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White smoke, burping coolant reservoir = ..... |
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Ginovv 
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Joined: November-08-2020 Location: Belgium,Lanaken Status: Offline Points: 30 |
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 Topic: White smoke, burping coolant reservoir = .....Posted: June-09-2022 at 3:49pm |
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Hi there everyone
My name is Gino a Dutch guy from Belgium. My dad owns a 94 Barefoot Nautique V-drive Ford 351w 5.8L since 1994 and we're not giving up on her. Did a lot of repairs/maintenance in 2021 and this spring; rebuild carburetor, new sparkplugs, new starter, new impeller...just to name some. Now we're skiing and mostly slalom and barefoot which need high rpm and I started to notice the temp gauge going up when going over 3500 rpm. Also some white smoke out of the exhaust and a sweet smell coming from the bilge. It was running hotter than normal ( And as soon as I opened the cap hot coolant fluid sprayed out... Which was strange since I already topped up. The white smoke + the coolant system under pressure let me think of one thing: head gasket... After rebuidling the carburetor the engine is running better than ever according to my dad. It also makes a lot of RPM, around 4600-4700 rpm... But today we went upstream on the Maas (river) and I clocked 63 km/h (39,14 mph). Maybe nothing to do with it, but wanted to share it with you. Have to say that I did 3-4 barefoot runs at probably 4300-4400 rpm. Today was the first time I went this far while pulling my brother who is a little heavier haha. It never went over The boat has a raw water system so the exhausts are cooled by the raw water system. Am I right here? - Is this a job that I can do while the engine is still inside the boat? - Could it be something else? thermostat not opening wide enough? Doesn't explain the white smoke though... - if head gasket leaking; GT40 upgrade? let me know if you need more info Thanks Gino van Vroonhoven http://youtu.be/T8aP0Km6-6w = white smoke at WOT http://youtu.be/lAVcaW5eZV4 = close up engine. whistling sound and when coming back from higher rpm you can clearly see the smoke coming from the exhaust gasket. Edit: put youtube links in
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MrMcD
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Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3750 |
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Posted: June-10-2022 at 12:49am |
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Gino, I think you are on the right track looking at the head gasket. Since you have a closed system cooling the engine you can get a kit from the auto parts store and test for hydrocarbons in the coolant. If they are there the head gasket has failed.
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KENO
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Posted: June-10-2022 at 7:37am |
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Since you have a closed cooling half system (closed system for the engine, with raw water cooling the heat exchanger and manifolds) and you ran the engine at some pretty high temperatures (you mention not going over 120 degrees, that's 248 degrees to us Americans), your cap probably lifted at it's relief pressure and burped hot antifreeze into the bilge
On a closed cooling system, when you open the cap hot coolant will come out if there is any pressure, just like a car with a radiator cap. You had pressure and it made the water come out
And since the raw water that goes through the exhaust manifolds has to remove the heat in the heat exchanger before getting to the manifolds, there's a chance that your exhaust white smoke was really hot water/steam from the hotter than normal raw water that had to remove excess engine heat in the heat exchanger As far as whether you did some damage like a head gasket, you can do the test kit mentioned by MrMcD, you can do a compression test, leakdown test, pull the spark plugs looking for a real clean plug steam cleaned plug etc. I'd probably start with the easy stuff and pull the plugs just to get an idea of what they look like after your problems As a guess, I'd figure you have issues on the raw water side, so you weren't effectively cooling the closed system, and just to be optimistic here, you didn't screw up a head gasket, just had a hot engine that had some extra pressure in the closed system because of the higher than normal temperature. Think positive at least for now  |
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nobrainsd
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Joined: August-13-2015 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 157 |
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Posted: June-10-2022 at 2:00pm |
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Definitely some good possibilities already discussed. But you might want to inspect your heat exchanger. That is the interface between raw water and the sealed coolant side of the cooling system. You can open one end of the unit and visually inspect the tubes. I haven't really seen any deposits on the block side because I run anti freeze. The raw water side does get deposits, particularly if you don't replace the anode regularly (found screwed into the side of the exchanger body) and definitely if you run regularly in salt water. Sounds like your cooling system works, but is inefficient and that's why it gets hot under load. Most older Nautique owners don't have a half closed cooling system and it is easy to overlook this issue. Unless the corrosion is severe it is possible to rod out the raw water tubes. I flush my cooling system with Salt Away after every salt water run and replace my anode regularly and no longer see much of any deposition in the raw water tubes. Best of luck in finding your issue :)
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Ginovv
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Joined: November-08-2020 Location: Belgium,Lanaken Status: Offline Points: 30 |
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Posted: June-11-2022 at 9:25am |
Thank you for these tips! Normally I am this positive, but lately nothing but bad luck. When i'm talking about 120 degrees I mean Fahrenheit, the gauge is US. It only went above 120 when I didn't had enough fluid inside after I changed the starter, the heat exchanger had to be removed. After I topped up and let the air go out, we didn;'t had any problems overheating while idling. Only when pushing it over 3500 rpm's. But according to my dad, the boat always did this.... I got a hold of this so-called hydrocarbon tester, we call smoke gas tester haha.. keepin' it simple over here. We're going to check tomorrow evening. things i'm going to check; (please tell me if I can check other things) 1a. is there smoke inside coolant fluid (hydrocarbonate tester) 1b. check sparkplugs for clean plugs 2. is the oil contaminated (milky, mayonaise like) 3. if above is negative; remove end cap from heat exchanger? I definitly know that we didn't change the anode and we do drive every year 3-4 weeks in the ocean in Croatia. we always flush afterwards and drive it again at home in fresh water. but still, could be the problem... Could you guys give me a better explanation on what to look at when i'm opening this end-cap? Thanks again, still hoping for the best. Gino
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nobrainsd
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Posted: June-11-2022 at 1:29pm |
 Hard to find a really good picture of the PCM heat exchanger, but the attached diagram covers the basic design. You won't tend to get much in the way of deposits in the closed side of the heat exchanger unless it was added on and the engine had scale or debris inside already. If your water and anti freeze look good it is probably not a problem. Can be checked by removing and testing for good flow if necessary.If you remove the end cap on the exchanger you will see a plate with a bunch of holes where the tubes are. Raw water goes through these. Yes, they can get clogged or restricted by deposits, particularly if you run in salt water. Flushing helps avoid that a lot. Regularly replacing the anode (which on a PCM exchanger is screwed into the body) is a big deal if you run in salt. I replace mine regularly. They don't last that long. The diagram doesn't show the end cap, but I bet you can see it right off on the exchanger. Mine has one bolt center threaded. Be sure to check the gasket! It is recommended to replace the gasket, but I don't if the rubber isn't stiff, deformed or cracked. If you aren't getting a good seal it may not leak much , but you can draw air into the system same as at any other connection in the overall cooling system. Really like my half closed cooling system, but still change my manifolds and risers every 3 years regardless of how they look. Salt water is insidious! I am able to check my exchanger in place by draining down the closed coolant low enough to not pour out. Had to remove it to loosen up a stuck anode and got some flow from the residual raw water/salt away mix that doesn't drain out the exhaust. But it wasn't a big deal. If the raw water tubes are really bad you will see a reduced discharge from the exhaust, but it would have to be very bad and your issue doesn't sound that bad. Still think a close inspection of all hose clamps, hoses for cracks, clogged strainer and properly functioning thermostat are in order. If you do need to clean out the raw water tubes be sure to use a rod that is softer than the copper tubes so they don't get damaged. Or take it to a radiator service and have them clean it.
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KENO
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Posted: June-11-2022 at 7:38pm |
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If you got to 120 degrees F, and it usually runs a lot less than that, I'd get my hands on an Infra red gun and see what you have for temperatures on the engine, checking places like the thermostat housing, the circulating water pump on the engine(not the raw water pump) and see what you have for temperatures because it sounds like your gauge/sender is reading way too low.
It still sounds like you filled the coolant side, maybe a little too full, things heated up and it lifted the cap because of the pressure buildup due to the temperature increase. As far as the increase in temperature that your father said always has happened above 3500 rpm, is this an engine that came from PCM with the half closed cooling system installed or something that was added and might not be sized big enough for the cooling required by the engine. Dad should know the answer to that question. I'd do the easy stuff mentioned earlier, some by me and some by nobrainsd, make sure the system isn't overfilled and verify what the temps are with an I/R gun before jumping into the heat exchanger since your current temperature indications are all wacked out.
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Ginovv
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Posted: June-13-2022 at 3:12pm |
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Hi guys
First of all, I was mistaken with the amount of degrees. I thought that if the needle would be pointing north, it would be 120F but it's 180F. I edited my first post. @keno I asked my dad and the intercooler/heat exchanger was added later on by a dealer in The Netherlands. He actually wanted a teal colered BFN, but took the purple on because he didn't want to wait another 6 months haha. Good news, we checked with a hydrocarbonate tester and it was negative. The oil also looked normal, I do have to fill it a little bit. Afterwards we went for a testrun and my friend Bob was lying on his back to check for any leaks and a weird sound that happened around 3000-3200 rpm. Almost a whistling sound, I noticed this the last time as well. He found out that the gasket of the exhaust manifold is blown/leaking and produces some smoke. When around 3000-3200 rpm it's starts to produce fumes and the whistling starts. We checked everything with a infrared temperature laser and all was good. The temp was even lower than the gauge on the dash, probably because of the temp sensor being somewhere else inside the block. But all the hoses from the raw water were around 113F and the coolant around 130F. The temp gauge on dash confirmed the latter. So  no blown head gasket!But I still have some white smoke from 3500rpm to max 4600-4700ish but it was way less than last time.... so I dont know why it was less now. The temp also goes a little up when I stop after going WOT. But i guess that's normal? Also the sweet smell probably came from me opening the coolant fluid cap previous times and I couldn't clean all the coolant away. So it was probably somewhere in a corner, slowly burning up and causing the sweet smell. And the smoke that i saw in the bilge came from the leaking exhaust manifold.... All comes together now... I want to buy a new thermostat, should I go for another 130F thermostat or 150F? I saw topics on facebook from people who said that a 150F or 65C would be better in same cases... Maybe it isn't fully opening causing it to warm up... and in return warming up the raw water? I still think it's strange, because for water to evaporate it has to be over 212F or 100C isn't it? And the temp gauge doesn't go further than 183F max. I'm also not going any faster than 63km/h which is about 39.5 mph, although at 4300 rpm I am already there but increeasing another 3-400rpm doesn't change the speed. But this might be nothing to do with it  Thanks guys for all the help, atleast I can rest assure and ski with my dad and friends.
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KENO
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Posted: June-13-2022 at 8:34pm |
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Could that white smoke have a touch of a bluish color like you're burning a little oil?
I don't know where those FB people buy their thermostats but what is commonly sold for a closed cooling engine is about a 170 degree thermostat Not really knowing anything about your closed cooling system, I'd get a 170 or at least a 160 After your high speed running and stopping, the temp going up some and eventually recovering and coming back down is normal since the raw water flow through your heat exchanger drops way down and the big hunk of iron engine is still giving off a lot of heat. Your lack of speed increase with the last few hundred RPM would be due to a combination of things like hull drag/efficiency and prop efficiency. It's a pretty normal thing. Your speed should be a little higher though like 45 ish, but that may be prop related
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Ginovv
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Posted: June-16-2022 at 4:36pm |
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@ keno
I couldn't say it has bluish color in it. But its hard to tell. When we went last sunday, the smoke was way less than before. Maybe the piston rings opening were lined up? In my first post I added 2 youtube video's, one of the white smoke. I'm asking around for a new coolant cap, but no one has it. It's suppose to open at 14PSI. I don't know if it's working properly. I'm also ordering a new 170 F T-stat, that's what I also found in the service manual for our engine. About the top speed, we're running a 13 x 16 RH prop. Is that standard for our BFN?
I know it is for a Ski Nautique. |
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KENO
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Posted: June-16-2022 at 8:30pm |
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Depending on atmospheric conditions you can see the exhaust vapor better on some days than others.
A lot easier on a cool, low humidity day to see the exhaust. The Excel/BFN seemed to have either a 1.21 to 1 or a 1.46 to one reduction ratio in the v drive and prop size would be dependent on that. !6 inch pitch would be for a 1 21 ratio, so check your tag on the v drive. Here's a link to a recent thread with some info, but the poster had a 1.46 ratio so his prop would be higher pitched . It's got good info on prop clearance to the rudder which is an issue with that hull All I see in the videos is an exhaust manifold gasket that's leaking |
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Ginovv
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Posted: June-21-2022 at 3:23pm |
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@keno and Nobrainsd
Thanks for all of your help. I'm learning more and more about this boat. I had to put the engine tag under a microscope to see the numbers PRP WR-R10PT So i would say it's a 1:1 direct drive transmission, but the V-drive does the reduction then? I couldn't see anything on the tag of the V-drive, it was painted over and I sanded it alittle bit, but couldn't really see something. I'm going to go back on Thursday to see if I can sand it with higher P. This was the number on top of the V-drive.  I know our prop is damaged and the strut bearing has some play aswell, that might be the cause of reduced top speed? Thanks again.
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KENO
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Posted: June-21-2022 at 6:50pm |
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P Pleasurecraft engine
R Reverse rotation P 351HO W Borg Warner transmission R it's got a reverse gear too, so you can back the boat up Next R Right hand prop rotation 10 it's a 1 to 1 ratio in the transmission P Power plus usually tells you that it's got a reduction in shaft speed from engine speed. You don't know exactly what it is in your case but probably 1.21 to 1. Like you said, your V drive is doing the reduction T it started life as a Pro Tec equipped engine and maybe it still is.
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KENO wrote: