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1988 trans question
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lonestar View Drop Down
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    Posted: June-11-2023 at 6:42pm
Hi everyone, have an 88 model 2001 with 750 hours on it . Today the boat is running great and after about an hour on the water I return to the dock and have no reverse . Forward is fine , normal . But if I got into reverse there’s nothing. I removed the cable and moved the control arm by hand and still nothing at all . There’s no noise or anything bad sounding whatsoever at all when I shift it . I change the fluid each season and i probably have 4 hours on this fluid in the trans . Of course this is a Hail Mary post in hopes that is not the worst case scenario. One of the things I was wondering is will a trans “go” without and prior indication ? I work on this boat diligently and I notice any little discrepancies so if something was slipping or knocking or banging I’d have noticed.
Any ideas or information is greatly appreciated.
lonestar
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KENO View Drop Down
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Points: 11127 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-11-2023 at 8:08pm
What you're describing is what happens when a reverse clutch plate breaks/separates like in the picture below. Look at the Red circle.


Everything is fine in forward and nothing is fine at all in reverse Wink  it's just like being in neutral.

Depending on how mechanically inclined you're feeling, it's not too bad of a job.

You have to remove the transmission and take the front off and you'll find the broken plate.

You have choices.........you can replace the plate,

You can also replace the 11 or 12 springs you'll find that are associated with the reverse clutches (some have 11 some have 12)

You can also replace the forward clutches which gets more involved 

You can send it to a shop for a rebuild  At 750 hours with good care it shouldn't need a complete rebuild but if you send it off you might as well get it done.

You should at least think about replacing the damper plate on the flywheel that transmits the power from the engine to the transmission.

Here's a link to a thread about damper plates and a pretty good write up on transmission removal Wink


If you look in the reference section you'll find a Borg warner transmission manual or 2  that'll help you figure out if you want to do it yourself.

Searching here on CCF will find lots of discussion on transmissions and also help you decide if you're doing it yourself

And ..............no matter how good you maintain it, that plate is the weak point in a B/W transmission and it just decides that it's time has come so don't blame yourself 
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lonestar View Drop Down
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Points: 290 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lonestar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-12-2023 at 8:34am
Thanks very much for all of that great information, I really appreciate the advice. It definitely looks above my pay grade unfortunately.
Does loss of reverse mean losing forward gear is Imminent? Or are the two separate? When I read about it it I can interpret it either way .
lonestar
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KENO View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
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Points: 11127 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-12-2023 at 8:41am
Originally posted by lonestar lonestar wrote:


Does loss of reverse mean losing forward gear is Imminent? Or are the two separate? When I read about it it I can interpret it either way .

Loss of forward gear is not imminent at all, at least not because your reverse plate broke.

They're separate and the plate has no effect on the forward function.

People have been known to drive their boat with no reverse for a while, but it's not much fun and not the safest thing to do either.
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Wilhelm Hertzog View Drop Down
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Hey, that's my broken reverse clutch plate from two years ago!

I rebuilt the entire transmission at the time. Quite a learning experience for someone like me who went into it with zero prior experience of such things. But definitely manageable if you're careful and systematic about it.
1982 Ski Nautique PCM351W RR II Velvet Drive 10-17-003 1:1 II PerfectPass Stargazer
Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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lonestar View Drop Down
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Thanks Willam ,
Was the removal a big challenge ?
lonestar
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Wilhelm Hertzog View Drop Down
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Originally posted by lonestar lonestar wrote:

Thanks Willam ,
Was the removal a big challenge ?


No, not too bad. If you search the forum you'll find good instructions - Ken recently reposted them in a thread I can't lay my finger on (or link to - posting from my phone again) right now.
1982 Ski Nautique PCM351W RR II Velvet Drive 10-17-003 1:1 II PerfectPass Stargazer
Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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KENO View Drop Down
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The link was earlier in this thread, but here's a copy and paste of the instructions

Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Here's a set of instructions for ya 

Remove the motor box and the rear floor piece

Disconnect the battery

Remove the starter

Remove the wires from the Neutral Safety Switch

Disconnect the shift and throttle cables

Unbolt the coupling and slide the shaft back as far as it will go

Unhook the water hoses from the transmission cooler, leave the oil lines hooked up and unbolt the cooler bracket from the bellhousing. The cooler will stay with the transmission.

Loosen the pinch bolts on the front motor mounts so the engine can pivot on the mounts. Make sure the bolt is loose and not still tight when the nut is backed off.

Leave the rear mounts hooked to the transmission and remove the mounting fasteners from the stringer/cradle. It's a little heavier this way but it's easier to wrestle the transmission around with the mounts on it.

Unhook the exhaust hoses wherever it's the easiest for you..Depending on the hoses it might be easier for you to remove them as the engine is being raised

Raise the rear of the engine with a bottle jack under an exhaust manifold or use a hoist or whatever other lifting means you have till the engine is about level and block it so it can't fall and ruin your day.

Unbolt the transmission from the bellhousing. You probably have 2 bolts and 4 studs holding it on. Slide it backwards till it;s off the studs and set it on a piece of plywood where the rear floor panel was. To me it's easier this way than taking the bellhousing off at the same time

Now unbolt and remove the bellhousing, don't forget the little bolts holding the splash shield to the bellhousing

Unbolt the old damper

Bolt the new one on

Some people will tell you to tighten the bolts now, some will work thru the starter hole with a crow's foot, u joints etc to tighten them after the transmission is installed and some drill a hole in the bellhousing to tighten the bolts after the transmission is installed. It's your call here on what you want to do.

Grease up the female splines

Bolt the bellhousing and splash shield back on. Some people bolt the bellhousing to the transmission and install the whole thing at once but it's a whole lot easier to wrestle the 125 or so pounds into place when you can slide the transmission on the 4 studs to get the shaft into the splines.

Slide the transmission into place (sounds so easy but you may have to rotate the shaft some to get the splines lined up along with a little lifting. That's why sliding it on the 4 studs is easier. And if you don't have studs, then do what Duane mentioned in the previous post.

From here you're just reassembling in reverse order and if you have corrugated exhaust hoses it's easiest to hook them up again as the engine is being lowered.

And..........don't forget to check the alignment or somebody named Pete will be all over you 

I figure somebody will come along and tell you how they did this or that different but this works pretty smoothly with the least amount of wrestling involved..
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lonestar View Drop Down
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Wow Ken , thank you very much .
lonestar
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lonestar View Drop Down
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I kinda think if I follow this step
By step I might actually be able to do it .
lonestar
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KENO View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
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Points: 11127 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-16-2023 at 8:01am
Originally posted by lonestar lonestar wrote:

I kinda think if I follow this step
By step I might actually be able to do it .

I think you can too Wink

The hardest part is lifting the transmission out of the boat.

Sliding it back into place and lining up the splines isn't a lot of fun either, but some wiggling and/or slight rotation of the output shaft on the transmission helps.

Here's a video from Skiboatpartsonline dealing with removal in the link below


You can continue on to Part 2 which is the installation.

The rotation and wiggle is around the 11 minute mark of Part 2

You'll notice he did some things differently, and it's a Mastercraft getting it's Borg Warner replaced with another brand, but then again we're all a little different.

Mostly all reruns on TV now, it's a good way to kill 40 or so minutes Wink
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