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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-08-2007 at 8:00pm
great googaly moogaly


Originally posted by Nautique2001 Nautique2001 wrote:


So is the 4160 a decent carburetor? I just need the thing to spew as much fuel as possible at WOT. What's the trick with this little monkey?


there are about 4160 different 4160 carbs, bare the air horn, give up the list number and take a picture.

tricks, plural, and too many to list.
"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BlondieGurl1443 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-08-2007 at 8:01pm
Is that what you call a "twin Boob-balist" system! It will make a wake sooo big you wont even need a rope!!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 6strings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-08-2007 at 10:58pm
Whoa! We do like boobs here but not quite that big! Please!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim_In_Houston Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-08-2007 at 11:09pm
Hey! That's my wife!!!!!!!!!! Where did you get that picture?
Happy owner of a '66 and a '68 Mustang
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 6strings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-08-2007 at 11:11pm
Oops! Sorry about my comments Jim....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nautique2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2007 at 9:40am
Here's a summary of last nights run.

Timing - Perfect
Throttle cable - Perfect (minor adj. by Tim)

Tim and Brad put there minds together as we went from a quick 600 RPMs, up to 4,800 RPMs. We stayed at about 4,800 RPMs for about five seconds max and the engine RPMs dropped on their own to 4,100.

Tim and Brad were confident the float in the secondary is out of adjustment. They bent something in the float and put it back together. We saw a 200 RPM increase and it stayed in the higher RPM band longer before backing down. We then ran out of light, so we packed it in.

Does anyone know of a way to judge the distance of the float adjustment to get it right on? We still have some work to do.

Here's a video from last night, thanks to Brad's new video camera. Listen closely to the RPM's. Can you tell when it drops?

Engine RPMs dropping

Ken



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79nautique View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2007 at 9:56am
My dad alway's uses a T-shaped scale/ruler to measure the float height, it's basicly two scales with a u-shaped bracket with a thumb screw so that on scale can slide and be set a set distance and the other scale is mainly for resting on a surface for a reference point. I'll try and see if summit or jegs has one to show you what I'm talking about.

Have you change the fuel/water seperator lately and what about the check ball in the vent of the gas tank?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2007 at 10:06am
It should be pretty obvious from the video when the rear bowl runs out of fuel- Ken isnt backing off the throttle and it slowly drops from about 4800 to 4200 RPM.

The secondaries appear to be functioning properly- they come in at the right time and stay open (even when the RPM's decrease). No stumbling or other driveability problems. If you back off on the throttle and give the rear bowl a little time to fill, the motor will achieve a higher RPM when you go back to WOT (until it runs out again).

Like Ken said, the timing is fine (advances from 6 degrees at idle to about 27 degrees at 3000 RPM). Throttle cable is getting full range. It just wont hold 4800 RPM.

We raised the rear float level and it appears to have improved performance. Ken said that sustained WOT RPM's increased from 3900 to 4200 with the float adjustment, so it appears we're on the right track. We didnt have a scientific way to adjust the float- just bending the arm a little at a time and using trial and error.

Im also wondering if it could still be a fuel pressure issue. Is there an easy way to measure in-line pressure with the hard fuel line?

Any other thoughts?

Edit: Im too slow with my reply. Chris, did you watch the video? It performs great out of the hole and at WOT until the rear bowl runs dry. Not sure where that float should be adjusted- does it look like it should be raised more or is it more likely a fuel pressure problem? Maybe we need more info to tell.

I should also thank ReidP and his buddy Todd for their help on the phone last night!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2007 at 10:13am
if it was fuel pressure issue that would show way earlier than after it's peaked max rpm. timing is a little low though I would bump it up two degrees or more if it doesn't ping.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nautique2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2007 at 10:14am
Chris,

I haven't checked the check valve in the fuel line. Good idea.

Page 49 of the PCM service manual indicates that a specific toll is necessary for the adjustment to the float, Kent-Moore J10193. I Googled, carburetor adjustment tools. Here's one site I found Tools.

Tim, I'll give Vincent a call at SKIDIM. Maybe we can check the check valve in the line too?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nautique2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2007 at 10:18am
Tim,

I think next round of tweeking, we really need that Holley ajustment tool. We saw how tweeking too far one way throws off the entire show. You and Brad did pretty well by eye though.


Ken
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2007 at 10:24am
screw the tool raise it a little more bye sight if you go too much then bend it back slightly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2007 at 10:31am
Originally posted by 79nautique 79nautique wrote:

screw the tool raise it a little more bye sight if you go too much then bend it back slightly.


Thats my thought. The only problem is that with the bowl sitting flat (looking down at the open bowl), we moved the top of the float from 3/16" away from the top to within 1/8". This is where we saw an improvement. Once it hits the top of the bowl, theres no easy way to gauge any changes. Our first adjustment had the float up against the bowl (with too much tension on it) and the carb was just dumping gas at idle. Sounds like trial and error is the way to go?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2007 at 10:47am
or you might need to raise the primary float slightly as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2007 at 10:53am
Originally posted by 79nautique 79nautique wrote:

or you might need to raise the primary float slightly as well.


I take it the primary float level can effect the secondaries? When installing a new carb on one of these boats, I know float adjustments are usually necessary- would it be common to have to raise both the front and rear due to the angle?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2007 at 11:11am
won't the primary float control weather or not fuel is entering the carb before the secondary even comes into play?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nautique2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2007 at 11:31am
Here's a response from Correct Craft:

Sounds like fuel starvation problem. Try running the engine off of a 6 Gallon OB tank hooked to the fuel pump and see if it does the same thing.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2007 at 11:40am
I tend to agree with the stavation problem, float adjustment is important but if it was as touchy as you guys are making it seem this thing would never make it around a corner. This boat is running like a boat that has been sleeping too long too often and has crud in the system.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nautique2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2007 at 11:46am
The fuel tank was inspected a year ago for crap and sediment. It's clean. New fuel hoses and filters. I do need to start putting more hours on it though, keep everything flowing.

Ken
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nautique2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2007 at 11:51am
One more question, would the pitch of the prop have an effect on top end? Maybe it bites in better after plaining and loses RPM. Should I slap on the factory 13X13 to see what happens?

Ken
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2007 at 12:03pm
Originally posted by Nautique2001 Nautique2001 wrote:

One more question, would the pitch of the prop have an effect on top end? Maybe it bites in better after plaining and loses RPM. Should I slap on the factory 13X13 to see what happens?

Ken


no you would never get the rpm to start with
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nautique2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2007 at 12:06pm
Got ya. What do you think of Correct Craft's idea with filling an O/B motor gas tank and running the fuel line directly to that?

Ken
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2007 at 12:06pm
bump the timing up two degrees and raise the primary float 1/16" , your almost to the point of nit picking it too much.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2007 at 12:08pm
Originally posted by Nautique2001 Nautique2001 wrote:

Got ya. What do you think of Correct Craft's idea with filling an O/B motor gas tank and running the fuel line directly to that?

Ken


waiste of time if it was fuel starvation issue you would never see the top rpm to start with. Change the timing raise the float and be done with it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2007 at 12:25pm
the more think about this and look through the reference section, you have an electronic ignition or at least conv. kit correct?

and your timing is set at 6 btdc and a 27 at 3k both which are low, change the timing to 10 btdc then run the boat and see how it perfoms if it doesn't ping leave it there if it ping's set it a 8 btdc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2007 at 12:45pm
Originally posted by Nautique2001 Nautique2001 wrote:

The fuel tank was inspected a year ago for crap and sediment. It's clean. New fuel hoses and filters.


Was this another NECC job, Ken?

I wouldnt say we're nitpicking, Chris- just trying to narrow down the problem. I agree that the timing is low, but it starts and idles well, advances properly and gets the boat to 4800 RPM. The secondaries are obviously starving at sustained WOT running- could that be caused by a 20-30% decrease in flow to the pump? The secondaries are initally fine as you can see in the video- its just that the bowl empties faster than it can refill. Im certainly not ruling out the float adjustment, just saying it may not be the only thing to look at.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2007 at 12:52pm
put more timing into it first easiest thing to do to start with, run it then if it is still coming back on the rpm raise the front float 1/16", it's not a double pump carb so the primary float effects the secondary float on a single inlet holley, really suprised there's a second float on a single inlet model to start with.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2007 at 1:31pm
If you're getting 4800 rpm what is the problem??? Or is this a typo and supposed to be 3800, else I am very confused.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2007 at 1:35pm
it goes to 4800 then without moving the throtle backs down to 4200 rpm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2007 at 1:52pm
Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

If you're getting 4800 rpm what is the problem??? Or is this a typo and supposed to be 3800, else I am very confused.


Chris gets it. If you watch the video, you can see/hear how the boat gets up and goes very well. It gets to about 4800 RPM before it slowly starts to come back down (around the 15 second mark) and finally settles at 4200. Ken stays at WOT in the video up until you see him pull back (just past the 1 min mark).
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