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For the folks w/ the C H I mods

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TX Foilhead View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
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    Posted: September-25-2013 at 11:08pm
OK, after wa to much time, too many attempts at adjusting the valves and mowng 250 yards, I've got here running again. Picked up 2 or 3 mph, and the the 0 to riding is really quick.   Problem is it seems to be running rich, lots of soot on he transom.   

What did you guys do to the carb?

I was able to keep the spacer with the Performer RPM, so it may be somewhat different than what most are doing. Pretty happy with the results I see on the GPS, although the butt dyno doesn't notice as big a difference as it was hoping for.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-26-2013 at 10:10am
I assume youre talking a p-head/RPM/Cam Research upgrade. That might put you in the 325hp range. Most people are coming from the base (240hp) engine, not the ProBoss, so the difference is more dramatic. 2-3mph up top is very solid.

Regarding the carb, Ive never been entirely happy with my Holleys on my 351w. New and used both are rich at idle and leave a mess on the transom. For optimal all around performance, consider converting to a rear metering block so you can tune the jets both front and rear. I believe Alan found the stock jetting to be pretty fat, even for a much hotter motor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-26-2013 at 10:45am
The butt dyno on that boat would be best helped by a modern prop, dont know if anyone makes one that can do for that boat what a 540 can do for a direct drive. Either way between the motor being in back and the lifting of the boat out of the water (as opposed to a flat bottom boat that just scoots forward) its always going to take a little to get that thing up and gitty up.
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TX Foilhead View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TX Foilhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-26-2013 at 11:45am
I'll probably have to give a mph back when I put the back seat and the sunpad on, but I did have 200lbs of lead in the bow which kills most of the bow rise. The glassy water wasn't helping me out either. Prop is a 328, kind of stuck there until Simone with a short driveshaft finds something better.   I guess there always the 409 or a BB.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatsat67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-26-2013 at 11:49am
Don, what kind of RPM are you getting out of the 328? We short shafted Mark's 91 with the big block and it's spinning a 644 4850 when it's running right. It ran 51.9 GPS but it hasn't got back to that yet. Having fuel delivery issues.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-26-2013 at 12:16pm
Zach, remember that Mark has a big block, so prop selection is going to be a little different from a small block- even if hp level is comparable. Big cubes = big prop. I still think the 644 is a bit too small for optimal performance on a big block, but might be a touch too large for a small block.

Im pretty sure that we confirmed the 328 is a pancake, right? That'll push the nose down. Same goes for the lead in the bow, obviously. Anything you can do to get the nose up at speed will improve your top end. We'd need to know accurate RPM and speed numbers to really weigh in on a better recommendation.
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Grand Poobah
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatsat67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-26-2013 at 12:23pm
For sure. I am more curious on what the warmed up SBF is turning the 328. It is for sure a pancake.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TX Foilhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-26-2013 at 1:08pm
When I got the boat and added the 328 the best it did was 49.6 @ 5200 in some pretty nasty water. Right now with lead ballast, at least 200lbs of stereo gear and 500 more hrs on the motor it running 45 @ 4600. It's still creeping up, but I notice ya bit of a pop 2 times after about 30sec @ WOT so I got out of it. Same setup was 42, maybe 43 with the right wind before. I'm sure I could get some mph if take out some of extra weight like it was originally, but that's a PITA and we don't need it to go past 30 for anything we do.

The mid range is great, from watching the PP set at 24 hard 180 turns would slow it down about 1 mph less and it would recover to +26 before it could catch itself. Before it would rarely get past 25. That mid range is really what I was looking for because we do use that for the ski show at the Drag Boat race. If anything I was hoping it would feel more like the BBC in the Epic we used this year, it doesn't, but I won't have to help it out near as much with the throttle as I did in the past. It's hard on the riders and me to keep a consistent speed with a hard turn every 200 yards. The BBC does it almost effortlessly and I'd like the Excel to do more like that.

I'm going to try and run most of a tank of fuel trough it this weekend and see if the richness is maybe just a little funk in the carb from sitting for so long. It was definitely running better when I got back to the trailer than it was when I left so maybe the improvement will continue with a little more time.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 89Martinique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-26-2013 at 5:11pm
how about a Quick Fuel carb? Fully adjustable, mechanical or vacuum secondaries...

Why bother with a BBC? another 200+ lbs! GO for an LS or LSX motor, they weigh less than the 351W and provide more power than the BBC...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatsat67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-26-2013 at 5:17pm
Mark is thinking pretty hard about a 409.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-26-2013 at 5:23pm
Originally posted by TX Foilhead TX Foilhead wrote:

When I got the boat and added the 328 the best it did was 49.6 @ 5200 in some pretty nasty water. Right now with lead ballast, at least 200lbs of stereo gear and 500 more hrs on the motor it running 45 @ 4600. It's still creeping up, but I notice ya bit of a pop 2 times after about 30sec @ WOT so I got out of it. Same setup was 42, maybe 43 with the right wind before.

Those numbers seem very strange to me. I have not found any of my boats, stock or not, to have their top speeds influenced by the amount of weight Im carrying. Wet foam, 6+ passengers, etc. Its all hull. The hole shot and speed holding will suffer with a heavier boat, but not top end. Depending on the weight placement, more weight can actually speed it up a little if its situated towards the rear and lifts the nose of the boat out of the water slightly. Though, I have found the v-hulls respond to this trick to a much lesser degree than the flat bottoms.

I just cant see any possible weighting configuration stripping your boat of 7-8mph. Thats just crazy. Was that 49.6@5200 way out of family with what you would typically see for a top end speed? I think something else was going on that was hurting your performance.

Whatever it was, it sounds like its still affecting you if youre still only pushing 4600rpm with a stock sized Acme. 5200 would be more in line with 325hp on tap. I would expect your boat with that kind of power to be pushing low 50's, as that seems to be typical with the stock big block set up.

Have you done a compression test?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-26-2013 at 5:25pm
Oh, and I have found that a small block Ford, modified to the hp level youre talking, to be a much more responsive engine than a stock big block. Holeshot and speed holding should be superior on the small block, and they should run similar up top. Thats another clue that something isnt quite right.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TX Foilhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-26-2013 at 6:36pm
The weight is in the completely wrong spots for it to run fast, there's almost 200lbs of lead (steel shot) under the bow light.   Another 200 lbs around the back seat with the 2 extra stereo batteries, and the huge Bimini isn't doing me any favors, it's pushing down the bow as well and acting like a sail.

I really think that the prop was changed when it was repaired, It never has had the speed since then, but like I said we don't need it and very rarely run it fast enough to open the secondaries. Keeping the bow planted like that makes it ride like a dream, but the hull is very wet. When it it was nearing 50 the hull wasn't nearly as planted in the 40's as it feels now, so it could be a combination of things. Hate to buy the same prop new just to test my theory
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-26-2013 at 6:53pm
50mph @ 5200rpm and 45mph @ 4600 RPM are consistent numbers- so the prop doesnt appear to have been messed with based on that. You just dont have the same hp to pull it. A change in 600rpm is huge- thats about 80hp.

400 lbs spaced evenly around the boat is nothing. Thats 2 guys my size sitting up front... no big deal. I have found the bimini to have no noticeable effect at normal speeds, and I know Joe has found the tower and speakers to have no effect in terms of air resistance even when approaching 60mph.

I think you have other engine issues.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatsat67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-26-2013 at 6:55pm
Put a blower on it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TX Foilhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-29-2013 at 11:20pm
Thought about a blower, no intakes for a whipple so I never got to figuring out the reverse rotation issue.

Put 3 or 4 hrs on it, no skiing because we were blown out yesterday and no driver today. Quick run down the lake tonight, 4 miles cuising about 35 (gotta love that v-hull), last 1/2 mile I opened it up and about 20 secs in it pops. I got out of it and tripped it back to about 35 again. At that point I have to make a fairly hard 180 at a bridge, as I'm working it through the turn (it wants to cavitate the prop) I'm working the throttle just for fun and it backfires and dies. One pop, not loud but louder than the others. I turn the key of and back on only thing that looks bad is temp at 180, fire it up first try and everything reads normal so I run home. 35 all the way, no issues even made 20 or so turns at that speed, but left the throttle alone in the turns then put the hammer down going to the other side of the river.

Any ideas? I'm going to check the timing tommorow the heads were milled for 10:1 with flat top pistons in a mustang, I may have a little more CR, but it's full of 93 octane.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote E4ODnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-13-2013 at 2:37am
TRBenj brings up a good point.

I'm not a great fan of anything Holley, but I never thought of converting the rear metering block. My testing confirms his findings in that they are over rich at idle and part throttle. Mixture gets progressively better up to ~ 5" vacuum when it gets over rich again when the power valve opens up. The after ~ 5" vacuum part is not a major problem, it's the idle and part throttle that are a much less that ideal. The engine runs well enough, it's just unnecessarily hard on fuel and can kind of soot things up. The conversion is certainly worth a try.
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