Help separating coupler
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=10708
Printed Date: April-04-2025 at 3:45am
Topic: Help separating coupler
Posted By: JamesE
Subject: Help separating coupler
Date Posted: June-03-2008 at 8:28pm
| Hey everyone, I'm new here. I recently bought my first Correct Craft, a 1989 Martinique. Bear with me because this is also my first inboard. Well I am trying to do an alignment. I saw Eric's how to and I think I understand everything. But the problem is that I can't get the coupler to separate. I took out the 4 bolts and tried to pull back on the propeller and hammer around the coupler with a wood chisel. This did nothing, so I tried a few other methods. I soaked it in PB blaster then tried to use a wood block to hammer the propeller backwards and I sprayed the strut bushings with wd-40. I even tried to heat it up and use a come along to separate it. It has still not moved at all, it's like it's fused together. I have spent a few hours just trying to get this coupler to separate and am getting frustrated. The odd thing is the coupler doesn't even look rusted but I doubt that the previous owner ever aligned it which is why I am doing it now. Any other I ideas on how to get this to separate? I am ready to just put it in the water and throw it in reverse. Just kidding. Thanks in advance for the help. -James |
Replies:
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-03-2008 at 9:10pm
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James, I noticed you posted the same problem over on PN. We're always happy to see someone come over to CCfan. Welcome.
They can be stubborn to get apart. The old wood chisel because of it's sharp edge is the best bet and you may just need to hit it harder. I know our trans specialist Eric tries to get a putty knife in between the coupling halves first. If the wood chisel fails, then you need to get the cold chisel and a bigger hammer out! If you mushroom the face a little with the cold chisel, you can clean it up carefully with a flat file. It may not look rusty from the outside but it may be inside. There is also a pilot shoulder on the face that maintains concentricity that may be rather tight. Try the bigger hammer! This is a flange spreader used for pipe flanges. I don't feel it would fit between the flange and the trans but the idea could be used to make up something similar. 
Eric? comments? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: anthonylizardi
Date Posted: June-03-2008 at 11:21pm
| I used a pnewmatic chisel with a round tip and hit it in the area where the flange goes up. I used a slight angle to induce some rotation. It made a dent on the metal but at least the flange is fine. Even with a pnewmatic chisel it took a while. I try to put different lubricant in the strut bearing but the best thing was water. And to removed the couple the only that worked for me was using the socket in between with longer bolts. That was a lot of work. |
Posted By: JamesE
Date Posted: June-03-2008 at 11:59pm
|
Thanks for the suggestions. I managed to get the coupling to separate. I was able to get it apart by using a putty knife and also sharpening the chisel. I also hit it a little harder. However what I found was a little disheartening. The alignment was waaay off. The whole driveshaft was about 1/2" to the left of the engine and the coupling was a little crooked compared to the engine. I will try and get pictures tomorrow. I'm just glad that I found the problem now and didn't just bolt it back up because I couldn't get it separated. Upon further inspection it seems that what is causing this is a twisted strut. Luckily the shaft looks OK although it is hard to tell. Is the strut repairable or do I have to replace it? I think I may just be better off replacing it though because the cutlass bearing is oddly worn because of the way the shaft didn't go straight through. What is involved in taking off the strut? Do I have to pull the driveshaft? I wasn't sure if I should start another topic because these are different questions. I can do that if necessary. Thanks. -James
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Posted By: behindpropeller
Date Posted: June-04-2008 at 12:34am
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OR:
Loosen the mounts and drop the front of the engine until it pops loose. Anytime you hit that shaft that goes into the tranny you are wearing onthe bearings and may damage your shaft. Tim ------------- |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-04-2008 at 7:49am
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James, Glad you got it busted loose and didn't use a slide hammer!!
Here's 3 pages of a thread thats a good one to sit down and read. It started as a prop shaft removal but gets into shaft straightness and bent struts. Take a look at it and of coarse if you have any questions, make sure you ask. Some great pictures too. http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=10392&KW=strut - thread to read ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: stepper459
Date Posted: June-04-2008 at 12:54pm
| So is this a stupid question... Why do we not all put anti-seize or something similar between the coupling and the transmission when re-installing, so the next time you go to take them apart it's easier? Or do you think by the time the coupling comes off again there would be no trace of any lubricant left? Or maybe it's a fine idea going forward but any boat you have to deal with that has not had this done is still a PITA to separate the two? Or am I behind the curve and this is common practice? |
Posted By: behindpropeller
Date Posted: June-04-2008 at 12:57pm
I put never-seize on everything in the boat when it goes back together. Tim ------------- |
stepper459 wrote:Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-04-2008 at 2:10pm
|
[QUOTE=stepper459] So is this a stupid question... Why do we not all put anti-seize or something similar between the coupling QUOTE]
It's not a stupid question. I agree that it is a good practice. The factory doesn't do it because it costs more! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: June-04-2008 at 3:15pm
|
A stuck coupling is a good sign of correct alignment, unbolted one this morning and they automatically seperated cause of mis-alignment
(even though they dont come apart easy, still check the alignment on re-assembly) ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: JamesE
Date Posted: June-04-2008 at 8:56pm
| Thanks for everyone's feedback. That thread was very helpful. I just have a few questions. I haven't taken anything apart yet so I don't know if my shaft is bent or not. But if it is bent, on that thread it was recommended to get a new shaft and coupler from general. Where can I find more information about this company, like how to contact them? My other question is, what is the bolt and socket method to removing the coupler? I kept seeing it mentioned but didn't see any details about it. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-04-2008 at 9:15pm
James, Here's a sketch I made and posted awhile ago. Sorry I'm not a CAD type and had to do it the old fashion way with paper and pencil!!
One thing that's not on the sketch is you can use fully threaded bolts (or all-thread)with extra nuts so you don't need a bunch of different length bolts. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: June-04-2008 at 10:45pm
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use the search feature for the phone# ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: June-05-2008 at 1:18am
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James, My Mustang had a bent strut when I got it and since I didn't know any better and CCF wasn't around 20 yrs ago,I took it to a prop shop in the Fla Keys.Turned out as good as new.Seems that people hit bottom there alot,and the shop had plenty of experence. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: JamesE
Date Posted: June-05-2008 at 10:17pm
| Thanks for everyone's help. I am in the process of trying to press the shaft out of the coupler using the bolt and socket method. Unfortunately it's not going very well. I haven't given up yet though and I will keep everyone updated. |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: June-06-2008 at 2:42pm
|
Bolts-and-socket will only warp the flange. Good luck aligning it afterward.
You are close to only needing a sawzall to continue. ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: anthonylizardi
Date Posted: June-06-2008 at 2:54pm
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I try different ways and the bolt and socket was the only one that got things started. I finished with a bolt puller. I would like to hear other good ideas. For the next time.
If you use the socket method make sure you applie the same preassure to all 4 bolts. You can tell right way because it will bet harder to turn the shaft. Be patient, use plenty of WD40, and to get things moving ti takes a good preassure. At least mine was a PITA, I used an impact gun and set the preassure to the lowest setting. IMO, equal preassure was the key. |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: June-07-2008 at 10:36am
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If they are that tough you have to put even pressure on them and heat (being very careful) dont even try to pull them off if the set screws are snapped off, you have to drill them for relief, ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: JamesE
Date Posted: June-07-2008 at 12:39pm
| Thanks, I tried all the suggestions mentioned. It still hasn't moved at all. First I tried the bolt and socket method, it didn't budge even after I got the bolts so tight that I broke one of them. Then I started getting desperate so I unbolted the rear of the engine from the engine mounts and used a come along to lift the back of the engine so I would have more room to work. Then I was able to get this heavy duty timing gear puller on there. I cranked that down until I couldn't get it any tighter. This is after I soaked it PB Blaster. So I tried heating it and tapping it with a hammer and then I tried to tighten it some more. Nothing. So I have given up. I am assuming that if the boat took a hit hard enough to bend the prop and strut that the shaft is probably bent too. So I am just going to cut it out with a hacksaw. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-07-2008 at 1:05pm
|
James, Sorry to here that it's been a real problem. I've had problems too and in one case had to pull the engine to get the shaft out forward. Since you have the come a long, is the set up heavy enough to pull the engine? The hacksaw isn't going to be fun ether! If you do need to cut the shaft, at least go a borrow or rent a Sawsall. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: June-07-2008 at 10:17pm
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James - welcome to the stuck coupler club - I just went thru that myself.
I found out (thanks Boat Dr.) that stainless steel (shaft)has a higher expansion rate than carbon steel (coupler) so heating it only makes it tigher! ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: JamesE
Date Posted: June-12-2008 at 4:07pm
| Sorry it's taken me so long to reply. There was a big storm on Long Island and I lost my internet. I'm actually using a friends computer right now. I did manage to get the shaft out though. It was not fun. I started using a hacksaw and was getting nowhere fast. So I borrowed a friend's grinder and sawsall. I used the grinder most of the way and then used the sawsall to finish the cutting. Well I just dropped the parts off at the propeller shop and will hopefully have the boat back together soon. Well I guess the benefit of this whole ordeal was that it was a really good learning experience and I learned a lot about inboard boats. I have one more quick question though. When I took the strut off I noticed that there were cracks in the gelcoat as well as a few cracks inside the boat around the bolts. I really have no experience with fiberglassing. Should I just leave it or should I do some kind of repair to the cracks? |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-12-2008 at 4:18pm
|
well doesn't sound good but can you post some pictures of them so we can see how bad it is around the holes. Might not be something to worry about but with it being on both sides then that could be all of the way through and not just the gel cracking on the bottom and in that case something needs done.
sounds like PO might have hit something at one point and time. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: gigem75
Date Posted: June-12-2008 at 6:59pm
| after hitting a submerged tree I finally gave up and used a cutting torch, on stainless it is not so much melting as it is burning the metal away. Was then able to get the short shaft out of the coupling with a big press. Had the coupling faces trued up on a lathe after all the abuse it took. |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: June-13-2008 at 12:55am
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James - Your tracking right behind me. See my saga from a couple months ago:
http://correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=10289&KW=SNobsessed - Cracks ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: JamesE
Date Posted: June-14-2008 at 10:18pm
Some pictures of the damage:
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Posted By: JamesE
Date Posted: June-14-2008 at 10:24pm
| Thanks for the link SNObsessed. So I guess I should just try to grind down to bare fiberglass to see if the fiberglass is OK. I don't have a dremel tool but I have a small grinding bit that goes on a drill. Would that be OK to use to grind off the gel coat? After I get down to bare fiberglass hopefully everything will look OK. Then to fill the grooves I will use some Marine Tex. I will probably be able to do this tomorrow or on Monday. I will report back with my findings. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-14-2008 at 11:33pm
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James, Marine Tex is one of those "does it all" products. It may do it all but not very good at anything!! As a filler maybe but not in a structural fill. Billy Mays should be selling the stuff. Stick with a basic marine epoxy system like West or Mas. After exposing the damage, post some pictures. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: June-15-2008 at 1:33am
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James - I put down 3 overlapping layers of cloth on the inside of the hull, just to reinforce the area. If you have them precut, you can put them down with 1 mix, just saturate them 1 at a time. Boater's World had MAS epoxy onsale for $15 a while back. I was impressed with how easy MAS was to work with. Get the medium speed.
PS - Grind the area down to get thru the grey paint - also you should be pretty well down to the bottom of the cracks so your epoxy can penetrate into good substrate. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: JamesE
Date Posted: June-15-2008 at 7:42pm
Some pictures of the cracks on the inside after grinding off the paint:
What do you guys think? Should I now grind off the gel coat so I can see the other side of the fiberglass? I will do this if necessary but I am really hesitant to grind away the gel coat. The other problem is I don't have a tool small enough to only grind away a small amount of gel coat. I have the grinding stone I mentioned but that is between 1/4" and 1/2" wide. But I guess that would still work. Thanks for everyone's help. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-15-2008 at 10:15pm
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James. Don't worry about the outside of the hull. You need the exact same repair that Chris (SNobsessed) did. I'd see if you could borrow a small 4" right angle grinder (the ones you would use for grinding after welding) and put a 36 or even a24 grit disc in it. Grind off the inside bilge gray , use a small 1/8" dia. burr to route out the cracks and then lay in the epoxy and glass cloth. The size of this reinforcement should be about 4" beyond the bolt holes on all sides. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: JamesE
Date Posted: June-25-2008 at 12:17am
| Thanks. I finally got around to getting the fiberglass work done. I first started with just a layer of epoxy to fill the spaces where I routed. Then I laid in the cloth and epoxy. I used 2 layers of cloth with each layer consisting of 2 overlapping pieces of cloth. I then laid a piece of cloth and epoxy in the center over the holes to add a little extra strength right near the bolts. Is this enough layers? Tomorrow when it's cured I will get a picture of my novice fiberglass work so it can be critiqued. Overall though I think it came out very good for my first time. Oh and by the way, I used the West epoxy and I am so glad that I got the pumps because it made mixing so easy. I got everything back from the prop shop on Friday so I hope to start putting the boat back together after work tomorrow. Hopefully the boat will be on the water by this weekend. |
Posted By: JamesE
Date Posted: June-25-2008 at 11:45pm
| Sorry no pictures yet. But I did get the strut on today and the shaft is in without the coupler. The problem is that the shaft isn't centered in the shaft log. In fact it's very close to touching the fiberglass on the port side. I tried loosening the strut mounts and retightening them with pressure pushing the other way on the shaft which helped a little but not enough. I can with little effort though push the shaft into the middle of the shaft log although it tends to rest towards the side. Do I need to do something about this or is it good enough? Sorry about all the questions, I know nothing about these kinds of things. I need to get this boat on the water already it's killing me that I haven't taken it out yet. |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: June-26-2008 at 12:48am
|
James - It sounds like your repair was well done - appearance doesn't matter much back there (except to a proctologist maybe).
Long story short, I got a new stut from SkiDim & 1 of the holes was out of position by about 1/8 inch (so much for QC). So I fiberglassed up that hole in the hull & re-drilled to match. I had to shim the back of the stut about .020 inch with brass shim stock I got at Ace Hardware. I worked on it until the boundaries of shaft play were even from left-right & also up- down as compared to the hull 'log'. I figured that would give me the best center for alignment. I suggest getting it where you want it with a dry fit & then take it apart & add the 5200 sealant - that stuff is messy! Good luck with your project. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-26-2008 at 8:47am
James, Have you sealed (5200) the strut to the bottom of the boat yet? Sound like there is some twist to the strut. Slightly elongating the holes in the hull may be needed. I suggest pulling the strut back off (before you get the coupling on the shaft!) and lining it up now instead of creating problems later. Chris's reference to "boundaries" is well put: "I worked on it until the boundaries of shaft play were even from left-right & also up- down as compared to the hull 'log'. I figured that would give me the best center for alignment." ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: JamesE
Date Posted: June-26-2008 at 1:52pm
| Unfortunately I wasn't expecting this problem so I did already seal the strut. But I want to do this right so I am going to have to pull it back off and elongate the holes to try and get it straighter. Thanks for the help guys. Oh and note to self- don't get 5200 in your hair this time it is a real pain to get out. |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-26-2008 at 2:05pm
it's not hard to get out, you just might not have any hair left when your done. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-26-2008 at 2:14pm
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James, Depending on the humidity, and when you bolted up the strut, there still may be time to just pull it off. The 5200 is moisture cured and if the humidity is low, it will sometimes take 6 or 7 days to cure completely. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: JamesE
Date Posted: June-26-2008 at 2:35pm
| The 5200 is still tacky but it's already gotten to a point where it's holding it's shape so I am probably going to scrape it off and start over. What's the best way to seal the strut? Originally I ran a bead around the edge and then put some around the bolts before I installed them. Is this good? |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: June-26-2008 at 2:45pm
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James, if you were using the blue label scrape like you said and then the rest will come off with acetone. If it was the red, fast cure you'll really have no hair left!
On your seal, I like going around the bolt holes and then connecting the outside of the holes. The better your mating surfaces are, the less goop you'll need. I also put a dab in the bolt hole and twist it in with the bolt. Most everyone on this site knows how messy it is...the less you use, the less to clean up...within reason. Of course the seal is most improtant.  ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: anthonylizardi
Date Posted: June-26-2008 at 2:53pm
|
Out of curiosity,
When you use 5200, does that means it will be next to imposible to take it out if needed next time? Is it a permanent bond? I am about to install mine and I wonder if using 5200 is the way to go or some other pemanent sealer. Thanks, |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-26-2008 at 3:44pm
|
James, I would bed the whole base of the strut with the 5200 as well as around the bolts.
Anthony, No, you can get it off but may require hot wiring. If you're really concerned about it you can go the the 4200. It doesn't have as much adhesion as the 5200. I always recommend the 5200 just because I like the extra grip to the hull and worry about removal later. The hot wiring is real easy. About a 18" length of ni-chrome or stainless welding wire hooked up to a car battery. You need to make some wood handles for the end of the wire and then a spot to hook up jumper cables. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: anthonylizardi
Date Posted: June-26-2008 at 5:16pm
|
Thanks Pete,
Do you know what CC put on them originally? I guess I will use the 4200. These Texas lakes get low by summer ends and you never know. I have seen the hot wire used on foam wings for RC Airplane. Actually they see the cable already fab for this. Sounds like is the same proceudre. That's cool know, thanks again. |
Posted By: JamesE
Date Posted: July-07-2008 at 12:17am
The boat is finally back together and the vibration is gone! Wow looking at the post dates I have really taken a long time to get this repair done. Oh well at least it's together now. I ended up elongating holes and using some aluminum sheet metal to shim the strut so that the shaft was centered in the shaft log. I'm glad that I took the time to do that because it made the alignment a whole lot easier. I aligned the engine today and there is such a difference in how easy the prop is to spin. Now I can spin it with one finger and moderate force and before I needed two hands and some muscle to turn the prop. The funny thing is you would think that I learned my lesson the first time I got 5200 in my hair. But I guess I didn't and I was using the fast cure stuff so needless to say I now have a bald spot on the back of my head. On a side note I took the boat out for the first real run since I bought it and having previously owned a 4 cylinder sterndrive this thing is a rocket! I just want to say thanks for everyone's help there is no way I could have got this done without you guys. Here is a few pictures of the finished product:
|
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: July-07-2008 at 1:52am
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Nice looking repair job James.
I may be wrong here, but I think your supposed to have a total of four hose clamps on that piece of hose that connects the stuffing nut thing to the hull. Two on each end. I always thought it was just in case one of them happened to break you have a backup. I imagine water would come in pretty quick if one of them broke. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: JamesE
Date Posted: July-07-2008 at 2:34pm
| Thanks, I will try and see if I can fit 2 more hose clamps on there. I'm not sure that there's enough room though. When I took it off it only had 2 hose clamps. Maybe just some years had 4 clamps on the hose? |