New to me 72 Skier |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21131 |
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No opinions other than strongly suspecting that overall thickness may lead to cracking due to the lack of strength in the gel. Some say most/all the old needs to come off? Just make sure you do your homework.
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jarrell001
Newbie Joined: February-27-2017 Location: 27104 Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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“Wow. How much of the old gel are you taking down to avoid having too much thickness?”
Good question. We sanded aggressively with 180 grit. We are going though the gel in a few places, but by no means have we sanded all of the gel off. The whole boat seams to have been sprayed fairly thin at the factory. I assume you are concerned about spider cracking? I’m listening is you have any opinions on the matter. |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10719 |
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It's the same construction as a new Carter |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Smart money would say get a Carter from Skidim. They have a reputation to consider- if too many junk ones are coming back they will find a different supplier. Call and ask Vince if they are still problematic. They are all made overseas now that's why I rebuilt my original
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 947 |
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Anyone try the Airtex? Saw it in another thread. On sale now for $40 prime on amazon.
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21131 |
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The new carters (which is what PCM sells at a markup) have not been great as of late. Also not rebuildable.
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 947 |
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Leaning towards new but wanted to explore rebuild to save money, learn something and use the original part.
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7952 |
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Why not buy a new Carter Marine or PCM? Originality?
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10719 |
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Looking at your fuel pump pictures, the pump in the picture with a left hand holding a rusty metal fuel line is an AC dual diaphragm pump.
Then and Now can rebuild it, they won't sell the parts to do it yourself. Mille1sj had them do one recently and seems plenty happy with it. The others are Carter single diaphragm and look like oldies that can be rebuilt. Click on the link below for more info and there are some pictures of the newer Carter that maybe somebody can get apart and back together again, and also the older Carter that you can get a kit for and do yourself or have Then and Now do it for you. A few other places sell the kit for the Carter also. link. A good trip through a bead blaster after it's all disassembled will tell you if the Carter's are gonna survive since the kit has everything you need except the housings |
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3335 |
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Oh my. Consider a pepper-flake of crap will clog the idle fuel orifices and require the carb to come apart and wreck your outing, I'd throw the pumps and anything that caught their cooties away. |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21131 |
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Wow. How much of the old gel are you taking down to avoid having too much thickness?
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 947 |
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We are shooting the whole thing so a close match is great.
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21131 |
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You might be better off having a good gel guy tint some for you. The chances of finding something off the shelf that won’t be a noticeably different shade is slim to none. But if it’s cheap then there’s little harm in trying it. Gel repair is pretty easy and can always be redone if you don’t like the match... you’re only out the time and effort.
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 947 |
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That color chart is for gelcoat. Want to see if we can accomplish gel before spending $ and time on the other biggies like stringers and upholstery. Hoping to order gel soon.
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21131 |
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Check with Reid and Brad on the orange vinyl, ones been identified to match.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Then and Now Automotive. |
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 947 |
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And the pics:
First is our thought for matching the orange of the skier. Think we got a pretty good match on a premix. Next are pics of the pumps. Take a look and let us know thoughts on rebuilding. I have done a little searching for rebuild kits. Just not sure of their condition and or the right rebuild kit(s). Will start with one, hopefully someone knows the right kit for one of these pumps. Can the pumps be soaked in carb cleaner? |
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 947 |
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While we have more I took the info I could find off of some of the pumps. Think they are all carter. One is a Carter 988. One is a Carter 6. The last just says 41414.
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 947 |
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All old pumps. We have quite a few. Will take pics next time. Def a few old carters. We have an in-line filter on a short fuel line and could see that gas wasn’t coming. Line is only 2 ft total. I sucked through it and got gas to the filter. Sounds like a rebuild may be necessary. The one on the boat has a glass bowl on the bottom with what seems to be a filter in it.
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10719 |
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If you start the engine with a squirt of gas down the carburetor , it should fire and the pump will prime itself pretty easily. It may take 2 or 3 attempts for it to prime and keep pumping. Are you using clear tubing on the tank to fuel pump connection so you can see if it's sucking some gas? Or do your primer bulb suggestion to make sure the suction line is full before starting. If the pump(s) are bad, ease of rebuilding depends on what kind of pump it is and how old. An old original to the engine Carter..............pretty straightforward. A new Carter.............not so much An AC dual diaphragm pump, you can't buy a kit but Then and Now Automotive will rebuild it for you. A picture of the pumps would be good. There shouldn't be any oil slinging around the bellhousing. It can drip out the very bottom because it's not meant to be able to hold any leakage from the engine or transmission. Is it engine oil? Does the transmission have ATF in it or maybe 20W engine oil You have the rear main seal and a couple of oil gallery plugs and the big plug at the back of the camshaft that could leak engine oil. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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In this content, R&R is "remove and refit"
I wonder if the PO of the engine has the wrong rear main seal? |
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 947 |
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Not sure what r&r is. We didn’t take the bell housing off. I think this engine was running when the prior owner had it and I don’t believe the engine was opened. Parts were taken off but they were all bolt ons.
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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David,
On the oil, was the rear main seal R&R'd? |
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 947 |
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Putting in a little time on the skier...we have fully sanded the orange gel and are hunting down a paint booth to rent. Plan is still to shoot new gelcoat. We have done some tests and they are pretty good. Fingers crossed.
We also put the engine back together. New to us Commander manifolds, therm housing and water pump. Rebuilt the carb and tested it out on the Tique. Tried to start yesterday on the stand and a few issues. Couldn't get the fuel pump to prime. We tried two pumps. Is there a secret? Running out of a 5gal gas can. If they are shot, easy rebuild? Greg suggested an inline ball primer to get it started. Also, while cranking we noticed oil leaking out of the bell housing. Strange. Thoughts on these drips? We missing plugs in these holes? Rear main seal shot? Pics below. Thanks. |
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 947 |
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A little update. Summer came and slowed us down (ok, boating season stopped us dead in our tracks). Was/is a good summer. And the Badin Mini is coming up. Hope we see old friends and meet new ones.
So we tried all sorts of stuff to get the gel to match the test areas that were there prior to us...no luck. Tried superduty, aqua buff 1000, on and off, and then wet sanding more and more aggressive (down to 150). We could still see the difference even though we got close. We decided to gel the boat. Plan - do it ourselves. Knowledge and experience - none. Should be a learning experience. May not go well but here's to hoping. Needed to get it flipped so we could concentrate on the orange first... Boat Flip Time Lapse Tough to see but there is a frame we built inside the boat so it would rest on the top of the stringers and so we could sit it on the trailer. Next was grinding out all major blemishes, filling them with vinylester resin (suggested to us over epoxy for sticking to gel coat), and sanding smooth. There were holes all the way around for an old snap cover...they gone. Still have some refilling and sanding to do. After this step we will sand the boat to get it prepped for gel. Looking for a place with a booth and large compressor for gel. Plan is to tint gel to similar color orange and paint boot stripe. We shall see...who knows when. Stay Tuned! And come play at the Badin mini. Water was great this past weekend! |
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
|
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Cole,
Aren't you glad you get correct advice here. |
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wiscofoot
Senior Member Joined: February-16-2018 Location: Neenah, Wi Status: Offline Points: 124 |
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Yes you are right as (almost) always. There is no replacement for displacement! I asked the gentleman today about the bad advice and he said “measure the intake bolts”...he has his moments. |
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1976 Martinique
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10719 |
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Aren't you glad I ask these silly questions? Cheapest power increase ever 49 absolutely free cubic inches PS your friends were probably thinking about a 351C or a 351M as far as number of valve cover bolts |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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So, it's a 351. Better get someone else to help other than a Air Force mechanic and a diesel mechanic. |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Well so much for the old mechanic......
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