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PCM 351w Pro Tech EMS Conundrum

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Ostler917 View Drop Down
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    Posted: April-06-2022 at 1:54pm
Hello all, new member here. While I do not own a CC, this forum has provided a ton of very helpful information for my PCM engine in my 93 Ski Brendella Super Comp, so thanks in advance. 

Background: I have the 351 W left hand rotation direct drive engine. I have worked on plenty of Japanese engines, but American motors are new to me. I purchased the boat, and ran it all last season, ran fine, not a lot of issues, few starting hiccups here and there. So I take it in for service to have the shaft seal repacked, and the steering mechanism replaced. While it was in, they did a once over inspection on the engine. Turns out the previous owner cheaped out on the pro tech EMS retro conversion and they installed an automotive holley carb, and an automotive distributor with an automotive starter. YIKES. Glad we didnt blow up last season. 

The service center recommended the full retro kit that is upwards of $800, plus a marine 4160 holley carb, and a marine starter (no questions on the starter, will replace asap). After browsing this forum for a few days, and reading a handful of threads about that swap, I was starting to think I might not need the full conversion kit since mine has already essentially had the protech ECM system deleted (just very poorly done). I have seen a few people post about the D.U.I marine distributors, and also have heard a few people talk about the Quick Fuel Holley 600cfm carb which is a bit cheaper than the standard holley 4160 600cfm. 

Long story short, does anyone have any strong recommendations or advice on if I should just go with what the service center said, and do the full engine harness replacement with electronic distributor retro kit etc. Or would it be a better option to go with something like a D.U.I. set up and potentially a quick fuel holley carb? I found a few instances of people saying the mallory electronic distributer is garbage and that they fail often. 

EDIT: Primarily use the boat for cruising in lake washington, and some skiing. Really just looking to get it running smoothly and SAFE. Not looking for any crazy performance etc. 
Thanks in advance. 
1992 Ski Brendella Super Comp
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Jonny Quest View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-06-2022 at 3:20pm
The non-marine components can be a bit troubling from the safety standpoint.  Does the automotive distributor have a vacuum advance?  Post a couple of pics so we can get a good look at the hack-job conversion.

Now I've been accused that I like to spend YOUR money.  That's correct.  As a general rule, I like to use high quality parts and I'm not a stickler about keeping things "original".  So, I recommend the D.U.I. distributor and the QuickFuel carb option.  I'll even put my money where my keyboard is...That is what I did to my 1994 PCM ProTec engine when the fancy electronics crapped-out.  I took it a step further and added an Edelbrock Performer RPM intake manifold.  When the dust settled, that engine was a very strong runner.  Now since I didn't buy the boat brand new, I can't prove that the performance of the engine with the fancy new components was stronger than the factory-fresh engine with ProTec, but the engine was a beast.  It feels every bit as strong as my GT40.  Just my 2¢

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ostler917 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-06-2022 at 3:45pm
Alright hopefully this works, having a hard time figuring out the images. Here are a handful. 

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Ostler917 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ostler917 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-06-2022 at 6:39pm
Alright, after a good long Convo with Jonny Quest, and the service center that found all this hack job stuff, I've opted to grab a new quick fuel Holley carb which comes with a new fuel line and spark arrestor. Also got A new marine starter, and a D.U.I. distributer. I'll definitely post an update once I get it up and running again, and will feel so much better not running a bunch of automotive parts on this boat. Cheers to not exploding on the water.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-06-2022 at 7:27pm
No pictures of the starter? Kinda wondering how they determined it was an automotive starter.

Maybe a label or part number or something?

It looks like you have some belt alignment issues too Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-06-2022 at 9:01pm
The fuel pump clear safety hose has been "hacked" and doesn't run up to the carb, but rather down into the bilge.  That might be the biggest fire risk problem in the engine compartment.  Also, it also appears that the previous owner ran out of red plug wires and went with a smaller diameter yellow wire.  Can't be having that.  The red wires will get jealous and start cross-firing.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-06-2022 at 9:32pm
For reference, this is what my QuickFuel & D.U.I. project looked like when completed:
And for those of you with sharp eyes, the braided  stainless steel fuel line did not carry the USCG stamp of approval.  




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-07-2022 at 6:34am
Originally posted by Jonny Quest Jonny Quest wrote:

For reference, this is what my QuickFuel & D.U.I. project looked like when completed:
And for those of you with sharp eyes, the braided  stainless steel fuel line did not carry the USCG stamp of approval.  





Some might notice that it's an M650 in your picture Wink and some might wonder if he (Ostler 917) bought an M600 or 650 and what kit he bought with the flame arrestor and fuel line

Maybe a kit from Jeg's?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fl Inboards Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-07-2022 at 8:55am
BOOOM!!! then screaming and fire! then Boom again...!!!! swimming Burned and maybe unconscious so not able to swim!!!

GET THE AUTOMOTIVE PARTS OFF AN ENCLOSED ENGINE!!!

RANT OVER!
Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-07-2022 at 9:56am
KENO

Well spotted.  I swapped out the M-600 (4160) for the M-650 (4150). I like the “double pumper” design and mechanical secondaries of the 4150 / M-650.  I would have saved a few buck$ had I just gone with the M-650 to start…but I like tinkering and re-thinkering.  It sometimes gets me in trouble.  

Can’t remember if the K&N spark arrestor / filter came from Summit or Jegs.  No kit back then—just figured what parts to buy to build my own. 

I’ll take my lumps for the non-USGG fuel line.  I don’t doubt that the stainless steel braided fuel line would have passed the UL or ASTM test standards, but I’ll never know for sure.  Would I do it again?  Damn right I would.  

BUT DON’T YOU PEOPLE DO IT!  ALWAYS USE APPROVED MARINE PARTS!  (I feel better now)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-07-2022 at 10:28am
But the question is "what did Ostler917 buy" for  carburetor, fuel line and flame arrestor?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ostler917 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-07-2022 at 10:39am
I opted for the quick fuel 600cfm which was purchased as a kit on jegs after reading a handful of people's experiences with them. I also snagged a DUI dizzy as well. Fuel lines will be marine.

Few other answers to questions I saw in the thread:
As far as the clear line from the fuel pump, previous owner just tied that off at the end, what a guy.

Will definitely check the belt issues, hadn't noticed that rubber dust build up till it was mentioned here.

As far as alternator, unsure how they determined it was automotive. It may have just been that it was going bad, but the shop mentioned it as a top priority with the other automotive parts for replacement. I was going to replace it either way as it looks pretty old and beat and we've had some starter issues in the past. Obviously I now know a thousand other reasons that it was likely having issues, but this should keep me going steady for some time now.

Thanks for everyone's input!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ostler917 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-07-2022 at 10:53am
Originally posted by Fl Inboards Fl Inboards wrote:

BOOOM!!! then screaming and fire! then Boom again...!!!! swimming Burned and maybe unconscious so not able to swim!!!

GET THE AUTOMOTIVE PARTS OFF AN ENCLOSED ENGINE!!!

RANT OVER!


Not sure if you're referring to my photos? But yes that is the whole point of the post here is getting all these automotive parts off this boat that I was unaware of. Happy we didn't blow up using this set up all last season. The ignorance was truly bliss lol!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-07-2022 at 11:57am
If the Jeg's kit is the one in the link below, 793-M-600QFTK, I think you'll find that the fuel line/filter works good on a Chevy with the distributor in the rear and the fuel pump on the opposite side from your 351 .

On your 351, it'll end up in a funny spot in real close quarters with the distributor and thermostat housing and may or may not work, and  you'll still need line from the pump to the filter inlet.


The flame arrestor in the kit will still need the hose adapters like JQ shows in his pictures too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ostler917 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-07-2022 at 12:00pm
Thank you Keno! I'll get on that. Is there a better spark arrestor that is just plug and play with this motor?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-07-2022 at 12:21pm
The one you have now will probably clear the float adjustment screws on the Quick Fuel since it clears the screws on the Holley. It might take a little minor dimpling with a hammer......maybe

Keep it, clean it up and get one of the hose adapters from K&N like in JO's picture for the fuel pump ruptured diaphragm overflow line.

Or here's a link to something on EBAY that has the right fittings (actually one extra that could get taken off or left as is). 

You'd have to see what you have for clearance to see if the height will work

Barbron made lots of the flame arrestors for inboard engines over the years


The fuel pump line dumps fuel inside the arrestor instead of outside like the K&N little adapter. Most every arrestor with that fuel pump line dumps inside the arrestor, there must be a reason for that Wink

Not high on JQ's list but a Sierra 81-8115 fuel line works for lots of people and it's USCG approved or make your own with USCG A1-15 or A1-10 hose and use the banjo fitting you have now on the Holley carburetor and the reuse the fitting on the fuel pump Barbed fittings and hose clamps are just fine per USCG regulations.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-07-2022 at 6:15pm
Originally posted by Ostler917 Ostler917 wrote:


As far as alternator, unsure how they determined it was automotive. It may have just been that it was going bad, but the shop mentioned it as a top priority with the other automotive parts for replacement. I was going to replace it either way as it looks pretty old and beat and we've had some starter issues in the past. Obviously I now know a thousand other reasons that it was likely having issues, but this should keep me going steady for some time now.

Thanks for everyone's input!!

If you're replacing the alternator and starter whether they're marine or not.....................ask here about a manufacturer and part number for each before ordering.............it might make life easier.

BTW..........if you get picture's of.the sticker on top of the alternator and the back where the wires hook up, that will make it pretty easy to tell whether it's marine and come up with a replacementWink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ostler917 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-08-2022 at 6:40pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:





The one you have now will probably clear the float adjustment screws on the Quick Fuel since it clears the screws on the Holley. It might take a little minor dimpling with a hammer......maybe


Keep it, clean it up and get one of the hose adapters from K&N like in JO's picture for the fuel pump ruptured diaphragm overflow line.

Or here's a link to something on EBAY that has the right fittings (actually one extra that could get taken off or left as is). 

You'd have to see what you have for clearance to see if the height will work

Barbron made lots of the flame arrestors for inboard engines over the years


The fuel pump line dumps fuel inside the arrestor instead of outside like the K&N little adapter. Most every arrestor with that fuel pump line dumps inside the arrestor, there must be a reason for that Wink

Not high on JQ's list but a Sierra 81-8115 fuel line works for lots of people and it's USCG approved 






Unfortunately the arrestor on there now is just disintegrating, so I'll go with a new one. I might return the one I already ordered or just buy some of those bolt on fittings. Super annoying it doesn't come with them. Thanks for all the links and tips though, greatly appreciated.
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