GT-40 won't start |
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MI-nick
Gold Member Joined: January-12-2009 Location: Ypsilanti, MI Status: Offline Points: 810 |
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Posted: March-30-2013 at 8:31pm |
was hoping to launch today, but not start at the ramp...just cranking. got it back home (only a few miles) and pulled a plug to check for spark...had spark. pulled the plug on the FCC and it was bone dry. key on/ignition on low pressure pump does not pump. i changed the relays since i had spares and no change. looking through a bunch of the GT-40 threads i saw that both pumps should run if you jump the STO (i think) on the EEC test connect to ground...nothing happended. it seems i have no power to the pumps. i'm going back to the GT-40 manual, but wanted to start this in case anyone can help.
so much for march wakeboarding this year |
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As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure...
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MI-nick
Gold Member Joined: January-12-2009 Location: Ypsilanti, MI Status: Offline Points: 810 |
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also, boat is a '99 SAN with ~700hrs.
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As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure...
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MI-nick
Gold Member Joined: January-12-2009 Location: Ypsilanti, MI Status: Offline Points: 810 |
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also, I did change the FCC filter last fall and with key on/ignition on I could hear the low pressure pump pumping.
i did get a good bit of water in the bilge over the winter...so maybe a bad connection somewhere...but where... |
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As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure...
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M3Fan
Grand Poobah Joined: October-22-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3185 |
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Is the 15A breaker for the pumps popped? Can you verify 12v at the pump lead with a multi tester?
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2000 SN GT40 w/99 Graphics/Gel
2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI https://forum.fifteenoff.com |
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MI-nick
Gold Member Joined: January-12-2009 Location: Ypsilanti, MI Status: Offline Points: 810 |
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breaker not popped (unless you have to push unreasonably hard to reset it). 0V at the pump lead.
the manual references a 20A breaker...but I only have 60, 15, and 12.5...is the 15 for the pumps?? |
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As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure...
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Silver15
Senior Member Joined: March-24-2010 Location: Orlando Fl Status: Offline Points: 398 |
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Our boat has two leads on the battery. One large cable for the starter and a smaller one for other things. We had exactly the same problem and later came to realize that the smaller lead was not connected to the battery. Once reconnected, the pumps worked and everything ran fine. I have no idea if what I have is stock configuration..? But may be worth checking. Perhaps one of your leads came loose or disconnected all together.
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2000 Air/Sport
1978 T16 |
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MI-nick
Gold Member Joined: January-12-2009 Location: Ypsilanti, MI Status: Offline Points: 810 |
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well...i don't know what to say...i went out this morning armed with circuit diagram and multi meter determined to track down the problem...turned the key and hit the ignition switch and to my surprise I heard the LP pump kick on...jumped the STO to ground and heard both pumps run
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As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure...
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MI-nick
Gold Member Joined: January-12-2009 Location: Ypsilanti, MI Status: Offline Points: 810 |
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boat started and ran fine in the driveway tonight...eventually. at first it just cranked and cranked. i heard the pumps running...but, i checked the FCC bowl again anyway...got a couple drips out and that was it. disconnected the feed line from LP pump to FCC, stuck it in a bucket, unplugged the HP pump, and jumped the STO to ground. no fuel coming out of the LP pump. the pump was running and sounded fine, but no fuel. disconnected the feed line from the tank, connected a small hose to the feed side and stuck that in a small can of gas. jumped again to ground and it pumped out my little can pretty quick. hooked the feed line from the tank back up, jumped it and it pumped fuel just fine. hooked everything back up and hooked up the water hose and hit the key...just cranked and cranked again. $%^^%$$$#!!!!!!! i was checking everything out with a flashlight (of course it was dark by then)...and realized i didn't reconnect the HP pump connector...fired right up and idled fine. now i'm relaxing with a tall glass of jameson and wondering why the LP pump lost it's prime...
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As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure...
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quinner
Grand Poobah Joined: October-12-2005 Location: Unknown Status: Offline Points: 5828 |
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Had a similar problem starting an Excal after changing the FCC filter. I ended up pouring small amounts of fuel down the throttle body, after the 3rd or fourth gulp of gas it started and stayed running, never another problem.
Had previously reinstalled the filter into an empty canister, cycled the ignition on/off several times, and fired right up, not sure why that time it was different. Next time I change one, will definitely put some fresh fuel in the canister before reinstalling. |
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
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Check the antisiphon valve on the tank? Is there gas in the tank?
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MI-nick
Gold Member Joined: January-12-2009 Location: Ypsilanti, MI Status: Offline Points: 810 |
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tank was 1/2 full...i'm not THAT dumb.
you did read the part where it started and ran fine, right?? |
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As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure...
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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The manual states that if you run out of gas you need to turn the key on/off several times to purge the air/prime the pump. Emptying the filter would be like running out of fuel.
Also does yours have an additional in-line fuel filter my '95 does yours may not. You can see it in the pic below on the left side by the stringer. |
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MI-nick
Gold Member Joined: January-12-2009 Location: Ypsilanti, MI Status: Offline Points: 810 |
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i did the key on/off cycle many times. the LP pump didn't start pulling fuel until i hooked up a short (12") fuel line and stuck that in a small can of gas. then it would pull fuel from the tank.
no inline filter on my boat. |
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As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure...
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lewy2001
Grand Poobah Joined: March-19-2008 Location: NSW Australia Status: Offline Points: 2234 |
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The GT40 manual in the reference section was for the early GT40's without the FCC. The 20 amp breaker is now replaced with the 15 amp and it is for the fuel pumps. I would also remove and clean the anti syphon valve. |
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If you're going through hell, keep going
89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
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MI-nick
Gold Member Joined: January-12-2009 Location: Ypsilanti, MI Status: Offline Points: 810 |
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fired up and ran like a top yesterday. boat is on the lift for the summer.
i did order a spare anti siphon valve just in case it starts happening again... |
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As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure...
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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Was it the anti-siphon valve?
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MI-nick
Gold Member Joined: January-12-2009 Location: Ypsilanti, MI Status: Offline Points: 810 |
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i think it had more to do with draining the FCC for a filer change and not putting fuel in the FCC bowl when I put it back together. i'm speculating (given other members' reports) that the anti siphon may have contributed...they are cheap so I ordered one as a potential replacement if the condition happens again. could be a waste of money or a quick and easy fix... |
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As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure...
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MI-nick
Gold Member Joined: January-12-2009 Location: Ypsilanti, MI Status: Offline Points: 810 |
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well...similar thing happened again tonight. i pulled off the lift and was idling around waiting for a friend...just as i pulled back on the lift, the boat stalled out. i cranked it and it would start briefly and die...then not start at all. i bought a code reader due to my previous problems and did the KOEO test...code 11, no faults. disconnected the line from the LP pump to the FCC and jumped the STO...no fuel coming out. i did the same business where i disconnected the feed line and used a short line in a can of gas...which the LP pump quickly emptied when I jumped the STO to ground. it MAY have discharged a chunk of something like a 1/4" piece of leaf...maybe. i also changed the anti-siphon valve since I had a spare (old one seemed to be fine...ball moved freely). hooked the feed line back up to the tank and it would pull fuel from the tank. hooked everything back up and it started and ran fine for ~15 minutes (i had about 4 trouble free hours prior to this). what could cause this to happen??? i'm glad it's running fine again, but worried it will happen again.
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As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure...
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75 animal
Newbie Joined: December-01-2011 Location: australia Status: Offline Points: 18 |
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To prime the FCC just turn the key a half dozen times or so. Leave the key on long enough so the low pressure pump has time to pump. Works for me!
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MI-nick
Gold Member Joined: January-12-2009 Location: Ypsilanti, MI Status: Offline Points: 810 |
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i appreciate the effort...but this really has nothing to do with my problem. and to clarify, the LP pump should only run for a couple of seconds when the key is cycled from off to ignition. leaving the key on (ignition) has no effect for either pump. |
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As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure...
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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Have you tried replacing the fuel pump relays?
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75 animal
Newbie Joined: December-01-2011 Location: australia Status: Offline Points: 18 |
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Sorry but my input was to only aid the priming of the FCC. It was said that you would put fresh fuel in next time. I don't need to do rid as I prime the FCC in the way I described. Priming the FCC was the only point I was trying to make. Sorry for the confusion
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lewy2001
Grand Poobah Joined: March-19-2008 Location: NSW Australia Status: Offline Points: 2234 |
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Nick food for thought.
Maybe some debris in the tank is getting picked up intermittently? Inspect and clean tank if required. While your in the tank check if you have a screen on bottom of fuel tank pickup line that is partially blocked. Have you checked fuel tank vent? Try removing the fuel cap next time it happens to help diagnose. Possibility that the LP fuel pump is on the way out if it only happens after a couple of hours use. Note the GT40 computer assumes it has correct fuel pressure at injectors. It does not store a code for low fuel pressure. Would be a nice feature if it did. |
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If you're going through hell, keep going
89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
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MI-nick
Gold Member Joined: January-12-2009 Location: Ypsilanti, MI Status: Offline Points: 810 |
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i did try removing the fuel cap last time it happened and it did not help.
relays have been replaced. i bought a new LP pump just in case...i want to try to induce the problem and then change pumps and see if the new pump will pull fuel from the tank. i'm thinking the pump is going...it "should" be able to pull fuel from the tank even when dry. debris is a possibility, but I'd like to avoid pulling the tank just because it would be a big hassle...i have been thinking about adding and in line filter from tank to LP pump... |
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As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure...
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MI-nick
Gold Member Joined: January-12-2009 Location: Ypsilanti, MI Status: Offline Points: 810 |
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i think i may have it figured out. last night i was able to re-create the failure by disconnecting the feed line at the tank and then running the pump dry. i hooked the feed line back up to the tank and let the pump run for a good 20-30 seconds...would not pull any fuel from the tank. swapped in the new pump and it pulled fuel from the tank almost immediately. i pulled the cover off the old pump and found a good bit of junk in there. i think this has more to do with restricting/limiting flow than the pump itself...but at least it works now. hopefully i don't have to open this thread up again.
LP pump with the cover off and screen removed...pretty gunked up.. LP pump filter screen...also pretty gunked up... |
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As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure...
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