DIY Perfect Pass Speed Control, take 2

1984 Ski Nautique 2001
Engine Model PRD WR R10
Pleasurecraft Marine
Right-Hand Rotation from Rear
351 CID
Warner Velvet Drive Model 10-17-003
Direct Drive (1:1)


As you may (or may not) recall, last summer (2013) I bought our 1984 Ski Nautique for my daughter to slalom behind and my son to wakeboard behind. I spent most of last season getting the mechanicals and electricals straightened out. It's in pretty good shape now, but some things are always ongoing.


HOLDING SPEED

We have of course encountered the issue with holding a steady speed. This is important for slalom runs, but even more important for the wakeboarders, as the character and spacing of the wake changes a lot with small changes in speed. I promised everyone involved that I would do my best to put a reasonably-priced speed control on the boat.


PRIOR CCFAN THREADS

So, this is sort of a continuation of Boat Dr's "Redneck Perfect Pass" thread.

I have also reviewed the Poor mans perfect pass? cruise control and Audio Vox Cruise Control threads.

I look forward to input from Doc Billy (Boat Dr), Tim (Morfoot), Kristof (Kristof), Pete (8122pbrainard), Steve (RainDog), Tim (TRBenj), Matt (Brktracer), Ryan (form&function), Tom (Tomski), Tom (horkn), Joey (akabulla), Jody (FI Inboards)... basically from anyone who has done this type of thing or is interested in doing it.

I also looked around on planetnautique and some other sites, but I think with the installation that Doc has done, the best info is probably here on CCFan.


THIS THREAD

Ok... the purpose of this first post is to get some questions out there and some general discussion going.


CRUISE CONTROL -- CCS-100



The AudioVox CCS-100 Cruise Control, which is the unit Doc used, seems to be a good choice. It is no longer available from AudioVox, but a CCS-100 clone is available from Murphs' Kits. That page includes a link to the Installation Manual and there is also a Troubleshooting Guide available.

In addition, you can still find the original AudioVox Installation Manual and more.

Here is the control panel:




And installed on Doc's boat:




I was lucky enough to score a new-in-box AudioVox CCS-100 unit for $45 on craigslist.


SERVO INPUT -- RPM, PADDLE WHEEL, GPS

A speed control needs some sort of servo input. The CCS-100 could be set up to hold constant RPM by using magnets attached to the driveshaft, as Doc did. It was a little confusing that there is also a blue wire which goes to the ignition coil, but per the AudioVox Installation Manual the blue wire is for the "over rev" protection circuit. So for constant RPM, the servo is using the pick-up pulses from the driveshaft magnets.

It's also possible to "slave" speed controls to some sort of speed input. One option is a thru-hull paddle wheel, which will provide true speed over the water. Another is a GPS speed signal, which will provide true speed over land (i.e. relative to the GPS satellite net), but cannot see the speed of any current on a river, for instance (so wakeboarding upriver and then downriver with a strong current would require different speed settings). Note that sometimes ground speed could be desired even in a strong current, such as running a course of slalom buoys on a river.

In any case, I don't care about the small speed difference due to a current and I don't want to cut through the hull, so it's either constant RPM or GPS speed control for me. Based on the discussions in the linked threads above, for wakeboarding I might as well go with GPS speed, as the RPM's can change in holding speed for an aggressive rider. While cell phone coverage can be spotty where we boat, GPS is of course available. Also, I'm fairly comfortable with the engineering involved, and in the end it'll probably be easier for me to slave to a GPS than to get the magnets to stay in place...


GPS SPEED SIGNAL

The CCS-100 can be set to accept the signal from an automobile's Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS), which provides a stream of pulses at a rate proportional to the speed. Earlier cars used square-wave DC pulses, while some later cars used sine-wave AC pulses. I am pretty sure the CCS-100 expects square-wave DC pulses. The engine computer module (ECM) for different cars used different pulse rates, measured in pulses per mile (PPM). The CCS-100 can be set to 2k, 4k, 5k or 8k PPM (where k means thousand, e.g. 8k PPM = 8,000 PPM). So the idea is to use a GPS reciever which provides a compatible pulse rate at a compatible voltage to provide the input to the speed control servo.


GPS OPTIONS

As is no surprise, it looks like GPS options have improved since those threads were written. For example, this one looks promising:

JEGS 41612 - 4k, 8k, 16k PPM

It appears that the Nordskog GPS speedo is no longer available (?).

There are also GPS pucks that put out lots of info (not just speed):

Garmin 18x LVC

GlobalSat BR-355

The problem I have with those is that I don't know if the output formats provide a pulsed speed stream--maybe someone here is familiar with them. The formats include NMEA 0183 data format or GARMIN proprietary format. The NMEA standard appears to be based on strings of digital parameters, so I doubt the pulsed stream is supported.


SOME QUESTIONS -- FEEL FREE TO ADD MORE

1. Emergency Disengage -- Doc, you said that bumping the throttle causes the over rev protection to shut down the cruise control. Another option is of course to turn the key off. Based on your experience with your installation, do you think it'd be worth installing a "disengage" button, which would be connected to the brake pedal circuit (rather than just grounding it out)? There is an OFF button on the control panel, but it's small and not easy to hit quickly if there's a problem--we circle close to skiers and boarders in the water all the time.

2. GPS Speed Pulses -- I'm wondering if I will need to set the GPS to something like 8k PPM and the CCS-100 to something like 4k PPM. Then when the boat is doing 20 mph the cruise control will think it's doing 40 mph. I bring this up because the CCS-100 will not engage below about 30 mph. This would reduce sensitivity, but I think it should still be sensitive enough: (20 miles/hour)(8000 pulses/mile)/(3600 seconds/hour) = about 44 pulses/second. So even at 4k PPM, the cruise control will see 22 pulses per second. Obviously the unit needs to time several pulses to recognize speed changes--I don't know how many, but the dip switches provide Low, Medium and High settings for Sensitivity, which I suspect change the logic on the number of pulses used. Any thoughts on these pulse settings? I would also like to tie the GPS pulse signal to an inexpensive digital speedo display to mount near the speed control panel, something like the old Nordskog display (probably don't need the leading digit unless we're in a really, really strong current, though):




3. Installation "Gotcha's" -- What are some of the issues that pop up while installing the speed control?



Thanks in advance for any and all input.

Steve



.

Never mind gathering information, get on with it! I've had a CCS sitting in the top of my tool chest for about three years for this very project, I need inspiration.

Good work on the GPS as well, I spoke to a few people about this, but could never get them to understand that all the CC needs is a pulse and it doesn't care where it comes from. A freind of a friend thought he could write an app for a smartphone that would generate a pulse, but then summer came and i never pursued it with him.

It seems to me that devising something to attach at the throttle that will work but still allow manual operation is the most taxing, or at least making it smooth and fail safe is. Obviously, with a solid rod cable, rather than wire as on a car it's a bit more involved.

Interesting you were thinking of wiring in a switch to the brake circuit, I was thinking the same and thought about putting a little switch on the throttle lever somewhere.

I look forwrd to progress reports.

Tom

Does the carbureted version of Perfect pass use a solid rod linkage and a two way (push / pull) servo?

The GPS would be the way to go, if you can get the resolution high enough at the speeds you will be boarding at. For sure, a strong boarder/skier can slow the boat down enough to be noticeable, even if the speed control is applying more throttle to maintain RPM. If the GPS-CCS resolution is not high enough, real world performance may be no better than RPM control. A spot-on Carb Tune will be helpful as well.

Tomski wrote: Never mind gathering information, get on with it! I've had a CCS sitting in the top of my tool chest for about three years for this very project, I need inspiration.

Same here!!
Still haven't gotten around installing it... Got a bunch of pics from Billy's boat when I was staying at his house.

And the whole techincal stuff is a little above my head, but intresting read.

So, I added this thread in my favorites and notification on

New to the forum but not new to making something functional on the cheap. Check this out, It seems like it might work well to provide an input to the audiovox system.

http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=837/category_id=646/mode=prod/prd837.htm

Hi Matt,

Welcome to the forum. I had looked at the Dakota Digital, but it's twice the cost of the Veethree or the Intellitronix (JEGS) units. If the Veethree doesn't work, I'll possibly switch to the Dakota.

Steve

Yes, that's true, but I don't see us losing GPS signal. We boat on lakes and rivers, and while some people claim treelines can block GPS signals, I've never seen it myself (handheld units in boats and cars).

I'm attempting to keep the cost reasonable and see if the system will be responsive enough. I'm also making adjustments so that it can be engaged at the different speeds needed for slaloming, wakeboarding and wakesurfing. Anyway, if someone needs to spend $300 to $400 for parts, then the Perfect Pass rpm mode for $675 (I think) looks more attractive. I'm closer to $220 for parts (and I've spent about $155, because I found a new-in-box CCS-100 on craigslist).

The Veethree has selectable 8k and 16k ppm modes, and the CCS-100 has 2k, 4k, 5k and 8k modes. I'll be starting with the GPS at twice the CCS mode, which will drop the minimum engage speed to about 15 mph. Then I'll try the GPS at four times the CCS mode to allow speed control at wakesurf speeds. There will be an effect on response, so we will see. I have a speed display that will also connect directly to the GPS stream and should be adjustable as needed, we'll see. So I should end up with a GPS speedo, speed control down to around 7 mph, the usual set/resume/accel/coast functions, plus a disengage button at the driver's thumb. One step at a time, though. :)

Hi Matt, winter hit in Wisconsin and I've done nothing since then. Will be uncovering the boat pretty soon and get back on this project and the surf gate project, as well. Plus my son wants a heater..... no rest for the weary. I have all of the speed control stuff on a workbench here in my office, but got to the point where I want nice weather to continue. I'll update this thread as soon as I learn any more.

Winters really suck up here...

I also thought about wiring in a switch on the throttle mechanism or the actual throttle arm at the motor to disengage the cruise (brake circuit). Ive got such a switch on the throttle body of my mustang. When the throttle linkage is advanced to wide open throttle it trips a small simple switch that then enables the nitrous system on my car. Its stupid simple and works really well. Heres a link to such a switch on Summit Racing:http://www.summitracing.com/parts/nex-15516?seid=srese1&gclid=CKb32sK41sQCFYY8gQoda48ATQ

That way when someone falls riding, if your like me, I instantly pull back on the throttle to roughly neutral, let the rollers pass and turn around and pick them up.... the cruise would be disengaged at that point because of the switch. Let me know if you have any other ideas.

As promised here are some pictures of the cruise progress so far.

Zero cruise throttle:





100 percent cruise throttle:


Overview:



Closer view of the slide block:



So the purpose of this block and spring system is to allow the boat throttle system to work as normal, but also allow the cruise actuator to advance or return the throttle independent of the throttle lever by the captain's chair.

If a picture is worth a 1000 words, a video might be worth a million! Excuse the crappy quality, it was shot to send by text.
View My Video

We just bought a 1999 Air Nautique with a gt40. It has what looks like a speed control of some kind in the center of the steering wheel. The print on the plastic cover of the hub in the center of the steering wheel says DAVIS. Does anyone know anything about this?

Hello all, my apologies for the long absence. I hope everyone is well.

We had a major change with the restructuring of health insurance that took place five or eight years ago. The good option we had with me being a self-employed consultant was of course legislated out of existence. For awhile we paid the $3,000 a month premiums but gave up on that. So my wife went to a full-time job, which messed up our boating time. Some AHP plans are supposedly on the horizon, but never seem to materialize.

Long story short, we've decided to sell our home and buy one on a lake or river in the Fox Valley of Wisconsin. Selling our home has taken much more time and effort than I expected.

Longer story short (sorry...), the boats have been in a friend's farm shed for three years now, except for Labor Day holidays.

If/when we get all these life changes completed, I'll get back to boat projects, including the speed control. My disdain for all things political has grown exponentially, but our love of boating remains strong. We'll get there eventually. I might even be able to semi-retire. :)

Yes, thanks, I have been looking at it. I figured out after a closer look that it indicates the rudder position. The perfect pass is on the dash. It looks pretty basic, just a couple buttons, no led display, there is also some kind of dial attached to a cable and some kind of servo on the engine. I didn't mess with any of that stuff when I did the water test. Any info on that system would help me when we get a chance to run the boat soon in the next couple weeks. Our old '83 SN 2001 didn't have any of this kind of gear so my experience is limited.

Kristof wrote: Is it just me or is there anybody else not seeing the pictures? Maybe it's due to the fact that I am in Europe, but I can't see the pictures. Nor can I load the URL from the pictures in a new tab...

Nope, it's not just you

By the way, have a Happy 50th Belgian birthday today, (thought I'd just sneak that in)