Manifold risers |
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68lemans
Senior Member Joined: January-31-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 105 |
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Posted: April-12-2007 at 10:33am |
I had water getting into my pistons and with everyones help from this site we came to the conclusion that it was the exhaust manifolds which are aluminum and I would like to fix if posable, so I took them off last night, went much easer than I thought it would. I have one problem though I cant get the risers apart from the manifolds. I got the nuts loose but I just cant get them apart. Is there some trick or has anyone had the same problem? I only had a little time to work on it so I have not tried to much but it is really stuck. Any ideas? |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Heat and a dead blow hammer
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3363 |
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If you put a piece of Al above the nuts and torque evenly, its like an built-in press. Preload then heat.
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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use a putty knife or a small screw driver and get the lock washers free first, then use the putty knife in between the two pieces and t should come apart.
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68lemans
Senior Member Joined: January-31-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 105 |
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Gottaski,
I did that going around and torquing them but it did not work but I did not heat it up. I will give these ideas a try when I get home from work. Thanks for your advice. B |
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bmiller
Senior Member Joined: June-05-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 234 |
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Throw them in the junk pile and buy new.It's not worth it.I tried fixing mine and it was more headache than anything else.There comes a time when you just have to piut the money on the line.Who said boats were cheap?
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21186 |
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I certainly wouldnt be so quick to toss a set of rare H/M aluminum manifolds. I say fix 'em. |
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68lemans
Senior Member Joined: January-31-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 105 |
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So I got the one off by using a little PB blaster and torquing the nuts evenly like an built-in press until they were all tight then I beat it with a block of wood and a hammer. I finally got some movement that way. The other side slid right off with no force or anything.
Now I have them apart and I don't really see anything that looks really bad actually I think they look pretty good except for where the gasket meets up with the manifold and the riser the surface on the riser is really rough and not in very good shape and on the bottom of both there are three small holes for the water and one is broke out and on both there is two types of bolts at the bottom one goes all the way through to the exhaust chamber and the other is a drain for the water. What is the purpose of the one that goes all the way through? One seems to have been taped out bigger than the other? Could it be leaking around one off these bolts? I think just getting the end of the risers milld so that they have a good surface and getting that one spot fixed and putting some new bolts in and new gaskets and I think that should solve my problem or am I thinking wrong? Can I still get gaskets for this style of manifolds/risers? I will try and get some pics this weekend..... Thanks |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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68, I think you are reffering to the same spot where my friend found his problem on the H/M's: the area around the drain. After you get them cleaned up, I feel you need to presure test them.
I agree with Tim, they are rare and are worth the effort to repair. |
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3363 |
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They should look very nice after a media blast, good luck
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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68lemans
Senior Member Joined: January-31-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 105 |
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I am not going to pitch these things!!! If I did I think there would be a lot of guys on this site that I could then call, "dumpster divers" :)
I just talked to a guy that is going to take a look at them on sunday and see what he thinks. |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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This is how I got my boat,the guy didn't know how to work on it and someone told him he needed new manifolds at $600.I ended up making my own gaskets and bead blasting them.Don't know why the different size holes,but mine are the same.You dont have much to lose by trying to fix them.
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68lemans
Senior Member Joined: January-31-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 105 |
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Gary S
So you could not find any gaskets I take it? Where did you get the materials for the gaskets? Was that all that was bad in your manifolds was the gaskets? Thanks B |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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68- In all honesty back when I put mine together it was late 80's early 90's.At the time I did not know if H&M were still around.It was easier just to make them.Many auto parts stores carry gasket material,but for this application, stay away from the stuff made out of cork.I used the material that looks like cardboard. Holman Moody can be reached at 704-583-2888.The old part number for these gaskets are C4HM-9450-MB1.It might be worth a call to see if they have them. Actually nothing was wrong with mine,I took them apart to clean them up and check them, and someone was facinated with black(they had black seats and motorbox cover also,talk about hot) and had painted them and they were peeling.
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68lemans
Senior Member Joined: January-31-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 105 |
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So yesterday I plugged the inlet and stood the manifold up and down with no riser on it and filled it up the outside chamber with water and looked down the inside exhaust chamber for any leeks. 7" from the back of the manifold on the top there is about a two inch crack in the exact same spot on both manifolds. I have not taken it to my metal guy yet but what do you guys think are they shot or can they be fixed? It was not a good sight to see that water trickling out of the side, you can not see the crack but you can see the water coming out.....
So what is the diagnosis???? B |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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68, The repair is not easy but can be done. The outside wall will need to be cut open so the wall between the cooling and exhaust can be welded. Then the hole cut in the ouside patched and welded. The danger is until you get the hole cut in the outside you don't know the condition of the inside wall. Take them to your welder and see what he has to say. It sure sounds like these were frozen at one time because of not draining them. Considering how rare thy are they may be still worth repairing.
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68lemans
Senior Member Joined: January-31-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 105 |
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That is what I figured... That was the only way that I figured they could be patched!
Thanks, I will let you know what he says. B |
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68lemans
Senior Member Joined: January-31-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 105 |
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Well, bad news, on friday we cut the exhaust manifolds open, we cut a patch out about 4x5" and you could not see how far the crack went it just kept going so we decided that it was not worth repairing so I am in the market for new/used ones.
So does anyone want some cut up h/m manifolds? I do have the h/m risers that to my knowledge are still in good shape so start the bidding....... Does anyone have any suggestions on new ones? am a little tight on cash right now so the cheeper the better.... does anyone have any used ones around. Help me out... Thanks. :) B |
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68lemans
Senior Member Joined: January-31-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 105 |
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So I got all new PCM manifolds and risers and hose and new mounting hardware. It is going to be here today so I am going to be putting them on tonight is there anything special I need to know? I don't think there is but I figure it never hurts to ask. Put some gaskets in and bolt them up and GO.
Thanks B |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Bolt torques? Did you get hose since you are changing the style of the manifold?
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68lemans
Senior Member Joined: January-31-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 105 |
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Yes I got some new hose which kind of sucks because I just put new exhaust hose on last year but they are goig to be to short now so I got new again, but what are going to do.... (bolt torques?) I got this kit:
"Includes manifold gasket, riser gasket, bolts, washers, elbow and pipe plug. PCM Complete engine set for both sides." |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Someone will know the proper torque for the bolts but then you need a torque wrench to measure it. I however would bet there are plenty of people who never torque them to specs.
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81nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5781 |
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I'll get you a torque setting tonight but in the meantime tighten them down, run the engine to temp and retighten after you shut it down.
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You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails
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68lemans
Senior Member Joined: January-31-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 105 |
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Sounds good I will see how it goes!
Thanks B |
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81nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5781 |
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PCM Manual says torque exhaust manifolds to 18-24
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You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails
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68lemans
Senior Member Joined: January-31-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 105 |
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Thanks for the torque specs!
The manifolds came in yesterday and I did a little nascar pit crew in the garage and got them on and went down to the river and it ran great, it has a lot more power it feels like at the top end! $700 and back on the river! Thanks |
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