Velvet Drive -aluminum case/housing? |
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barr68
Senior Member Joined: December-09-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 100 |
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Posted: March-07-2007 at 7:55am |
I saw a aluminium bell housing on ebay a couple of weeks back that supposedly fit a Chrysler LM318/velvet drive combination.The original bell housing on my '68 LM318 is cast steel/iron.In reguards to transmissions, I was wondering if Borg Warner or any other(maybe aftermarket/racing)manufacturer made aluminium or magnesium cases /housings for 1:1 velvet drive tranmissions? Seems like a good way to save some weight on boats used exclusively in fresh water. Anyone ever see or hear of one? Jim B.
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
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I am almost sure my ford/bw bell housings (3 at last count) are all aluminum.
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3363 |
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PCM 1:1 is about 65 #, save #35. However eric sez its not as bulletproof, especially when things let go, tends to take out other high-$ internal components.
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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Here's the scoop, maybe not exact but as i remember.... I worked for Great lakes Power in the mid 80's which owns Paragon Gear works, I came in at the tail end of the transmission fiasco that Paragon was involved in along with Borg Warner, Hurth and possibly other transmission manufacturer's.
Anyways Paragon was asked to develop a transmission for the ski boat market, it had to be lighter than your traditional borg Warner and also requested was a down angle transmission so the engine could sit in the stringers parallel. Paragon did develop a transmission and during the testing Phase we had bearing problems and failures, hundreds of thousands of dollars were spent on that project and the CEO. knew that hundreds of thousands of dollars were still needed and the CEO decided to scrap the project. Borg Warner also developed a transmission and they also had many problems at the time. Hurth beat everyone to it and came out with the IRM-40a. they also had thier share of problems. hurth was aquired by ZF and that is what you see in the boats today PCM-40 and PCM_40a nowadays weight is another issue and at the time wakeboarding was not as popular and boat owners are trying to weigh the boats, opposite of making them lighter The pcm in my eyes are delicate unlike the Borg Warner, parts pricing is the issue with the PCM, if you have a failure it takes more than $200.00 to get tham repaired |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7954 |
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When you say PCM, do you mean current PCM/Hurth? I have a Hurth in my 03 Malibu, and it performs well, but it does not shift anywhere near as smoothly as a BW, and it is noisy. I don't know why Indmar or PCM don't use Velvet Drives.
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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PCM labels the transmission for propriatary reasons (parts) they are actually a Hurth transmission and ZF marine bought Hurth.
Hurth did come up with a workable transmission which also includind a 1.23:1 down angle At the time more and more aluminum case transmissions were evolving and the ski boat market was included. but someone near the top of the food chain made these decisions and the exact reason i dont know, but if i was to guess it was something to do with money |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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barr68
Senior Member Joined: December-09-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 100 |
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Thanks for the info, its too bad that no Velvet drive cases were ever manufactured. Jim B.
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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there is the 5000 series by Borg Warner which is all aluminum and Mastercraft uses the ZF 450a and 630v which are aluminum.
you'll be seeing more combinations in new boats as they evolve they did try to re-invent the wheel with some good and with some bad. the thing about these transmissions is you can spin them either way for forward... full power which eliminates the need for right hand engines.It works graet all the way around for the engine manufacturers. it was unheard of to have 2 left hand engines in a boat, it was always a left and a right in twin screws. |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3363 |
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You can save almost that weight with one aluminum cyl head. The Aluminum downangle trannies net almost no weight savings.
The more I learn, the more I think I'd rather keep the rockcrusher BW transmission. It was originally a bulldozer tranny, right? |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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gottaski, you got it f-n bulletproof, cheap to overhaul, simple to overhaul, parts available, need i say more
they use borg warners in everything, im doing a forklift trans right now and its a BW. thge ZF line is great till you need parts and when you find the parts you will pay |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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Last summer for the OSU ski team I pulled thier ZF45 out and replaced it with a Borg Warner, it was in a 2002 mastercrap... thinking about it they still owe me $200.00 I donated the transmission to them and charged a total of $600.00 on the payment plan.
The ZF 45 needed a pump and it was 8 weeks out of Italy and $450.00 so I tried to sleeve the pump because the pump is half the thickness of a borg pump and it wasnt sending enough oil to the cooler circuit and was overheating after a few passes. anyways I sleeved it to get them by and it started overheating again so i said drop it off and threw a borg which fits right in place... no more problems. thats just an example of the problems that might occur with ZF's |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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