Boats For Sale:
Commander Marine Engines_All things Commander |
Post Reply 
|
| Author | |
jimships 
Newbie 
Joined: February-09-2022 Location: texas Status: Offline Points: 18 |
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote Reply
 Topic: Commander Marine Engines_All things CommanderPosted: February-11-2022 at 11:12am |
|
Hi Gang,
Several members have asked me to open a post on this forum to discuss "all things Commander Marine Engines." I was the Past GM and Chief Engineer for them some 4 years back in the 80's. Lot's of stories there and will share quips and tech as they come up. The other post I created addressed Ford 351W/302 Engine and Starter Rotation. See that if you are having some difficulty understanding what rotations you need. Welcome. All Jim Rohr |
|
|
1986 Martinique
|
|
 |
|
|
63 Skier
Grand Poobah 
Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4256 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: February-11-2022 at 11:48am |
|
Hi Jim, thanks for doing this, really interesting to hear some history from the inside. I read the other thread and look forward to learning more here. I had never heard of a "Clevor", and the explanation that it was a "real" 300 HP version vs. the Commander 300 that was more of a run of the mill 260 HP was a good piece of information.
|
|
|
'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
|
|
|
|
|
fanofccfan
Platinum Member 
Joined: December-13-2009 Location: North Bend NE Status: Offline Points: 1746 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: February-11-2022 at 2:06pm |
|
Nice! Now about that list of part numbers you referred to in the other thread?
|
|
|
2004 196 LE Ski 1969 Marauder 19 1978 Ski
|
|
|
|
|
jimships
Newbie
Joined: February-09-2022 Location: texas Status: Offline Points: 18 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: February-11-2022 at 3:29pm |
|
It's in another city in storage...I think.
Cheers |
|
|
1986 Martinique
|
|
|
|
|
KENO
Grand Poobah
Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10831 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: February-11-2022 at 6:15pm |
|
Since people often have wiring questions, do you have a wiring diagram for earlier engines and/or later engines?
There's an early manual here in the CCF reference section, that has a diagram on page 11 of 12. One of those 12 pages is missing..............guess which one What years was the company in business and what years were the early/late years. A popular misconception for many years on CCF was that the only USCG legal fuel line from the pump to the carburetor was metal. I seem to think that Commanders came with a USCG approved big rubber reinforced fuel line from the factory. Numerous photos and the ones I've seen in real life show that line. There's a thread here on CCF from a few years ago about a new never started 1979 SN that was in storage for 35ish years and it has a rubber fuel line. Since the rubber was probably more expensive than the metal, was there some special reason for the rubber line other than it was easier to work with and met all the requirements? No need to explain the requirements, it's been hammered out more than once on here what the requirements are for rubber fuel lines and connectors |
|
|
|
|
jimships
Newbie
Joined: February-09-2022 Location: texas Status: Offline Points: 18 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: February-11-2022 at 6:29pm |
|
I'm sure I can find a wiring diagram.
I'll check my resume. It shows the time periods I was GM and then after the company sale to Dietz/Rank I was moved to Chief Engineer to design the GM line. It is my understanding (ABYC AND SAE) not to use rubber from fuel pump to carb due to the 4-7 psi pressure and more like the heat. Often people changed pumps and the hard tube was replaced to accommodate the change in FP outlet position. Only real issue I see on hose is the exhaust stack from number 5 potentially melting the standard hose. I recommend hard pipe. Over... |
|
|
1986 Martinique
|
|
|
|
|
KENO
Grand Poobah
Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10831 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: February-11-2022 at 6:54pm |
|
But 351 Commanders came with rubber hose from the factory when you were there didn't they?
You might need to review some ABYC and USCG regs about fuel line Here's an old thread with lots of discussion and links to ABYC and USCG requirements |
|
|
|
|
jimships
Newbie
Joined: February-09-2022 Location: texas Status: Offline Points: 18 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: February-11-2022 at 8:03pm |
|
Read your links, Thanks for the refresher.
Both steel with internal flare fittings or Fuel Hose USCG approved Type A1-15 are both acceptable. I'm still partial to steel for the stated reason(s). This way there is no way for the pressure side to move (i.e. on engine). I can't speak for the early years (pre-1982 something)... I can speak for the four years I was there and what I designed for GM and Fords. We had steel lines produced to match pump to Holley routing. It's a big deal if a fuel line fails and the engine is deemed at fault. A very big deal. |
|
|
1986 Martinique
|
|
|
|
|
KENO
Grand Poobah
Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10831 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: February-12-2022 at 8:28am |
|
Well, since nobody else seems to be asking anything, here's another question You have any details on the Commander 351 Turbostar in the link below from 1982? |
|
|
|
|
63 Skier
Grand Poobah
Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4256 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: February-12-2022 at 11:36am |
|
Interesting link Ken. I'm wondering whey they call it "our line of V-4 engines"?
|
|
|
'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
|
|
|
|
|
jimships
Newbie
Joined: February-09-2022 Location: texas Status: Offline Points: 18 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: February-13-2022 at 8:57am |
|
Just prior to my tenure turbo engines were an option.
Based on Gail Banks turbos, we built several versions including a 4 cyl. Boost was set to 1.5 psi using a waste gate on the carb can. They had lots of promise, but the option was expensive and people routinely increased the boost past the ability for the pistons to handle the cyl Pressure. The waste gate was easily adjusted up in pressure - tightened the spring screw. After a bunch of over-boosted engine returns during the warranty period, the program was abandoned. People wanted more hp. It caused me to look for more hp using up to a 9:1 ratio configuration. Enter Clevor stage right. Lol. |
|
|
1986 Martinique
|
|
|
|
|
jimships
Newbie
Joined: February-09-2022 Location: texas Status: Offline Points: 18 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: February-23-2022 at 8:42am |
|
Update:
Heading down to storage this weekend. (Only 300 miles away.) I will look for my Commander archives when there. I have some but not volumes of stuff. Specifically looking for the Commander Parts Manual > Ford P/N "conversion file(s)."
Jim |
|
|
1986 Martinique
|
|
|
|
|
KENO
Grand Poobah
Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10831 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March-07-2022 at 6:28am |
|
Long weekend?
Still looking?
|
|
|
|
|
jimships
Newbie
Joined: February-09-2022 Location: texas Status: Offline Points: 18 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March-07-2022 at 8:58am |
|
I went down south and dove into 10 file cabinets. I did not see much in terms of Commander items. I now believe they "burned at the last purge" - along with over 150 books and 5 file cabinets worth of paper. "It was a cleansing event." Coupled with the last summer live auction of over 320 items that followed, I still have 2 tractor trailers worth left.
Repeat after me: "I hoard things and am powerless over my sickness" LOL Work on my 1986 Martinique continues. 50% point. Engine is done, aft stringers now replaced, new seats here and covering boards off to be recovered. Fuel tank going back in this week. Control being restored. Teak is being restored. Lost all the vinyl's to sun and time. I did find some Commander engine "pro photos" in my photo book and will post when I have time. BTW: This is the PCM restored and fully operational. 320 hours showing on the clock.  |
|
|
1986 Martinique
|
|
|
|
|
john_sn
Newbie
Joined: August-02-2021 Location: Meridian, MS Status: Offline Points: 27 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March-09-2022 at 1:47pm |
 Here is the wiring diagram from the owner's manual of my '79 ski nautique.
|
|
|
|
|
KENO
Grand Poobah
Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10831 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March-09-2022 at 7:21pm |
|
I don't think I'd depend on that diagram for any ignition wiring/troubleshooting issues.
It seems like no matter how hard I try, I can't get 12 volts to the ballast resistor with the key in the Run position with that diagram Or get a signal to the tach from the coil either. Maybe somebody can straighten me out
|
|
|
|
|
jimships
Newbie
Joined: February-09-2022 Location: texas Status: Offline Points: 18 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March-10-2022 at 5:49am |
|
Broken wire, bad connector connection, a grounding problem, or ballast resistor open problem?
OHM your ballast resistor (wires off), back trace your resistor wire to the tach positive and then on to the key switch ignition side. Are you getting 12VDC ignition and start outputs from the key switch? Is the key switch not energized at all? Does the starter operate correctly? What IS working? Make sure your ground connections are all low resistance (less than 1 ohms). I have seen grounding issues drive bad positive lead results. |
|
|
1986 Martinique
|
|
|
|
|
KENO
Grand Poobah
Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10831 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March-10-2022 at 6:23am |
The only thing that's broken is the wiring diagram itself Using that diagram, can it be explained how 12 volts gets to the ballast resistor with the key switch in the Run position and also how the tach gets it's signal from the negative side of the coil There are other issues too, like the neutral safety switch and the main breaker neither of which show up on the drawing at all.
|
|
|
|
|
KENO
Grand Poobah
Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10831 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March-10-2022 at 6:54am |
|
Here it is rotated and blown up some with the "broken" area circled in Red  |
|
|
|
|
Post Reply
|
|
Tweet
|
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Topic Options
jimships wrote: