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2003 Nautique Excal Engine Issues |
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dkimball 
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 Topic: 2003 Nautique Excal Engine IssuesPosted: July-06-2022 at 7:34pm |
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I was pulling a flyer yesterday and when I went to accelerate the engine sputtered and died. It would not restart but would turn over and hang up while turning over every so often. Here is what I have found out so far.
Fuel pumps are priming and running Spark is present 7 of 8 plugs were nice and clean. #3 cyl plug was fouled (dirty). Swapped out the 1 and 3 plugs to see if it would fire. It didn't and when I pulled the #3 plug (which was originally the #1 plug) it noticably dirty. Checked compression in #3 and it was around the 150 range so it has compression. The cap and rotor had a little corrosion but nothing that I believe would cause the boat to die and only affect the #3 cylinder. I have a new cap, rotor and plugs on the way. Will also check the wires. I am OK with the regular maintenance stuff but get a little out of my element if the valve covers need to be pulled which may need to be done. I am thinking it may be a lifter issue or something along those lines. I have it scheduled to be looked at but the local marina is 2 weeks out. Any ideas? Some more info on boat below. 2003 Excal 330. - owned for 5 years going into 6 summer. New plugs, wires, cap rotor, fuel filter 4 years ago Fuel filter, impeller changed this year New circulation pump installed this year (drain plug issue on old pump) Haven't had any issues besides a couple blown hoses on the boat since I have owned it. Put around 30 hours or so on this year so far. 445 total for the boat. Only had 175 on it when I bought it. Thanks. |
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Kimball
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MrMcD
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Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3750 |
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Posted: July-06-2022 at 8:03pm |
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You said fuel pumps so I am assuming the excal engine is fuel injected? Check your fuel pressure based on what your mentioned it sounds like a leaking fuel injector in your #3 cylinder. On the Fuel injected engines if the engine is flooded you can hold the throttle wide open, this will give the engine lots of air but will also shut off your fuel injectors so no fuel sprays. This may allow you to start it by drying it out. Maybe even crank it over a little with #3 removed and see if wet fuel sprays out the plug hole. That is my guess. If you hook up a fuel pressure gauge you could pressurize the system and then watch to see how fast it loses pressure. It should hold for 30 minutes or longer after shut off. If you see it fall quickly you have a leaking injector.
Mark
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dkimball
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Posted: July-06-2022 at 8:06pm |
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It is fuel injected and I can get it to run on 7 cylinders with the #3 plug pulled. There is unburnt fuel in there but I Don't think it is more than normal as there always would be since it isn't firing. I have tried to fire it up in WOT as you suggested to see if I could get it to fire and it won't unless I remove the plug from #3.
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Kimball
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MrMcD
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Posted: July-06-2022 at 10:28pm |
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If it turns over with 3 installed but hangs up while still having 150 lbs of compression it sounds a lot like a fuel injector leak but it could also be a water leak from the head gasket or exhaust getting in that cylinder. Hanging up while cranking normally means you are trying to compress fluid. There is only water or gas to compress.
FYI: Fluid does not compress so cranking the engine over even with the starter can bend a connecting rod trying to compress fluid. That would force a total engine tear down to repair so be careful.
I looked up your engine, it is a 5.7L GM Vortec old style block so a very proven durable design, you should have many more hours in that block before needed anything mechanical. Find out what is happening in #3 before something bad happens.
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KENO
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Posted: July-07-2022 at 6:42am |
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Must sound like a helicopter with that plug removed
 I think me and MrMcD............we agree, you got some excess liquid in that cylinder whether it's gas or water. It sounds like gas from your description of the spark plug. maybe you'll get lucky and just need a new injector Here's a link to some reading that might scare you, leaky injector, bent rod, big bucks, I don't think you're there. yet. |
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dkimball
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Posted: July-07-2022 at 8:33am |
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Thanks guys. I had to head back to work but my brother is still up at the lake and is going to pull the injector to test it. Now that you mention injector there have been a few times in the past year or so when you would start the boat it would idle a bit rough but would come out of it pretty quickly (almost like it wasn't getting enough fuel, or maybe to much and flooding it self). RA087007 is the part number for the fuel injector. Do you know of a good cross reference that I could pick up at the autoparts store? Not sure if they would be the standard 350 chevy injectors from the late 90s or not.
I don't believe it is water as there doesn't appear to be any signs of that and when we did pull the plug and fired it over there was a slight puff of black smoke out of the #3 cylinder. Hopefully the injector is the culprit and nothing else was bent/damaged. We plan to pull the valve cover to take a look as well and make sure there isn't something going on with the rocker arms or valves.
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Kimball
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KENO
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Posted: July-07-2022 at 9:44am |
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I'd find the number on the side of the injector and use it for cross reference. it's a GM part used by other outfits like Mercruiser, Volvo Penta, Crusader etc. Crusader is part of PCM and their part number system is the same.
The RA087007 has an updated version RA087007A. For about the price of one injector from PCM you can buy a set of 8 from Bosch and other outfits if you do a little searching with either of the PCM part numbers Here's one example in the link below PS don't trust me, do some verification of your own before ordering anything. It's the same situation as people needing gt40 injectors, pay through the nose from PCM or they get the 8 for 1 deal with places like Ford Performance Parts, Bosch etc. You might try GM Performance Parts using the number on the side of the injector for reference
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dkimball
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Posted: July-07-2022 at 10:38am |
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Thanks I will check the number on the injector. I can pay the price every now and then for the PCM equipment but it is looking like the price of 1 PCM injector would be the same price as 8 compatible injectors. Those marine injectors must really be special........
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Kimball
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MrMcD
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Posted: July-07-2022 at 3:36pm |
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The marine injectors are nothing special, they just buy them from someone and add a special part number. Bosch or Denso supply top quality injectors just make sure they have the same gallons per hour rating and the same electrical plug configuration. The boat never turns more than 5-5,500 RPM Max so you do not need a special injector. A Chevy Truck Injector should keep you happy. I would take a picture of your electrical plug at the injector just to make sure when shopping.
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quinner
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Posted: July-09-2022 at 11:00am |
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Might want to change the cap/rotor, Excal is known to have some issues with them. FWIW, the auto parts Delco version is identical to the PCM version.
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dkimball
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Posted: July-09-2022 at 12:05pm |
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Cap and rotor should be here today. The ones on the boat are a little over 3 years old. Not sure if it will help as 7 of the 8 cylinders are firing but it can't hurt.
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Kimball
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dkimball
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Posted: July-10-2022 at 3:23pm |
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Just wanted to give an update. After dismantling way more of the engine that we should have/probably needed to I believe the culprit ended up being the cap and rotor. While waiting for parts we took the valve cover off and everything looked good so we pulled the fuel rail and swapped the #3 injector with the #1 injector. Put it back together and it still wouldn't fire but after a small backfire it did seem to crank over a lot better and didn't have any "dead spots". Cap and rotor finally showed up so we put them in and she fired up. I am just going to tell myself that we "knocked the rust off" by checking everything out and that in combination with the cap and rotor is what did it. I did change the plugs out as well as we fouled them up pretty good trying to trouble shoot.
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Kimball
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MrMcD
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Posted: July-10-2022 at 5:17pm |
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I have not seen a cap make your #3 stop firing unless you have one of the Fancy Caps that put 4 plugs on each side of the cap rather than 8 plugs spaced even in a circle. The fancy caps route the electric charge from the rotor to the 4 plug locations on each side of the cap. I have seen those fail and cross fire between plugs and cause mis fires. A mis fire can fire your #3 way out of time so an explosion happens in that cylinder while the piston is on the up stroke. That early explosion is basically detonation which could cause the engine to bog down while cranking similar to a hydro lock. If you have a standard distributor cap I would keep looking for what cause the problem and if your #3 injector is still in the #1 hole your problem may show up in #1. Run some injector cleaner through the next tank of gas and keep your fingers crossed. All injector cleaners are not created equal so do al ittle reading to get a good brand. I use a quart of ATF tranny fluid, it cleans well and lubricates without damaging anything.
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dkimball
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Posted: July-10-2022 at 6:00pm |
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It is one of the gm flat caps so I am hoping this fixed the issue.
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Kimball
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KENO
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Posted: July-10-2022 at 9:38pm |
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Well after getting lucky on your problem, there's something else you need to do real soon..................go out and buy 3 Powerball tickets and hope you get just as lucky
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dkimball
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Posted: July-10-2022 at 10:54pm |
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I should probably just stay away from boats for awhile. I was bumming some barefoot rides with my cousin this morning in her new 2021 Nautique 200 with only 30 hours on it when her power steering started cutting in and out. Luckily for me she will have the dealership take care of it as the newer nautiques look a bit more challenging to work on with the amount of electronics on them.
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Kimball
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MrMcD
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Posted: July-11-2022 at 1:25am |
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Curious how you like the ride and tow behind the new Nautiques. I have not had the pleasure and am curious if there is any advantage for the near $100K needed to own one. Glad that fixed your problem and yep, those flat caps can certainly act up. Not nearly as reliable as the old style but good news yours is running again.
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KENO
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Posted: July-11-2022 at 7:21am |
I wanna hear more about this power steering setup on a Nautique 200 that cuts in and out and how it works or maybe doesn't work.
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dkimball
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Posted: July-11-2022 at 8:58am |
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I want to know more about it as well as I don't see the need for power steering on that size of a direct drive inboard. If the cable is knew it should turn pretty smooth with power steering or not. I am sure she will find out more today. Google didn't have much to offer on this topic when I was searching.
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Kimball
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KENO
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Posted: July-11-2022 at 2:09pm |
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Since it seems kinda goofy that #3 firing at the wrong time like MrMcD said, I figured this took some thinking to figure out why.
I put on my thinking cap and wrote down a few things The normal rotation SBC firing order is 1 8 4 3 6 5 7 2 The only cylinder plug wire that could crossfire with 3 at a time which would affect it enough by making it fire way early in the compression stroke is #4 since it's just before #3 in the firing order The flat Vortec cap does some funny routing inside to get the wires arranged so that one side is 1 3 7 5 and the other is 8 2 4 6. so maybe 3 and 4 get in close proximity inside the cap and an issue with the cap cracking, having tracking of spark from one terminal to another could cause this. So...........here's an upside down picture of a Vortec cap with the plug towers labeled on the paper and the first 4 contacts in the firing order have little stick on numbers near them. Since the cap is upside down, the clockwise rotation of the firing order around the cap looks counterclockwise from underneath.  The blue line shows the spark path from #4 inner terminal to the tower for it's spark plug. The green line shows the path for #3 from inner to outer. The red circle shows how close the paths are (like really close) and a breakdown of the cap material (whether it's visible or it's internal) that the cap is made of will cause that misfire I think that's a plausible explanation for how #3 cylinder could keep your engine from running in your situation strange as it might seem |
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MrMcD
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Posted: July-11-2022 at 2:58pm |
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Heck of a breakdown Keno! I am not a fan of that type cap but it does work for space reasons on some engines. If his problem comes back it is back to the drawing board.
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JayG80
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Posted: July-11-2022 at 7:39pm |
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Thanks for that explanation Keno. It looks like an inelegant solution to a “fit the space issue”.
The previous owner of my 07 Excalibur engine replaced his dist cap annually b/c it was always an issue. I replaced it my first year after a backfire and have another waiting on the shelf for year 2. The GT 40 round dizzy cap lasted much longer. |
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dkimball
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Posted: July-14-2022 at 5:27pm |
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MrMcD the ride behind the new nautique was pretty nice for footing wake crosses. That is about all I was up for. I am not much of a slalom skier so I couldn't tell you how that is. I drove it a little when she first got it and it definitely has a little more pep than my 2003 which could be a combination of the engine and drive by wire style. I believe she has the ZR400 engine. I didn't drive it for long as I didn't want to be the first person to hit something. It topped out at around 43 which was a little surprising, I thought it might have a little more in it but it did maintain that speed with a footer and a couple of riders.
As far as the steering issue she had to take it to the dealer to have it looked at. They are going to plug it in to the computer and see what is going on. Hopefully she isn't down for too long as we don't have a very long summer here in Iowa. The reliance on computers/software for everything in the new boats definitely has me questioning an upgrade (oh and the sky high prices).
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Kimball
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KENO
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Posted: July-14-2022 at 8:12pm |
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Last I knew the steering on a SN 200 was good ol' rack and pinion operated cable.............no power assist of any kind, but it has a rudder position indicator in case you don't know which way you're aimed or something.
The big barges have the thruster system for maneuvering at slow speeds around docks etc.
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dkimball
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Posted: July-14-2022 at 8:54pm |
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That is what I was thinking keno as I see no need for steering assist in a direct drive but she was insisting it had power steering. The helm was covered so I took her word for it. Turns out the rudder packing came loose and was allowing the rudder to bind. I don’t believe there is any steering assist to speak of. It is already to hit the water again.
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Kimball
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dkimball wrote: