302 to 351 in 65 Mustang |
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mackwrench
Senior Member Joined: February-25-2005 Location: Gone Status: Offline Points: 190 |
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Posted: March-10-2007 at 10:45am |
The 302 had a aluminum timing cover that did not use the engine water pump, will this cover fit the 351? if not will the engine cover close over the water pump pully/belt aranagement?
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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the covers are interchangable as well as the exhaust manifolds and that's really all that is between the 302 and 351W blocks.
Not sure but I thought the motor covers on the SN's where a little larger than the ones on the mustang's You will have to swap the pumps and route the coolant lines the same way it was on the AL one without the circ pump. |
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mackwrench
Senior Member Joined: February-25-2005 Location: Gone Status: Offline Points: 190 |
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Thanks, I knew the plumbing would be like the 302, I hope to get this project going, I lost the engine/trans to this boat during hurricane Dennis back in july 05, and just now getting around to making this happen.The 351 is a complete take out from a donor Chris Craft and is reverse rotation to boot! It has the exaust, carb, starter etc... But I want to use the non-pump type cover and plumbing.
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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I would suggest that you sit your motor box over top of the motor to make sure it clears width wise. Not sure on the height the 351 has a taller deck but you may only have to get a short arrestor to get the clearance you need but the main issue is the width.
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mackwrench
Senior Member Joined: February-25-2005 Location: Gone Status: Offline Points: 190 |
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Thanks, Chris I'll measure it all up, the engine cover has some type of insulation sprayed into it, top clearance seems OK, as the cover sits on a 2" wood frame when closed it did though rub on the exaust risers on the 302, which were center mounted, perhaps I can remove some of the insulation or change to a rear discharge manifod.
Anyrate, It's great to get back on this project! And back here on this site! I'll keep you cats posted, Todd |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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that's not good if it was all ready rubbing you might be in trouble.
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mackwrench
Senior Member Joined: February-25-2005 Location: Gone Status: Offline Points: 190 |
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Maybe, it only was rubbing on the exhaust risers, the were Barr type with bigger center risers, I was thinking about something like this,
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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those would help if it where the pyrmid style center riser manifolds and it was rubbing on the top area of the riser.
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Online Points: 21186 |
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Heads are interchangable too- just a different bolt size. Boat Dr said he didnt think he could squeeze a 351 under the cover of his Mustang. I assumed it was a width issue. It will be interesting to see if you can make it work. |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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good point Tim forgot about the heads, with the logs he might squeek by. That's why it's better to check it out now before it's in the boat, No OH sh*t that way.
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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You could also make a new motor box,there seems to several variations on a Mustang.Look at the motor box in my picture,it's the original and is made of wood.It seems taller than the fiberglass ones,so that it clears the Holman Moody exhaust manifolds.If you want me to measure it,let me know.
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
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I wouldn't be too keen on using the non-circulation pump setup on the new motor. I had to convert my motor over to a circulation type setup to be able to run a thermostat and keep both exhaust logs cool enough under extended loads. All modern inboard marinizations that i know of utilized both a rwp and circ pump and have for 40 years.. why go back?
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7954 |
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I've gpt a friend that has a 66 Wildcat. He repowered it from the 210 hp Chrysler to a 351. He ended up having the motor box widened by a fiberglass guy. The guy did a great job. You'd never know it was touched. Don't know what it cost him.
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boat dr
Grand Poobah Joined: June-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4245 |
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mackwrench,351 was too wide to fit under the stock hood.The PCM exhaust rub slightly now,351 is 2 or maybe 3 inches wider,also taller.I have a good long block 302, 775 hrs.
It is taking up needed space in my shop,built a new motor for mine,yes it's rev. rotation.I have an American Skier,1964. I want to go back to the old stle RWP set up,without a engine mounted circulating pump.The orig.H/M was set up that way,it will save a few pounds to boot. I think you are going to open up a can of worms with the351 swap,have no opinion on the raw water only set up ,you may have cooling issues there...........boat dr |
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mackwrench
Senior Member Joined: February-25-2005 Location: Gone Status: Offline Points: 190 |
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Thanks Boat Rx, But I'll pass on the 302, I already have the 351, and it;s a complete set up, (read above, I lost everything to salt water during a hurricane)
The 302 only rubbed the insulation at the TOP to the "prymiard" style risers, The boat has a factory fiberglass engine cover & I am not going to go with a homemade plywood type. If is does not fit due to height, I'll raise it by remakeing the wood frame its on a little higher, if it has to be wider, I'll have it cut in 1/2 and added to, reglassed and painted to match like Riley described above. I am going to use the cooling set up w/o the engine pump just as it was with the 302, I never had a cooling issue with that set up, and I used a 160 themostat. I agree I may have to get a different exaust configureation. Thanks for all you guys input. And rest assured I am going to measure it twice and cut once! My next issue is are the thu-hull fittings for the exaust large enough? |
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mackwrench
Senior Member Joined: February-25-2005 Location: Gone Status: Offline Points: 190 |
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Joe in NY.... You still have this cover?
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
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Mine was a bit different interceptor cover, it didnt have the triangular shaped embossment and three holes (perhaps a inspection hole to check the timing chain?) It was a nice cover but I scrapped it out of ignorance when I updated to the circulation type setup. I know lots of the early 289s without circ pumps have run for 40 years now, but for me everything became a lot easier once i got a circ pump involved.
-Joe. |
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mackwrench
Senior Member Joined: February-25-2005 Location: Gone Status: Offline Points: 190 |
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The triangular Hole was where a tachometer drive bolted, the tach was cable driven. I have now a electric tach & made a plate from aluminum to cover it as it leaked a little oil out of the drive with no cable on.
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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So your saying that my cover which is plywood,is homemade where as yours which is glass is factory?
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mackwrench
Senior Member Joined: February-25-2005 Location: Gone Status: Offline Points: 190 |
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Gary, I have no idea if your engine cover is homemade or factory, but I am sure the glass one on mine is....and I would rather try to use it. I am sure that one of the historian's here could tell us. I just stated that I was not going to build one at home! Anyrate, I have a ways before I get to that part of this project.
You have a great looking boat, I really like the exahust manifods, and the lack of a engine water pump, It seems there are a few here that have had some issues with that type of cooling set up though.... |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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I always thought my cover was original,the vents match the ones on the rest of the boat.If it's not,whoever made it did a great job.I don't blame you for wanting to use your cover.Thanks for the complement,other than it being a Correct Craft I didn't know what it was.I had no idea until finding this site that there were so many engine combinations.When I first got it running I had cooling problems,you could not idle the boat on startup or it would overheat,but you could if you drove off and warmed it up.Now after rebuilding the engine and the pump,the only original part of the pump is the housing,and using a 160 thermostat I have had no cooling trouble.My exhaust is 3" all the way to the stern if that helps.Good luck on your project.
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mackwrench
Senior Member Joined: February-25-2005 Location: Gone Status: Offline Points: 190 |
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Hey, Gary... I am a man of many projects, is there a story behind the car in your garage? The other boat in the driveway? Looks like more projects.....
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Mackwrench- Always something going on here,sometimes overwhelming.Son has one semester left in school,then things should return more or less to normal.The car in the garage is a 1959 MGA Coupe which followed me home years ago.Condition much like the boat on arrival.The boat in the background was the one in the story,1964 CC American Skier with a Graymarine 4cyl.Front bench seat,floor shift and a foot gas pedal.It had the same hull as my Mustang,but with a different deck.A buddy of mine was a highschool shop teacher and the boat was given to him,it had a bad valve seat.He used it for a year and then bought a 10 yr old nautique and let me use the old one and thats how I found my Mustang.
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