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72 Mustang running hot

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    Posted: July-02-2019 at 5:15pm
Okay gang, the Mustang motor and transmission is running well, but the motor is getting hot under load. Runs fine in the driveway and at idle, but hits 200 degrees with a significant load. Questions: Can I disconnect the water intake before the water pump without sinking the boat? Is it possible to troubleshoot the hoses on the intake side of the water pump with the boat in the water? Any help is appreciated!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-02-2019 at 5:30pm
Sean,
Yes, you can remove the suction side hose from the RWP but keep the end high above the waterline.

Have you checked the condition of the impellers?

Are all you suction side hose connections tight?

You say it runs fine in the driveway and I assume you have it connected to the hose. If so, understand that the water pressure from the hose will mask pump problems.

BTW, what engine is it?

EDIT: I see from a previous post that you have the Chrysler 200.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote onebigdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-02-2019 at 6:25pm
Ok. I checked the intake hoses and water flows freely when I disconnect and hold lower than the water line. Tightened all the intake hose clamps and still running hot. Is it better to replace the thermostat first or take apart the water pump?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-02-2019 at 6:31pm
Sean,
Before the T stat, check the impellers in the RWP. Have you (or maybe the PO) run the engine without water? The rubber impellers are water lubricated so without water it doesn't take long to burn them up.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-02-2019 at 6:33pm
Did you have the hose hooked up?

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Sean,
You say it runs fine in the driveway and I assume you have it connected to the hose. If so, understand that the water pressure from the hose will mask pump problems.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote onebigdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-02-2019 at 7:55pm
Yes, I always ran it with the hose hooked up in the driveway. I just pulled the thermostat out to see how it would run wide open and it still started getting hot. Unless the thermostat works opposite a car and opens to relieve water flow to the engine? Instead of opening to provide more water to the engine? Not sure how that would work. Anyways, do I assume I have to take the water pump apart in order to see how it is working?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-02-2019 at 8:46pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Sean,
Before the T stat, check the impellers in the RWP.

The T stat works the same as automotive.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote onebigdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-02-2019 at 9:31pm
There are two ports on the top of the water pump. If I turn the pulley by hand the front one pulls in water. The back port does not. Is this correct? I assume the back port should also provide positive pressure and this feeds the top of the water jackets. (Or else it is vacuum and is supposed to pull water up through the water jackets....doesn't sound right) The inlet from the lake is connected to a port on the back directly below the port that does not appear to be working. The hose on the front bottom directly below the top front that is priming goes to the cooler on the transmission. My guess is the top back port should provide positive water flow and that this is the problem?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-02-2019 at 9:37pm
Sean,
Your engine has a double RWP. Both sides pump cooling water to different engine areas. Chrysler marine engines have a rather complicated cooling system. Take a look at the engine manual in the reference section for the cooling schematic. It's too complicated to explain!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fanofccfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-03-2019 at 10:55am
my dual impeller pump needed a bushing machined and installed on the back side. the shaft was not fitting tight and allowing air in which resulted in very little suction and not much pumping even with new impellers.
2004 196 LE Ski 1969 Marauder 19 1978 Ski
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote onebigdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-03-2019 at 2:01pm
Thanks for all the ideas. The water pump has a secondary inlet with water being pulled through the transmission heat exchanger from the water jackets. Kinda weird. Anyways, this transmission cooler was totally clogged with rust chips. Cleaned it out and I am running much better. Question: What would be an acceptable operating temperature under heavy load? The gauge bumped up above 180 closing in on 200 so I throttled down and it quickly went back to about 120.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-03-2019 at 2:52pm
Just take it apart, install 2 fresh impellars and go boating.

make certain you take picture before you remove the pump and don't mix up the gazintas and gazoutas. Check hose routing against the water flow reference images in the Chrysler manual documents
"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatsat67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-03-2019 at 3:29pm
Mopars seem to run about 140-160. You also have to remember the gauges may not be functioning properly after all these years.

Pick up a cheap IR temperature gun, It will be very helpful when owning an old boat,

You will want to shoot things like the freeze plugs in the block (thin so you get a good temp reading) and the thermostat housing and intake manifold cross over to get an idea of how hot the water is. You could also pick up a "manual" capillary temperature gauge for testing.

Improperly grounded gauges or low voltage supply to the gauges could over exaggerate temperature rise.

+1 on install fresh impellers before doing much else.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-03-2019 at 6:14pm
Originally posted by onebigdog onebigdog wrote:

Anyways, this transmission cooler was totally clogged with rust chips. Cleaned it out and I am running much better. .

Sean,
Better or not, what's the condition of the impellers?
The impellers are important!
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Sean,
Have you checked the condition of the impellers?

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Sean,
Before the T stat, check the impellers in the RWP.

Originally posted by GottaSki GottaSki wrote:

Just take it apart, install 2 fresh impellars and go boating.
Originally posted by phatsat67 phatsat67 wrote:

+1 on install fresh impellers before doing much else.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote onebigdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-03-2019 at 8:11pm
I have not cracked open the water pump, but the impellers look and feel pretty good by inspection from the top. I will open up the water pump at the end of the week and order parts. Latest is a transmission fluid leak. Replaced a hose that I thought was bad but still leaking. Hope it's not a housing or gasket on the unit. I'm gonna quit for the day and take a look tomorrow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote onebigdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-04-2019 at 12:31pm
Next question: The rubber flywheel observation cover does not seal against the housing which is causing trans fluid to spill out of the housing. Yes, trans fluid on the flywheel. So I assume that this is a blown seal of some type inside of the trans?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote onebigdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-04-2019 at 12:37pm
Another idea.. Is the trans fluid leaking when the motor gets too hot? (As the trans heats up as well) Or do you think I have to pull the trans and replace a seal?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-04-2019 at 12:41pm
Originally posted by onebigdog onebigdog wrote:

Another idea.. Is the trans fluid leaking when the motor gets too hot? (As the trans heats up as well) Or do you think I have to pull the trans and replace a seal?


Skip your "another idea"

Pull the transmission, find the leak and fix it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote onebigdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-05-2019 at 12:44am
Dang, that interior trans seal is going to be a bear of a fix. Any suggestions of how to support the back end of the motor while I pull the trans? Or is engine hoist pretty much the only option?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-05-2019 at 8:02am
Bottle jacks under the exhaust manifolds aft. With the forward engine mounts loose and the aft mounts unbolted, the engine will tilt up so you can pull the trans.

While you are in there, I suggest replacing the damper plate. $100 well spent.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote onebigdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-05-2019 at 6:05pm
My new impellers arrived and have been installed in the water pump. The boat now runs at about 150 degrees when I am running it hard. 120 degrees at idle. The transmission starts to slip after a few minutes so now it's time to take that apart and figure out what is going on. Does anyone have any suggestions for a marina that will do a good job of rebuilding a transmission?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-05-2019 at 8:25pm
Check the fluid level in the trans first, Hopefully the slip is just from a low level and not warped clutch plates. They can warp from an overheat.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote onebigdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-06-2019 at 3:58pm
It leaks fluid fast into the bell housing. Doesn't slip initially, but slips after a short time due to a serious leak. I will pull trans next week and then look for recommendations from the group.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-06-2019 at 4:10pm
From a previous post:

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:


A couple bottle jacks under the exhaust manifolds work great for the tilt. Then the pump indexing cover on the front end of the trans is removed. The cover has the input shaft seal pressed into it. Old seal is pressed out and new seal is pressed in. Then reverse to process installing the trans. Before you remove the cover plate on the trans, note it's possition as it determines the rotation of the trans. If the new seal holds then you are good. If not, then the trans pump may be worn to the point where the seal area is over pressurized with fluid. Then it's time for a new trans pump assembly. Take a very close look at the trans input shaft where the seal lip rides. Clean it up with some fine abrasive or a Scotch Brite. looking for pitting. If bad, then a speedi sleeve may be needed.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-06-2019 at 4:18pm
I guess you just can't wait a week Pete

Give him a chance now   

There are other things that can leak on the front of the pump too
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