Battery not charging on 78 Tique |
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Swingmatt
Newbie Joined: November-02-2017 Location: Acworth Ga Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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Posted: May-27-2018 at 5:07pm |
Battery not charging on Tique, pulled alternator off and had bench tested at parts store; it passed with flying colors I was told. On a new battery I could barley start boat after 5 starts in 7 hours on water not running any electronics. On volt meter while running, testing battery terminals it reads around 12.2 which is also same charge on battery not running. I tested back of alternator and was getting close to 40 volts at 1000 rpm connected to battery lead and ground to block. Is there some kind of external regulator? Why would I be getting that high of reading off of alternator and nothing at battery? Thanks for help
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11061 |
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My crystal ball says you have a 302 commander so if you have the original alternator, you should have an external voltage regulator mounted on the back of the engine In the picture below it's the silver box behind the carburetor and next to the starter solenoid. It would fit in the palm of your hand. It's probably bad so your battery isn't charging. |
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Swingmatt
Newbie Joined: November-02-2017 Location: Acworth Ga Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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Yes, same motor that’s in pic. Would a bad voltage regulator have any adverse effects on anything else? Everything seems to function as it should, at least I think it does. I know in the past I’ve had a difficult time with parts for this motor, any suggestions for the voltage regulator? Thanks for the advice
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Everything is currently running on the battery. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Matt, Get the model of your alternator and do a search for a voltage regulator for the model. It's ether that or convert to an internally regulated alternator. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Matt,
I just did a very broad search for "alternator voltage regulator" and they even come up on Amazon. This one happens to be listed for a Ford. You mention having a problem finding parts for the 78. Any examples? Don't forget if you ever have a problem finding parts, always post the issue. BTW, do not go to your local marina or automotive parts store before asking us. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Matt, For piece of mind, call them up and see if they will test the alternator along with your voltage regulator. Did they even ask you about the regulator or even mention it? They should have since it's an integral part of the charging system. |
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Swingmatt
Newbie Joined: November-02-2017 Location: Acworth Ga Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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Ran out of time today, Gonna get back to this tomorrow.. thanks again for the guidance
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11061 |
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Matt
If you pull the regulator off and take a picture of it with the connector, that would help as far as finding a replacement. There might even be a mfgr's name and part number on it. Or tell how many wires and what color they are |
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Swingmatt
Newbie Joined: November-02-2017 Location: Acworth Ga Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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my regulator looks like the one in previous reply picture, not this one
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Swingmatt
Newbie Joined: November-02-2017 Location: Acworth Ga Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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for an update, i had a difficult time getting advanced auto parts to bench test alternator they didn't want to do it with out a part number, but after we determined my boat wasn't four wheel drive, JK. he was able to find that alternator under a 1978 f-350 with 7.5 motor. with that info they got me a voltage regulator that pairs with it,. it also crossed referenced with the original part mnf number on part. i installed it with no success. charging system still not charging. the red wire from regulator to battery side of starting solenoid was a little corroded so i also replaced it that didn't help either. only three wire in the 4 pin plug to regulator, no wire in the I spot red in A, purple in S and green in F spot, this motor was converted from points prior to my owner ship, the charging system has never functioned since ive owned it, wonder if that has anything to do with it? maybe not converted correctly? would changing over to alternator with built in regulator be the way to go?
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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Beginning to sound more like a poor connection somewhere. Start at the battery and work backwards. Both positive and negative terms. If a connector is not making a good solid contact then the alternator sees the wrong picture and won't charge correctly. It will still operate the starter because of high amp draw, but then will not charge with a lower amp draw. That would also account for the ultra high voltage. And if that is the case no amount of new alternators will fix it. Just a thought.
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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Swingmatt
Newbie Joined: November-02-2017 Location: Acworth Ga Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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Sounds like a good thought, that outta keep me busy for a while, lol. Lots of old wires, may be a good time to start replacing some of them anyways.
Thanks |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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matt,
Here's a older wiring diagram that does show an external voltage regulator. It may help in your wiring quest! |
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Swingmatt
Newbie Joined: November-02-2017 Location: Acworth Ga Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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That will definitely help! Thanks
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11061 |
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Matt I'll throw this out there for ya. This diagram is for an early PCM with a Prestolite alternator and a Prestolite external regulator. You haven't exactly answered the question of what kind of alternator and regulator you have so be careful using the diagram. It may or may not help. If your alternator and regulator cross referenced to a 78 F-350 with a 460 in it, you don't have much chance at all of having them be from Prestolite And.........if it came in a vehicle it probably isn't a marine alternator either. Maybe they found something similar but not exact. |
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Swingmatt
Newbie Joined: November-02-2017 Location: Acworth Ga Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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Thank you, my motor is a 302 commander, the alternator is the original alternator but was reconditioned just before me acquiring boat. And the regulator looks to be original, it’s motorcraft marine part # D4FF-10316-AA. Either way the wireing diagram should be a decent guideline for me to start with. Not sure how to post any pics on here. I Can only access forum from my smart phone or I’d post some.
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11061 |
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Do you have an ammeter or a voltmeter in the dash ?
If it's an ammeter, does it work? If it's a voltmeter, does it look like the rest of the gauges or maybe something that was added over the years? |
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Swingmatt
Newbie Joined: November-02-2017 Location: Acworth Ga Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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Yes, there is an ampmeter gauge in dash. Looks like the rest of gauges so I’m assuming it’s original with vessel. Boas never had a functioning charging system since in my possession so can’t say if gauge works or ever worked. Needle does flicker when ignition is turned or any other power is used, such as blower or bilge.
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11061 |
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With an ammeter, all of the alternator output goes through the ammeter on it's way to the battery. It's a long and winding road from the alternator output connection up to the ammeter, thru the ammeter to the ignition switch, then back to the battery side of the starter solenoid, then to the battery.
You can see most of this on the PCM diagram earlier in the thread (which could be drawn a little better) but for wiring setup with an ammeter, all of the alternator output goes through it no matter what brand we're talking about In other words a dead (open circuit) ammeter will prevent the alternator from charging the battery The flicker might mean it's working but I'd temporarily jumper around the ammeter with some 10 gauge wire and see if you're getting a charge to the battery. Also, with the new regulator installed what is your voltage on the Battery terminal on the alternator when the engine is running? |
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Swingmatt
Newbie Joined: November-02-2017 Location: Acworth Ga Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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Voltage from battery terminal on back of alternator at 600 rpm is 26-30 volts, and at 1200 rpm is around 60 volts. What exactly would I jumping to and from to get around ampmeter?
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11061 |
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Well with 60 volts coming out of it, I wouldn't do anything that could supply the electrical system. Edit keep reading through the thread and you'll see that 60 volts is what will happen when the alternator is not supplying the electrical system (oerating with no load on it) If you do you'll cook every 12v electrical piece of equipment on the boat. You really need to figure out your voltage regulation issue before doing anything You mentioned the regulator being a Motorcraft, what's the alternator? Since you can't put pictures here, what do you have for wiring connections on the alternator? So just to make sure you understand 60 volts will kill everything electrical on the boat so don't bypass the ammeter or really do anything till you get the voltage straightened out and it around 14 to 15 volts coming from the alternator |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Matt,
I feel it's time to take both the alternator and the voltage regulator to a reputable store. Ideally it would be a "auto electric" shop. I'm getting the feeling that Advanced Auto didn't do the job! Remember, both the alternator and the regulator work together. I'll ask again, did Advanced even ask you about the regulator when you first took the alternator in? |
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Swingmatt
Newbie Joined: November-02-2017 Location: Acworth Ga Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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They did not ask about regulator. I agree, stopped my marine shop today, they had no advise other than a referral to a shop that may be able to help. Gonna follow up on that in next day or two.
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Swingmatt
Newbie Joined: November-02-2017 Location: Acworth Ga Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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Motorcraft alternator as well. Red BAT, orange FLD, Black STA, and two ground post.
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11061 |
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Matt
There aren't many things that me and Pete agree about but this is turning into one of them. Your description of what wires go where and the colors associated with them really make no sense. It's not your fault, you got the boat this way Without help from an auto electric shop or having a Commander wiring diagram in front of you it's just guesswork and with electricity that usually doesn't turn out good. You did mention a while back thinking about a 1 wire alternator. Something like a 1 wire Delco marine alternator would probably bolt in pretty easily and it's hard to screw up the wiring with just one cable attached to the alternator. Pete would probably agree with me about that too. You would eliminate the external regulator, the old alternator and be cutting or taping off a few wires. Unless you're running lots of stereo stuff etc. the one wire would do just fine in your boat and it would be pretty easy to help with the wiring hookup. They're pretty cheap from places like DB electrical (around 60 dollars) |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Matt,
Here's some auto electric shops in Atlanta Ga. Tucker Auto Electric & Accessories 2016 Metropolitan Pkwy SW, Atlanta · (404) 766-3242 Directions Nelson's Auto Electric 226 Flat Shoals Ave SE, Atlanta · (404) 523-4212 Directions Mike's Auto Electric 1 Yelp review 118 Walton St NW, Atlanta · (770) 463-5050 Directions A BC Electric Automotive 3365 W Hospital Ave Ste A, Atlanta · (678) 502-7014 Directions Fleet Auto Electric Inc 624 Cordell Dr Ste B, College Park · (404) 766-6112 Also, is this how the regulator is wired to the alternator? |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Matt,
Your problem is taking my memory wayyyyy back to my high school shop classes. We had a combined project between auto shop and electronics shop. We were making switch/outlet boxes that we wired into externally regulated car alternators. The switching basically bypassed the regulator feeding I believe the alternator field. Then by regulating engine RPM, the alternator would produce 120 volts for power tools. You ether have bad wiring between the regulator and alternator or the regulator is bad or the wrong one. Double check the wiring or get both the alternator and regulator to one of those shops I posted. |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Evidently your memory is sketchy on geography class too.
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