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Holley rebuild or QF M600 |
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davidaha 
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Joined: May-13-2020 Location: Kansas Status: Offline Points: 48 |
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 Topic: Holley rebuild or QF M600Posted: April-11-2022 at 1:15pm |
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First trip on water after summerizing '92 SN (parked for 5 months), took quite a while cranking (in short 10 second bursts, for about 4 minutes) to get fuel to the carb. Ran fine on the lake. After running noticed gas hanging under accel pump and that the PO had already swapped out the accel pump diaphragm (it was showing green)...don't know if the PO did a rebuild or just the accel pump. Looks to be the original 4160 carb. Remembered that there had been some longer crank times last year when the boat had been sitting for more than a week..guessing the bowl was draining. Obvious safety issue. Took some pics where it looks like the underside of the front bowl is wet from side to side.
I have rebuilt one carb in my life. Would you recommend: A) Trying to just swap the accel pump diaphragm B) Attempt the full rebuild C) Do the QF M600 & fuel line change (Have heard about from JQ and read about in other posts). Anything else I should check to decide? Starting to get warm here and don't want to miss the start of the season.  |
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92 Ski Nautique
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Jonny Quest
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Joined: August-20-2013 Location: Utah--via Texas Status: Offline Points: 2978 |
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Posted: April-11-2022 at 1:56pm |
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To rebuild a Holley 4160 carb is not very difficult. There are plenty of instructional videos on Youtube. On the air-horn, look for the carb model number that is stamped into the metal. Then you can purchase the correct rebuild kit. With the kit, you can have your carb re-built in under 60 minutes -- unless you have frying pan hands.
If you do want to step-up to a new carb, then the QF M-600 is a good choice. It has features that the 4160 should have but doesn't. If you do choose to go this route, keep in mind that the fuel line inlet on your existing set-up may be just a bit different than on the QF carb. No big deal, but it's not 100% plug-and-play. To make it über simple, you can go with the Sierra fuel line with the 90 degree elbow at the carb end. USCG approved and everything. Then, the QF would be plug-and-play. I think that it's Sierra part number 8-8114 (31") or 8-8115 (25"). Don't forget new carb / spacer / intake gaskets. JQ
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2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
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KENO
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Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11112 |
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Posted: April-11-2022 at 8:28pm |
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This is kinda like that old Chinese proverb about teaching a guy to fish or giving him a fish.
If you rebuild what you have for around 50 bucks, you'll know how to work on carburetors forever.  If you buy a M600 and bolt it on, you won't really have any experience beyond bolting it on and hoping for the best. Your problem with a hard start after sitting for 5 months is that some of the gas evaporates/drains/leaks and a slow turning engine while it's being cranked by the starter takes a while to fill the bowls. If you dump a little gas down the carburetor primary throats and turn the key, the engine should fire and the fuel pump will pump gas to the carburetor quicker. You may have to do this a couple or few times to keep it running, but it's a lot better than what you had to do and a lot easier on the starter and battery.. That's just "life with a carburetor" Hopefully your life with a carburetor involves starting a cold engine by pumping the gas a couple of times to accomplish the same priming as dumping gas down the throats after the winter layup. It should start without much cranking at all when primed like this. Sitting for a week won't empty the bowls so the priming with the throttle makes the accelerator pump squirt gas down the primaries. Or ...........you could get the M600 and then learn how to "fish" with the Holley afterwards since there's not much difference in the 2 carburetors Most obvious difference being the needle and seat assemblies and the floats are different between the internally adjustable Holley you have now and the externally adjustable M600If you do that the 18-8115 line JQ mentioned is the right length PS you did the DUI replacement, you can rebuild a carburetor.
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davidaha
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Joined: May-13-2020 Location: Kansas Status: Offline Points: 48 |
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Posted: April-16-2022 at 3:29pm |
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Had that QF M600 and supply line in my cart when I asked earlier.... was having a hard time with the cost and figured you guys would help me justify it by saying the Holley was probably toast.... but based on your advice/encouragement /manhood challenge... ordered the rebuild kit. Kit arrived today and will get to it this week.
At startup this season, after cranking for a while, did end up pouring gas in the carb about 3 times to get it to start. Normal life with the carb was the couple pumps to start....but last season that started to not be enough... then I noticed the fuel leaking. Any specific video or printed instructions you recommend for the marine 4160? Had watched some car video before asking and the guy made it seem complicated. |
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92 Ski Nautique
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KENO
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Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11112 |
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Posted: April-16-2022 at 6:25pm |
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Jonny Quest
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Posted: April-16-2022 at 8:54pm |
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I enjoy carb work...but my wife says I'm daft, so there you are.
When the dust settles, I'm betting that you may actually enjoy the carb re-build process. It will give you a better sense of how the carb works. Don't forget to tune the idle circuit when you reinstall that bad-boy. For your viewing pleasure, the following Summit Quick Flicks is a good tutorial on idle circuit tuning. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf54Pg9S5ZA When the engine fires right up and runs like a top, you can beat your chest and parade around the garage clad only in a Power Valve knowing that YOU mastered the carb. JQ
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2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
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rebel skier
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Joined: October-17-2014 Location: Middle Tenn Status: Offline Points: 776 |
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Posted: April-16-2022 at 9:30pm |
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You can do it! I did it and the great folk here helped when I had questions.
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Hotty Toddy lets go skiing!
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Jonny Quest
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Posted: April-18-2022 at 9:59pm |
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Here is a good video from Vince at SkiDim.com on cleaning a Holley 4160
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFcVI5YdHHA JQ
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2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
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peglegtoo
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Joined: July-09-2018 Location: Mass Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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Posted: April-19-2022 at 11:04pm |
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I went thru a leaky accel pump last year. The advice I got when looking into it was to make sure the sealing edge of the pump was flat, not sure if they warp over time or from the heat of the motor... anyway, mine was infact warped... easy enough to check against a flat surface. and the part was cheap. the 2nd advice I got was to use one of the extra thick base gaskets that ski dim sells. my boat (88 mastercraft, indmar 351w) uses a spacer so I needed two of them. part number on ski dim gasket Carburetor Base Gasket, RM0054B I had to also get some other parts as well and these guys were very helpful on the phone www.allcarbs.com/
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Riley
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Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7954 |
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Posted: April-20-2022 at 8:08am |
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That is a great skill to have, but it takes time and there is a learning curve. Buy plenty of manifold gaskets in case you have to remove it from the engine and pull it apart if it's not quite right . I've found it very satisfying to bolt on a new Holley or QF and turn the key and it fires up and runs great. I don't know what the attraction is for a QF 600 over a Holley 4160 600. They are both vacuum secondaries. I've never had to adjust the floats on the Holleys and they don't need an after market fuel line.
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KENO
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Posted: April-20-2022 at 5:17pm |
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You could at least quote a little more of what I said like the part below Who knows , maybe he'll get the carburetor off and find a loose screw or 2 or 3 or 4 on the bowl mounting screws or on the accelerator pump mounting screws and get off real easy with the fix if there were no other problems with how it runs
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Jonny Quest
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Posted: April-20-2022 at 9:32pm |
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Main differences between the Holley 4160 and the QuickFuel M-600:
Stuff that QuickFuel has but Holley doesn't - Changeable jets in secondary metering block - Billet metering block - Adjustable air bleeds - External float adjustment hardware - Float bowl site glass - Black coating (QF claims there is some magic ju-ju with the black) - Fuel inlet at 90 degrees (3 o'clock) - Toolbox sticker in shipping box Stuff that Holley has but QuickFuel doesn't - Dichromate finish - Air vent for cooling the electric choke element (acknowledgement to KENO for this tidbit) - Vacuum port for clear safety tube from mechanical fuel pump - Fuel inlet at 135 degrees (5 o'clock) That depletes my knowledge base. JQ |
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2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
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TRBenj
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Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21186 |
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Posted: April-20-2022 at 9:43pm |
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The billet metering block that QF uses is worth something, IMO. It’s also cheaper by a good bit, last I checked. A proper set of flared barbs and uscg hose costs about $10.
My pile of rebuildable Holleys is too large to ever consider a new vac secondary QF, but you sure as heck won’t catch me buying a new holley either. |
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davidaha
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Posted: April-20-2022 at 11:23pm |
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Thank you for the video links and suggestions. Have done the rebuild and hope to get it back on the boat (30 minutes away) in the next day or 2. I was surprised how easy the primary bowl bolts came loose... they were not much more than hand tight...wish I had checked that before removing the carb from the boat, but had already brought it home and opened the rebuild kit ... so went ahead The accel pump cover had the face warping I have heard was typical, so sanded that flat. Didn't see anything else "wrong" internally in the carb, but didn't expect to since it ran fine before...just leaked. Was more than 1/2 way thru the rebuild when I hit a few snags. Let me know if you think any of these require redoing: 1. The kit (from nautique parts) did not have the pump discharge needle valve, so used the old. 2. The kit did not have the right size cork gaskets that go between the choke and the carb and the one between the diaphragm housing and the carb, so I very reluctantly used the old ones... Thanks again for all the input |
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92 Ski Nautique
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KENO
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Posted: April-21-2022 at 6:33am |
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You're most likely fine with reusing the old gaskets you mentioned, especially if you didn't pry them out before figuring out that you didn't have the new ones.
Same with the pump discharge needle valve, probably just fine. I wouldn't worry about either issue Now you've rebuilt 2 carburetors in your life
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KENO
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Posted: April-21-2022 at 12:17pm |
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And JQ, if you use a 9/16-24 banjo fitting on the M-600 bowl, you can aim that hose connection anywhere you want at a right angle to the bowl instead of straight out. You remove the adapter that's screwed into the bowl and replace it with the banjo fitting Same threads as Holley uses on a number of their carburetors with the same inlet arrangement. You can get one from a variety of places with a part number like Holley 26-25 for 5/16 fuel line as one example. Or you can find them for different size fuel lines.
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Jonny Quest
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Posted: April-21-2022 at 1:41pm |
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KENO. Agreed. The “banjo” fitting makes the connection easy. As long as the fuel hose is USCG rated, I like that option.
JQ
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2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
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davidaha
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Posted: April-22-2022 at 8:55pm |
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Did a test run with the rebuilt carb on the boat. Seemed like it did run a little better than I remember. Had to snug up the primary bowl a little after the first run and then it stayed perfectly dry for the next several run and wait intervals....which was awesome. Definitely safer than it was before. And at $575 less than the QF.
Next up....an alternator test/replace |
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KENO
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Posted: April-23-2022 at 8:59am |
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CanvasVapor
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Posted: May-19-2022 at 2:22pm |
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I know I'm a bit late to this party, but I was having the exact same problem with fuel puddling at the same location with the same engine/carb combo. I did a rebuild on mine and pretty sure the leak was the accelerator pump diaphragm and also the fuel line fitting into the primary bowl. I was also having the same hard start scenario which leads me to think it's more the accelerator diaphragm that was slowly leaking and emptying the bowl between weekends.
This was my first time opening a carb of any kind and I was a bit anxious to dive into it and potentially leave myself with an extended downtime if I messed anything up. Now, I'm fairly confident I've done it correctly and I'm looking forward to putting it all back together and tuning it.
I too, relied on Wacko's youtube video linked above, having found it by searching on youtube itself. Fun to find it's from a member here! |
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KENO wrote: