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Andy, staggered studs?

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8122pbrainard View Drop Down
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    Posted: November-25-2009 at 1:19pm
Andy,
I started a new tread so we don't highjack the "Chicago beers" thread again. When you we in that house with the staggered 2x4 studs with the 2x6 sole and cap plates, did they offer any wall details? Specifically, do you know what they did with header studs, trimmer studs and the headers at the RO's? Even though the 1&1/2" stud is only about 10% of the typical 16" wall section, the staggered stud concept does provide considerable R value increases in that 10% area. Wood itself only having a R value of about 1 per inch, gives the 1&1/2" section at the 2x6 a R factor of 5.5. If 2x4 staggered and foamed, the R goes up to 17.5 The typical 2x header is also a major gain. If split and insulated between the R jumps up from 5.5 to 17.5 as well. I can see no easy way to split or use a 2x4 for the trimmers.

I'm toying with the idea for my shop but the big problem is if it's worth the effort?? The concept and the out of the norm wall framing will boggle the mind of the average contractor and carpenter/framer!!! From a standpoint of complexity constuction costs jump! With a R 38 in a foamed 2x6 wall, you're already way ahead of the normal 2x4 R15 so it may not be worth it. Still, a fascinating idea.

What did this house have for windows and doors? There's your other major heat loss!

BTW, as long as we're on the subject, it's commonly misbelieved that a true log home is energy efficient. A 12" diameter log wall only has a average R of 9. That's worse than a standard fiberglass insulated 2x4 wall at about R15!!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-05-2009 at 1:22am
I do know that it was argon filled thermopanes. The house is fully tubed, with an air handler for A/C, and general fresh air exchange.

The loading looked to me to be all handled by std 2x4 framing to the inside of the wall. Some points were carried by posts, there were a few hips. End studs at door, or window locations were 2x6 stud, and headered as a 2x6 wall. Basically looked like a 2x6 exterior walled construction 'til you were about 8 foot away. Then your eyes would cross a little. I scratched my head a few times.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-05-2009 at 1:23am
BTW I left another thread jackin opening on the garage post as well. oops

I have a short attn span.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-06-2009 at 12:17am
"Andy,
I just abbreviated the air line tubing to "Pex". What I have chosen isn't the pipe sized type used for water/hydronic but a tube sized rated at 220 psi working pressure.

I did spec in a W/M Ultra but am looking at others too. I also what to listen to what the local heating contractors have to say. I think the Ultra has a recirc pump for the primary loop as well. I'll check it out.

With the hot water, I haven't really looked at many of the tankless brands very much. I want to hear what the contractors have to say. The side arm HWH indirect is a option I've already put in my spec sheet. For one bathroom it may be more than needed. (It's going in the house addition though!) A efficiency comparison between running the boiler all summer for the hot water and a less efficient on demand would be interesting. The tankless will be within 10' of the lav and directly behind the shower so the circ pump really isn't needed.

I'll take a look at the Taco - sounds interesting! Is it for HW or a hydronic zone loop control?

Thanks"

If your only useing hot water for a single bath, and your needs permit, you might be able to get away with a small electric water heater. Say 20g unit, only because of the shower. Easy maint. The maint. on the new style boilers, and tankless water heaters is really pretty basic. I'm quite positive you could do it in under an hour. The only thing you may need someone else to perform is a flame analysis. Even then only needed if your unsure of the unit. Most will tell you if they're unhappy.

The internal recirc on the Navien also serves a small buffer tank.
Try to picture this as I try to describe it in type.
You run hot water in the house. The supply piping then will have hot water in it. You turn it off, and you begin to lose a little heat. You turn on the hot water again. It will take the unit a small amt of water to fire again. Creating a "cold sandwich" if you will. The internal recirc/tank will hopefully end this small problem. That coupled with he possibility of 98% doesn't hurt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-06-2009 at 9:53am
Andy,
I did some searching/reading on the staggered studs. Everything I came across was it primarily used for sound deadening and not heat loss insulation. If I go with the spray foam, I'll end up with such a high R value when averaged with the lower 10% stud area that I feel the extra cost of doing the staggering isn't worth it.

I do understand the "sandwich" effect with the tankless.

The maintenance you are referring to, is that a periodic acid clean of the water side of the heat exchanger? Did you see Peter123's comment in the garage thread?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-06-2009 at 5:13pm
I've got a few Takagi units that have been in for 3+ yrs on well water. 2 of which are used only for hydronic. Both are on seperate wells from the house. Both guys insisted on only useing a heavy sediment filter for supply water. 0 repairs.
Maintainence is just that. Quick clean of the combustion chamber, and flush on both sides of exchanger. Useing a mild acidic to help in releasing the build up, if any.
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