just got a 2001! drain plug help
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Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=10818
Printed Date: September-29-2024 at 5:22pm
Topic: just got a 2001! drain plug help
Posted By: SN2001fan
Subject: just got a 2001! drain plug help
Date Posted: June-12-2008 at 12:59am
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hey guys, i have been reading this website a ton and it inspired to buy a 2001 and restore it. i have been wroking diligently and it's been prety fun but tonight disaster struck with the plugs for winterizing my boat. Specifically, the one above the starter motor at the base of the engine. I think the original owner tried to fix it poorly because it was sticking out. i pushed it with my finger tonight to see what deal was and to my chagrin the plug went into the engine. it must have just barely held long enough for me not to notice until now. there was very little resistance, it jsut plopped right in.
so i am stuck, what do i do now?? |
Replies:
Posted By: rholmes
Date Posted: June-12-2008 at 2:58am
| It probably fell into the oil pan. I would drop the oil pan and check for it to be in there. You are talking about a threaded plug and not a brass popper, right? |
Posted By: SN2001fan
Date Posted: June-12-2008 at 3:56am
| it's right above the starter motor and unless i am mistaken (it's a new boat to me) you use it to drain the water out when you winterize. Also, water came out when the makeshift plug fell in the motor. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-12-2008 at 9:15am
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Hopefully the water jacket drain plug didn't end up in the oil pan. If it did, then I'd say you have a major problem!!
We seem to have had issues with several drain plug problems lately. Try chasing the threads deeper and get a new brass plug. Be carefull when tapping that the tap doesn't bottom out on the blocks wall behind the hole. If it does, then the tap will need to be shortened by grinding the tip off. I have a feeling that it was the problem with another member trying to chase his threads. He ended up taking it to the dealer. Ouch!! If the hole/threads are real bad, then you may need to drill and tap to the next size (3/8) pipe plug. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: June-12-2008 at 11:32am
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Sticking out, then you pushed it in sounds a lot like a popped freeze plug, not a drainage plug. Whats the approximate diameter of this here plug? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-12-2008 at 11:39am
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what motor is it also, don't recall a drain above the starter on that side. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: SN2001fan
Date Posted: June-12-2008 at 12:14pm
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what was there seemed between 1/4" and 3/8", but it was the wrong size (hence the reason it slid right in when i touched it!).
if it's a freeze plug, what's the next step? I will take some pictures tonight. Also, thanks for all the quick help, this site is really great! |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-12-2008 at 1:13pm
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sn, A freeze plug will be about a 1&1/4" to 1&1/2" dia. cup that is pressed into the holes left in the casting from supporting the core when casting. From what you are describing, it sounds like a threaded drain plug (or what was left of it!) to me. We'll wait for some pictures. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: SN2001fan
Date Posted: June-12-2008 at 8:19pm
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https://download.yousendit.com/ECB8951263B0DD3F
there's a link to download a bunch of pics of the engine. There is one in particular, file name IMG_1553, that shows the hole where i pushed the plug in. The pic is upside down (i am not a photographer haha). It's directly above the starter motor and brass in color. There's water dripping out of it as we speak. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-12-2008 at 9:08pm
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sn, You're correct about your photographic skills!! Just kidding but the picture is really hard to see what's going on. It almost looks like the PO drilled a freeze plug for a extra rear drain on the starboard side. Chris, Joe, can you see it better?
sn, See if you can get a closer picture. BTW, there is a thread on posting pictures. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: June-12-2008 at 9:13pm
That's what it looks like to me Pete. What does he do about the plug now that it's been pushed in? It will be a restriction but can it just stay in the water jacket? I think that's the first time we've seen that one. ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
8122pbrainard wrote:Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-12-2008 at 9:34pm
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Alan, If it was only a pipe plug, I don't feel he needs to worry too much. I think the water jacket in that area is quite large. If the freeze plug is pulled, it may be within reach with a wire fish. we'll know more if sn gets us another picture.
sn, worst case here is you will need to get a new freeze plug. (without a hole in it!!!) This isn't a big problem. We can help you out. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: SN2001fan
Date Posted: June-12-2008 at 11:58pm
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whew great news! Here are some more detailed pics.
http://download.yousendit.com/97DCAAAD679906E8 Here's the photo bucket try: 
|
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-13-2008 at 8:58am
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sn, This is a new one on me!! Guys, is that some kind of aftermaket freeze plug with a draining provision?? I can't even see any evidence of old threads in the hole!! That's not the normal block drain - it would be forward on the starboard side.
Here's what I would do. Using a flat punch and hammer, remove the complete copper plug. Tap it in on one side so it twists sideways and not straight into the block. You should then be able to grab it with a pair of vise grips and pry it out. Take the plug to a auto supply and ask them for a rubber expanding type freeze plug. Clean up the hole in the block and install the rubber plug. You could also just put a regular marine (brass) plug back in. They are driven in and can be tricky at times. There is also a tool that expands freeze plugs that is needed if the fit of the new plug is poor. The rubber would be simpler! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-13-2008 at 10:38am
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sn, Here's a nice instructional with pictures.
http://www.automedia.com/Replacing_a_Freeze_Plug/ccr20070401fp/1 - changing freeze plugs ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: June-13-2008 at 1:06pm
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I've never seen that either, maybe there never really were threads in it? ------------- |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-13-2008 at 1:20pm
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With the exception of the hex, it looks like a FTG by FPT copper sweat bush. I did a on line search and couldn't find anything. I also called my friend Chuck who is works for a mechanical contractor as a pipe fitter. He's also been around refrigeration all his life. He saw the picture this morning and he said it does look "vaguely familiar" and will be taking another look at it. Very interesting - I'm just curious as to what it is that the PO used to retrofit/backyard mechanic the "drain". ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: SN2001fan
Date Posted: June-13-2008 at 2:14pm
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Hey thanks for all the quick replies, this website is great. I probably couldn't own this boat otherwise!
Anyways, let me know what your friend finds out 8122brainard. I would like to hear before i try to hammer it out. Maybe i can get a replacement "plug" for the hole on the existing "drain". Plus knowing my luck i will hammer the whole thing into the water jacket if i try to get it out haha. ~Chris |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-13-2008 at 9:13pm
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sn, Here's my thoughts on what should be done. Whatever the copper fitting is that a PO put in needs to come out. Even if you were more confident with your mechanical skill and could re-tap (or get someone else) the small hole for a new pipe plug, I'm not recommending it. I don't feel the wall thickness of the mystery fitting is thick enough for a reliable pipe thread plus it being copper, it's relatively soft. I think you could handle changing it out to one of the rubber replacement freeze plugs. Go through the link I gave you on changing freeze plugs again and if you still don't feel you could handle it, get some help. Don't forget that CCfan is always here to help too.
I'll hear from my fried probably in the morning but I'm 100% sure he'll confirm my thoughts. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Lorenr
Date Posted: June-13-2008 at 10:20pm
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Freeze Plugs.
Looks as though the plug next to this one is rusted through as well. Probably need to replace them all. Not a big deal. Maybe go to an engine rebuild shop and get the kit. It's cheaper that way. After pulling the plugs be sure to flush the sediment out of the block and maybe your lost cap. ------------- Lorenr |
Posted By: SN2001fan
Date Posted: June-14-2008 at 2:39am
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ok so here's an update.
the plug that is in there is a commonly available freeze plug, minus a nut that screws onto a bolt that was once there. The concept is similair to the rubber plug in that as you tighten the nut, the plug expands with the exception that it is made of copper. I found a replacement copper plug that's the exact same style at checker auto, however, i opted for a rubber 1. I installed it no problem tonight. The bolt i pushed in originally was right there and i took it out. What's more, i finished all my other maintenance (new impeller, new fuel filter, new plugs, new hoses-all per threads on CCfan.com) and ran it ont he lake tonight! It started right away, so satisfying. Temp stayed good, pressure stayed good for the most part it was a pretty big victory! I opened it up, this boat hauls butt for sure. I only had one issue-i think my exhaust manifold might be leaking a tiny bit. a samll amoutn white smoke was coming out one side near the valve cover/exhaust manifold when the rpms were above say 2500 and i was goosing the throttle. It seemed to resolve itself, but i had to head in because it got dark and it was hard to pay attention with all the excitement of having my new boat on the lake for the first time. i will research the forums a bit and post a new topic if i get stuck. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-14-2008 at 2:57pm
sn, I'm not so sure about how common the plug is but I'm sure glad you found it. I certainly have never seen one before and it seems like our other members here hadn't ether. Well, you can learn something everyday but of coarse at my age it's getting to the point of remembering it that's the problem!! I did some searching and did find the expanding brass plugs but found that they were only used on early Dodge Hemi's!! Lorenr may have a very good point about the condition of the other plugs. I went back into your pictures and they don't look the greatest! You had better take a look. I wouldn't however go to the extent he is recommending as the easy way really requires pulling the engine. You can go get some more of the expanding brass ones! It may be that the Commander engine didn't use brass marine plugs! Must have been another bean counter trick! Do you know if that engine has ever been run in salt water? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Quigs85SN2001
Date Posted: June-15-2008 at 12:27pm
I was just changing the riser gaskets on my teams safety boat on Friday when I noticed the same type of freeze plug. It was even in the same position, above the starter. I believe they were designed for automotive applications where it can be very difficult or even impossible to replace a freeze plug without pulling the engine(no room to swing a hammer).
 ------------- Brian |
Posted By: SN2001fan
Date Posted: June-16-2008 at 1:06pm
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sorry, by a "common" freeze plug i meant i found it at the auto parts store i went to!
I also saw the other rusted plug made of steel and of course it is right behind the engine mount. I assumed when i saw it at first that the PO was the cheap one who put a steal plug in, not the manufacturer. So far, I have been really impressed with the way the boat was built after taking it all apart. my manual says the SN was "built to the glory of God" and i believe them haha. I don't know if the boat has ever been run in sea water. I never considered it because i live in MN, no ocean for miles! Anything's possible though... Is there anything special i should do if it has been run in sea water?? again THANK YOU for the help! i will post some pics once i am all done and make a diary entry. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-16-2008 at 1:39pm
If it ever did see salt wter, it's all flushed out by now! Have you given any thought to replacing any of the other plugs? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 85nautiquematt
Date Posted: July-03-2008 at 1:09am
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That plug is probably an aftermarket deal, if one fell into the block and it can't be taken out - happened to my Chevy truck when installing a block heater the mechanics say leave it in. If you notice on the Ford blocks the right side has the drain plug up front which is higher than the rear freeze plug. We blew one out with no damage on our good old 83 2001 and we installed the rubber plug type so it could be removed at the end of the season to prevent block damage as all the water doesn't drain on the right side. A safe bet and I'm sure most guys do it, add antifreeze after draining the water.
85 ------------- Nothin like the sound of a mid 80's Nautique at mid throttle. |