A Good Point!

And yet it defends all of us!

We would be making a uge mistake if we followed our elected represenatives blindly and believe that they are looking out for our best interest. "We the People" must defend it (the constitution) and not allow it to be discarded and dismissed. If we turn it over to the current leaders of this country they will destroy it without pause. We have to stand up and not allow the most forethinking document ever written in the name of freedom and free will to be destroyed by individuals that think this country needs to be "fundamentaly transformed".

Chris, you're so right.

Chuck, most welcome!

Would I be crazy if I suggested a correlation between the 13th and 16th amendments?

Not counting the folks here(yall are way sharper than average), how many in ten could tell you what the 'Bill of Rights' refers to?

Gov't schools...and I went to one?!!?

Chuck, well spoken!

This thread has barely started and it's a better townhall than most dems have held.

My rights stop at the tip of your nose.

Chuck, something I forgot to mention is that I think individualism is going on the endangered list.

C'mon Eric, take on the 13/16 question...unless you might hurt yourself.   

How would you rebuild a transmission or engine without a standard to go by?

We're gonna have to agree to disagree again.

eric lavine wrote: is it a standard or a control?

LOL

It tells the imperial federal gov't what they CAN'T do to me!

This country was founded by people who were trying to get away from exactly where we're headed.

eric lavine wrote: it was written at a time when native Americans shot back, oh yeah but then again WE slaughtered them too 28 million to be exact, "chemical weapons" small pox infested blankets, almost extinted the Bison, try the starvation process these are different times, Im an American and proud to be an American, but it came at a price, dont think for one minute were not as evil as the rest of the world, the only difference with us is when we drop big bombs or infest blankets we do it with class.. I see the world for what it is, what it was and what its going to be...these documents we discuss are merely pieces of paper to keep me and you inline and thhttp://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/watts/20kw-120-240-volt-standby.php?source=goog&keyword=20%20kilowatt%20generator&gclid=CJC37PexspwCFVlM5Qod3SAHoAats why i brought up the 10 commandents, thats what i live by. I dont go to church every Sunday, but its that belief that seperates the good from the evil

Eric,

You are mixing religion and government-that is a big mistake. There is a reason that our founding fathers wanted religion and government separated. The knew that a political system/government based and controlled by religion would eventually supress the populous. All you have to do is look at history. How may millions were slaughtered in the name of religion? That strong religious belief brought down the twin towers, it makes it legal for a husband kill his wife and forces women to cover their face. Now I know that is not christianity but it is still a form of religion. The settlers of this country risk thier lives to start a new world without the tyrany of a controlling government. Hummmm sounds really familiar. Obamatopia!!!

The Lake wrote: BuffaloBFN wrote: Would I be crazy if I suggested a correlation between the 13th and 16th amendments? Greg, are you suggesting that abolition and then reconstruction (14th and 15th) led to a federal deficit that required income tax (the 16th)? Or is the correlation that the in both amendments "congress has the power?" Chuck

You weren't sleeping in class!     

I was going another way with it, and a little bit farther as well; but what you said will get us both to the same town at the same time.

eric lavine wrote: Chris, a better word...genocide we have yet to hit the nail on the head and never will with religion, religion runs deeper in someones soul than government. religion is a belief and is not pushed on you. when you are taught all of your life its imbedded in your thoughts and that is what you tend to believe, right or wrong and the government always steps in whether if its a free democracy or a dictatorship. alot of our Presidents get voted in because of thier religion or try to swing the vote with religion. so we cant say they dont go together becasue they do

Eric you dare write where others fear to tread. I agree that the establishment clause of the constitution was again a brilliant concept -- prohibiting government from supporting any religion. I also agree that religion has played a key role in the shaping of American mores, attitudes, and politics.

I do believe a transformation can take place, a leap from religion to faith. Faith is more honest and transparent than religion. Religion tends to control and seek power. Faith tends to be vulnerable and serve. Faith is the letting go of my need to make things my way and the journey into humbly seeking the ways of the "higher authority" (I have a name for "higher authority" but I don't want to seem like a preacher or something).

Religion can turn into despotism and as we know, at its worse,even terrorism. Faith turns into love, genuine delight in the lives of others, whether others be rich or poor, male or female, well or sick, clean cut or tattooed. Faith obviously does not delight in actions and behavior that are harmful, but what a person of faith does is go to those places of hurt and humbly serves and trusts that the "higher power" can do far more than we think imaginable.

I have seen this "creativity" at work in the strangest of places, a small village in Kenya, the desolate reservations of the Lakota Indian in South Dakota, in the inner cities of metropolitan areas, and in the suburbs of America. There are incredible stories of faith, many and most never heard of because these stories are not presumptuous or self seeking.

Chuck

Our forefathers had the insite to create a country where religious beliefs could be practiced without prejudice, and government was designed to work for it's people.

However over time government has become too big, too powerful and to influenced to work for the people. Outside entities challenge religious beliefs and little by little the freedom which was a put in place as a right is now eroding away for the sake of those with all this power.


They have done this a little at a time and until technology caught up to them they were safely getting their (the government) adgendas, and taking care of themselves and families rather nicely.

With the internet and cable news we can track this at an almost instant rate and we are now being made aware of how this has happened both past and present.

This awareness is starting to wake up the masses and they as they learn more they are becoming less tolerate of the government. This current government which has gone virtually undetected in the grand scheme of things is now being constantly watched while still pushing their adgendas and people have the ability and the news to know who, how, and why. It is making the people mad as they learn more every day.

It is becoming apparant that the current way the country is being run by these people who are not interested in their constituants, but rather winning the next election and party control is getting out of our control and steps have begun to take our country back.

Don't sit back, get involved, any little way you can. ($.02)

our forefathers were disgusted with their government but couldn't change it so they moved to a new land and started over. We don't have that option and have to fix what we got. New stringers, new foam, not just a little gecoat and upholstry. We need to dig in and dig out the rot. Otherwise we'll just run it int the ground and it may not be salvageable.

Greg, I figured out "Donna the Buffalo" its a band and they are here in Cleveland   btw, a little quiet in pubby land