a Z28 with a blown motor to replace it. So we did it again. Z28 turned out great, just a new engine in this one, we did it at home. Drove it about a year and comes to me once again, same story, he has a buyer for his Z28 and found a nice BMW but it has a blown clutch. Financially son #2 was way ahead of number one, he kept upgrading till he had a very nice 525i BMW and was never really out of pocket much cash. Son #1 found out racing is for those with income not students. Good lessons and great memories for the kids when we look back. I hope your son really appreciates what you guys are doing and enjoys his new ride! |
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baitkiller
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Posted: November-06-2017 at 6:29pm |
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Thanks fellas.
John, Cams leg is fine. Its his butt that hurts from me kicking it! That kid is gonna use all my whip and Ill none left for the other two! Im kidding, Cams a great kid with a heart as big as all of outdoors but he does test me some days. Hey MD, I see where some folks mix clear with base for a single stage for use under hoods and back of tailgates, areas that don't need full two part gloss. Any thoughts on this? |
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Jesus was a bare-footer.............
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jbear
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Posted: November-07-2017 at 2:28am |
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Glad to hear his leg is fine......the rest of him is gonna be ok as well! I bet your father was thinking the same stuff about you.
john |
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"Loud pipes save lives"
AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
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Dreaming
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Posted: November-07-2017 at 10:08pm |
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I've done a couple of cars, all of them got the jams shot first, and then masked. I like Duane's Idea, but I don't work that fast, so I don't think that would work for me. Roll the tape in the jam, so it acts like a weather strip (the end profile should look like an "o" Tape along the body line, I might even get some caulking backer at HD and wrap tape around that so that I had a tight seal. With base clear, you need to work somewhat quickly to get the chemical bond between base and clear, so mind your working times if you end up leaving something for a little bit, you can shoot yourself in the foot in a hurry if you aren't paying attention.
Single stage metallic should go straight to the garbage.... I am sure guys who paint all the time can make it work, it has frustrated me more than I can say, and then I've had to sand it off.... ugg. . Do the base clear route, you'll be much happier, if there was ever a question in the first place. BTW, for good paint, you'll probably be in the 1200-1500 range by the time you're done. (1.gal base, 1 gal clear, plus your reducers, tape, paper, sanding stuff, filters, etc... lots of consumables here) There is no financial gain by painting it yourself... its like a stringer job on a 2001, you'd better enjoy doing it, cause that's all you'll get out of it. Certainly not trying to rain on your parade, I have enjoyed painting in the past, now that I have kids, I have other priorities. Once I am old, I might try it again. Here is my last paint job... Summit paint, not a super fun experience... I would spend the extra on the PPG if I were to do it again 
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baitkiller
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Posted: November-08-2017 at 8:53am |
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Love love your Bronco. That was my dream ride when I was 16.
Thanks for the advise. I have it down and straight and in epoxy primer right now. I have a guy coming tonight to give me a quote on painting it. Im just flat out of time. |
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Jesus was a bare-footer.............
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Dreaming
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Posted: November-08-2017 at 6:25pm |
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I'd love to claim the bronco, but I was only the paint and body work part for a friend who does fabrication for off road vehicles. I forget all the specs on this one, but it does have a Cummins 4bt under the hood, and puts down ~ 1100-1200 ft pounds of torque. It's a monster for sure. good luck with your paint, I think it's pretty cool that you got to spend time with your Kids making something they can drive with pride.
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Duane in Indy
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Posted: November-08-2017 at 7:52pm |
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I use Smartshoppers.com for all my paint needs. Kirker paint. Acrylic Urethane is my choice. They are based in Louisville, Ky. Best pricing that I have found.
They sell "kits" for ones that don't have a lot on hand left over from previous jobs. Very helpful customer service. |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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MrMcD
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Posted: November-10-2017 at 5:30am |
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I have painted, as someone said above once you have the body ready for paint the hard work is done. Find a good painter and for $200 and some beer let him come by and spray it. It really hurts when you have $1,200 in paint sprayed on and you need to remove it or fix it. I painted one. We got it done after a couple flubs. The next two I paid a friend to spray them. They turned out better and no head aches for me. Money well spent.
I did a Z28 Camaro, not the one for my son, an older one. I worked on the body till I felt it was ready. This guy picked up my car and took it to the local Mercedes shop booth and painted my car at night after hours at the dealership, It was unbelievable. He did a beautiful job. Baked on and done in one night. Cost a little more but really worth it. It was so pretty, wish I could have kept that car but had to sell it. |
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baitkiller
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Posted: November-12-2017 at 8:20pm |
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Progress is being made.
I have the truck 90% straight and two coats of epoxy primer on so it wont rust out from under me. (whew, that was a big step) Man I love my purple HVLP gun, That thing packs paint on like nobodies business. I spent a few lunch hours on YouTube learning how to fix the glitches and set it up right. It works so much better now than the last (first) time I used it 5 years ago. I think the new compressor may have a lot to do with it as well. Laid down three full bottles and never had to wait for air. My 'puter is giving me crap about SD cards so when I get that fixed Ill load some progress pics. Thanks for the help, Ill be back for more soon! |
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Jesus was a bare-footer.............
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baitkiller
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Posted: November-13-2017 at 3:43pm |
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Just went to another paint shop.. Ill deliver the truck primed and blocked.
Their response? $3200 Jeebus, Im gonna have to shoot this thing myself.. |
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Jesus was a bare-footer.............
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Dreaming
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Posted: November-13-2017 at 5:53pm |
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ouch.... a little on the steep sided for sure, but I bet their guys make more than minimum wage, and they probably use a higher grade of paint. at 3200, I'd definitely shoot it myself.
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jbear
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Posted: November-14-2017 at 9:44pm |
LOL....quess they didn't want this job. Uh......you know we love pictures...some before and after? And one of Cam's smiling face. Me and Eddie were just sayin' we bet he looks a bit different than the last time we saw him! john |
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"Loud pipes save lives"
AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
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8122pbrainard
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Posted: November-14-2017 at 11:15pm |
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John,
I admire you, the project and taking the time for the project.  This last spring my son came to me asking about painting his pretty beat up 4Runner off roader that BTW he beat up. The first question I had was how did he want it to look when done and he said like new. After explaining to him the amount of work HE would need to do. He backed down and realized the gains didn't warrant the work. So, I handed him the DA and told him to go to Ace and get a couple quarts of Rust-o-leum semi gloss black and some masking tape. Several days later I cranked up the compressor and showed him how to use the gun. This guy would be proud on how it turned out!! 
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baitkiller
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Posted: November-14-2017 at 11:38pm |
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"ol Earl. My man!
Update: I have been gifted access to a bonafied paint booth for the day for $200. I also have been granted access to the presence and advice of but not the hands of a professional car paint body guy for another $200. A few more hundies gets the hands. The catch is that it has to be Saturday..... and I am slammed with work. I just finished the last of the body line flaws and touched up the epoxy. Cam is out there now re masking so we can shoot the builder. Gonna be tough and tight few days but well get there. My puter decided it wont read SD cards all of a sudden but Ill see if I can log in on my phone with some. |
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Jesus was a bare-footer.............
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Gary S
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Posted: November-15-2017 at 12:31am |
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Thats perfect. I was going to suggest you do it yourself and get alot of lighting but with a booth you'll kill 2 birds with one stone-light and ventilation. I have never done a complete car only blend repairs but I did do this with Imron. Exceeded my expectations and survived Irma on the windward side of the house without a scratch. Even the Colinite is beading up like I did it last week. It was awful big for the garage which made t harder but with a smaller vehicle and the booth,you guy's I'm sure can do it! Can't wait to see pic's Good Luck.
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Duane in Indy wrote: