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Prop shaft options

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gR@HaM View Drop Down
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    Posted: March-20-2013 at 8:06pm
I'm after some advice on replacing my banana shaped prop shaft, ideally I would like to buy a new ARE one, but the cheapest I can find (through SkiDIM) is still a lot more than I am able to budget for after adding the price of shipping to the UK and import duty.

Taking the top section of my tower to a metal fabricators today to have it shortened and TIG welded, by chance the guy who happens to be a member at the same club as me said he can make me a shaft. This would work out a lot cheaper than going down the ARE route..

I would obviously prefer to go double taper to allow me to remove the shaft much more easily if ever needed to.. but this is no longer as important to me since recently acquiring an engine lift.

So, my questions:

If I was to get a replacement single taper shaft made, the same as I currently have but straight! would I have to buy a new coupler or can I get away with cleaning up the original?

If I was to get a double taper shaft made, do you know whether it is possible to buy an ARE style coupler separately?

Thanks :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-20-2013 at 9:14pm
You would be fine with the same coupling half as long as he knows to have a heat shrink fit on the shaft. The bore of the coupling should be .000" to .0005" under size of the shaft. He should also press the coupling onto the shaft, chuck the shaft up in the lathe and take a light cut on the coupling face so it runs true to the shaft. Then he can press it back off so you can install it with the heat shrink in the boat.

BTW, we find that the cost of the ARE set up is VERY close to a single tape shaft set up over here.


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77 Tique

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gR@HaM View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gR@HaM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-20-2013 at 9:29pm
thanks Pete this is really useful information I will certainly be passing on if going down the route of getting a shaft made up. I would probably opt for leaving the coupling on the shaft and lifting the engine to eliminate the chance of me cocking it up!!

Regarding price of the ARE, it pretty much doubles as soon as I start looking at shipping and import costs!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-20-2013 at 9:33pm
With the engine and trans out, it sure makes it easy to put a single taper prop shaft in! Go for it!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MattB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-22-2013 at 7:18am
Graham, have you looked along the lines of a split coupler? asap-supplies (I cant get to thier website at the moment) have them at a reasonable price in the uk and if you are having a shaft made anyway you can get a keyway put into the coupler at the same time.
I know the A.R.E. are expensive when you add on the import duty but they are really easy to work with and skidim offer a very good service.
You have come such a long way with the boat it would be a shame to cut costs on such an important part.

Soz for the late reply I have not been on here for a couple of days.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatsat67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-22-2013 at 11:09am
218.00 40"x1" single taper from me.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TX Foilhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-22-2013 at 1:16pm
As long as you don't hit anything there's no real advantage to having the ARE. I'm assuming you have new cutlass bearings in the strut so you should need to pull it for those. Now that you've taken the motor out you know its not a real big deal so if you did need the shaft out you could just lift the motor.

By the way, be glad it's easy for you, my prop won't come off unless I drop the rudder to get a puller on it and the shaft has to go in from the back because it hits the gas tank going forward. I put some of the plastic bearings in the strut so hopefully I'll never have have to see my my drive shaft out of the boat again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gR@HaM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-22-2013 at 4:58pm
Thanks for the input guys, I've been trying to reply to this thread all day but it keeps getting knocked back by spam filters shall try one more time..
Matt, cheers for the heads up on ASAP supplies, their website was down earlier but shall keep trying, whilst on topic can you recommend any other UK based part suppliers its always good to buy local..

TXF I think you've hit the nail on the head, since pulling the prop, shaft, strut, engine, and knowing how relatively easy it is to do I wouldn't think twice about doing it again.
For me it's all about familiarising myself with the task in hand, first time its very daunting but after asking 101 questions on CCF and making a few mistakes along the way I'm good to do it all again in the future.
I haven't replaced the cutless bearing yet, but will be doing so once my very bent strut has been straightened out. I was thinking of leaving the cutless in with a cut off section of 1" prop shaft in place and hitting that with the strut in a vice using a lump hammer. It sounds brutal but currently the only way I can think of straightening it out, possibly with a bit of heat.
Anyway I digress!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-22-2013 at 6:48pm
Graham - If you can get someone to fab a frame, here is a way to straighten the strut:

Old Post
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gR@HaM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-22-2013 at 8:18pm
Originally posted by SNobsessed SNobsessed wrote:

Graham - If you can get someone to fab a frame, here is a way to straighten the strut:

Old Post


I like it, good idea thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gR@HaM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-23-2013 at 9:17am
Those split couplings look ideal, why don't people use these instead of ARE is there a down side??

http://www.asap-supplies.com/marine/split-clamp-on-half-couplings-4-inch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lewy2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-23-2013 at 9:37am
Very popular in Australia although ours have a key as well.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-23-2013 at 10:45am
Originally posted by gR@HaM gR@HaM wrote:

Those split couplings look ideal, why don't people use these instead of ARE is there a down side??

http://www.asap-supplies.com/marine/split-clamp-on-half-couplings-4-inch

In theory, they aren't as accurate especially if the bore to shaft tolerance is off more than a couple thousands. They are also more expensive - look at the machining needed to make them.

BTW, here's a true link


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TX Foilhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-23-2013 at 1:17pm
I've noticed the hot rod v drives and Dragboats use a quick connect that allows them to switch engines easily. One of the I want to do this year is figure out how they can do that without the whole alignment process or maybe they have something that allows them to do it much quicker that I haven't noticed.   The motors sit on plates instead of trational mounts and my guess is they align them at the shop and when they build the plates.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-23-2013 at 1:56pm
Originally posted by TX Foilhead TX Foilhead wrote:

I've noticed the hot rod v drives and Dragboats use a quick connect that allows them to switch engines easily. One of the I want to do this year is figure out how they can do that without the whole alignment process or maybe they have something that allows them to do it much quicker that I haven't noticed.   The motors sit on plates instead of trational mounts and my guess is they align them at the shop and when they build the plates.

They typically use dog style clutches which really isn't a clutch at all. It's more like a spider coupling without the center spider member. Yes, they can be out of alignment somewhat. It just wears the fingers more on the two halves of the dog.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gR@HaM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-23-2013 at 3:08pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by gR@HaM gR@HaM wrote:

Those split couplings look ideal, why don't people use these instead of ARE is there a down side??

http://www.asap-supplies.com/marine/split-clamp-on-half-couplings-4-inch

In theory, they aren't as accurate especially if the bore to shaft tolerance is off more than a couple thousands. They are also more expensive - look at the machining needed to make them.

BTW, here's a true link


Pete I knew you would be in there with the link
It seems my new smart phone isn't so smart afterall!!

Sounds like I should stick with my original coupling as long as it cleans up ok, I can get it pressed in at work as have box ovens capable of 500+degC
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-23-2013 at 5:32pm
Originally posted by gR@HaM gR@HaM wrote:


Pete I knew you would be in there with the link
It seems my new smart phone isn't so smart afterall!!

Sounds like I should stick with my original coupling as long as it cleans up ok, I can get it pressed in at work as have box ovens capable of 500+degC

If you have a press with enough space between the ram and base, heating isn't needed. The heat shrink is only needed if the coupling can't be pressed on. Don't forget the light cut on the face of the coupling to true it up to the shaft. (the coupling pressed on and the shaft chucked up in the lathe)


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gR@HaM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-23-2013 at 9:03pm
Yep I won't forget about getting that coupling face skimmed.
Sorry, I wasn't clear about fitting the coupling - I haven't access to a press but have to industrial high temperature ovens, so can stick the shaft in a vice heat up the coupling and knock it on
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-23-2013 at 9:20pm
Graham - It should slip on without hammering if heated.

Wear oven mitts   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-23-2013 at 11:28pm
Originally posted by SNobsessed SNobsessed wrote:

Graham - It should slip on without hammering if heated.

Wear oven mitts   

YUP!!

Graham,
Those high temp ovens you have access to, you should ask the guys running them how they are used plus expansion rates of steel by temp!!


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77 Tique

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gR@HaM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-24-2013 at 9:16am
Well I use them, mostly for curing coatings and burning off etc.
What temperature do most people take the coupling up to, to achieve enough expansion?
I appreciate this would have been covered before..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-24-2013 at 10:27am
Originally posted by gR@HaM gR@HaM wrote:

Well I use them, mostly for curing coatings and burning off etc.
What temperature do most people take the coupling up to, to achieve enough expansion?
I appreciate this would have been covered before..

You just use the ovens for burning off coatings?? I take it these are not heat treat ovens? 600 F will do it.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gR@HaM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-24-2013 at 10:34am
Ok thanks, no they are not used for heat treating they are conventional box ovens.
The lower temperature ones typically used for curing PU type coatings, the higher temperature ones for curing high melt point fluoropolymer coatings and burning off.
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