Points problem |
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norrisdam
Newbie Joined: August-26-2013 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 36 |
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Posted: May-07-2019 at 11:33pm |
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I have a 1986 Martinique with a 351 pcm engine. We set the points to proper gauge and 3-4 days later engine starts missing with some backfiring and then boat won’t start. Considering electronic ignition but not sure it’s the best way to go. Any help appreciated. Thanks.
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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I would determine exact cause of failure before making any system changes.
Check the spark strength, could be coil. Timing? Or ballast resistor. Or carb . . . You could start by checking voltage at + side of coil. |
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11061 |
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norrisdam
Newbie Joined: August-26-2013 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 36 |
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Yes. Same problem.
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3359 |
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Are you missing the ballast resistor? is it there but bypassed? Is the coil stock replacement or something else?
Too low impedance in the system will pull too much current than points can handle for long. |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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norrisdam
Newbie Joined: August-26-2013 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 36 |
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No. Ballast resistor not bypassed. Coil is stock.
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11061 |
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So what do you have to do to get it running again? Just reset the gap, clean the points, replace the points ? |
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norrisdam
Newbie Joined: August-26-2013 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 36 |
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Yes. It will run fine for a few days and then it starts acting up. Coil was replaced 12 years ago.
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11061 |
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The question you didn't answer though is What do you do to get it running good again? |
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norrisdam
Newbie Joined: August-26-2013 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 36 |
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Also, new ballast resistor in 2013
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norrisdam
Newbie Joined: August-26-2013 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 36 |
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To get it running good we usually replace plugs, points, cap, rotor and condenser,
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11061 |
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That's a lot to replace every 3 or 4 days of use What shape are the plugs, points. cap and rotor in when you decide to replace them? Do you have a brand and part number for the new coil you put in a number of years ago? You'll probably get all the same opinions you did back in 2013 when you asked about electronic ignition, What made you decide to stay with points? |
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norrisdam
Newbie Joined: August-26-2013 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 36 |
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Points are almost always the problem.
We don’t change everything every 3-4 days.. Not sure on part # for coil. I stayed with the points because there seems to be a lot of negative vibe on the site about going with electronic ignition. |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11061 |
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Only from some people You should be able to get it running good with either points or electronic, but that's your choice |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Greg, How long does the engine sit idle when you get the no start? Have you tried to clean the contact faces of the points when it doesn't start?
A quick cleanup by pulling some fine abrasive paper (like 800) through the points may be the answer? |
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zwoobah
Senior Member Joined: September-13-2018 Location: Providence RI Status: Offline Points: 308 |
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An emery board nail file is excellent for cleaning points. Just the right size and grit, with the right stiffness to apply a bit of pressure.
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1968 Mustang 16 - 351W powered
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Emery board grits: "80 grit – sharp and very rough, used for removing outer gel or acrylic overlays. It’s too rough for natural nails. 180 grit – medium sharp and medium rough, used for preparing nail plate before applying gel or acryl and for shaping artificial nails. 240 grit – not so sharp and rough, for final filing artificial nails. This grit can be used for filing natural nails." All too coarse of a grit in my opinion. You what to remove the oxide that forms on the contact faces and not the Silver Cadmium plating. It's rumored that with the manufacturing done in China that the plating isn't what it used to be! |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11061 |
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Pete i think you need to share with the rest of the world your secrets about point systems that let you go 20 plus years without looking under the cap Your quote is from norrisdam's thread about his ignition problems in 2013 |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Ken,
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11061 |
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Now that's one pretty lame answer Pete. I guess your "maintenance practices" leave something to be desired |
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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Back to the problem, electronic ignition will certainly eliminate points failure, so why not?
Sounds like the OP has already spent more money replacing ignition parts than the EI would cost. |
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6157 |
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I am holding onto my NOS points set in my 85 for dear life. It came in a std rotation screw down Prestolite I bought on ebay in 2007. (I think the guy still has some). Put my reverse rotation gear on and the rest is history. It's got somewhere north of 1200 hours on the points now. My brothers boat presumably has factory points (they are very very thin). It runs like a top so I have no intention of replacing them until failure. |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11061 |
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I guess you're saying you won't be looking under the cap either Zach.
That'll put you in the same "maintenance practices" category as Pete. Do you think there's been any wear on the rubbing block or pitting on the rotor and cap contacts. You won't know till you look. What would you call that? I'd call it preventive maintenance By the way those AC Delco points sets that somebody sent you a few years ago were born before you were. You should be holding on to them for dear life too. |
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6157 |
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They are in a very safe place Ken ha.
Look under the cap every year. Dizzy maintinance includes lube on the center pivot and advance mechanism every year or 100 hours. Graphite lube on the points cam too. |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11061 |
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That look under the cap every year is the part that Pete didn't do for 20 or so years. We won't have to call you L'il Pete now |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11061 |
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Well, getting back to our regularly scheduled programming again
For norrisdam, when's the last time the condenser was changed. If it's not working correctly you can have a weak spark and the points will also get pitted quickly and need cleaning at best and replacing if bad enough. If the condenser fails completely, you will have no spark at all no matter what you do with the points. They're cheap, easy to replace and often get ignored when somebody has a points issue. You could test it and think it's good till some current actually goes through it. It may cure your issue, it may not but if you're gonna stick with points you should change it if you haven't lately |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Now that's one pretty lame answer Pete. [/QUOTE] Gary, Sorry to hear you too have lame answers:
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11061 |
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Let's try just plain old English here Pete
It's not a question of whether point quality has gotten worse over the years, it a question of what kind of fool goes 20 years without even looking at the points. With a little attention maybe they would have lasted you a while longer |
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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PETE I'M TELLING YOU, IF YOU HAVE POINTS YOU HAVE TO CHECK UNDER THE CAP!!!!! |
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gt40KS
Gold Member Joined: August-05-2017 Location: Wichita Kansas Status: Offline Points: 946 |
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I'm with you Paul !! This is just too perfect
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JCCI
1995 Ski Nautique GT40 |
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