Water Logged Foam... What are my options?
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11847
Printed Date: November-17-2024 at 6:45am
Topic: Water Logged Foam... What are my options?
Posted By: Chris73SkiNauti
Subject: Water Logged Foam... What are my options?
Date Posted: September-04-2008 at 3:09pm
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Hello CCF!
I'm a new guy here, looking for some suggestions... I have a 73 Ski Nautique that has started listing to the right. It seems like it's holding water on the outboard side of the right stringer. I've looked for drains or any other way to get the water out, and it appears that side of the boat is sealed off. After reading through the "Pumpkin Patch" thread, it seems that it's a foam-filled chamber that's supposed to stay sealed to keep water out? Well... If that's the case, and then water does get in there, what are my options for getting it out? I don't relish the prospect of going through the pumpkin patch to pull everything out and replace it. Is there any other way? Thanks in advance! Chris ------------- Chris Bain 1973 Ski Nautique - the Retro Rocket! |
Replies:
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-04-2008 at 3:20pm
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Chris,
First the good news: you found a great site with plenty of knowledgeable people that can help. Welcome! Now for the bad news:! I don't know of any way to get the water out without removing the floor and foam. People have reported wet foam in boats after years of sitting in dry storage. I'm glad you read the thread. It's a long one and gives you a idea of what really needs to be done to the boat. It really isn't that bad of a job. Just time and some money but that's what owning a boat is all about!! Get us some pictures! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Chris73SkiNauti
Date Posted: September-04-2008 at 4:17pm
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Thanks for the warm welcome! Bummer you didn't have a better prognosis... :-(
So... knowing that there's water in there, do you see harm in finishing out the season here (prolly only a few weekend trips to the houseboat left at the most) with the boat before tearing into it? I wouldn't think a couple more trips would be a problem if it's been like this for a couple years now... Will dig up a pic and post it... Thanks again! ------------- Chris Bain 1973 Ski Nautique - the Retro Rocket! |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: September-04-2008 at 4:32pm
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Welcome aboard! No worries...use it till you take the plunge. It may have been in there longer than you'd guess. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: The Dude
Date Posted: September-04-2008 at 4:40pm
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only difficulty would be if you've got a rotting floor. Since you haven't mentioned anything like that, you're safe to go. Enjoy and welcome to the site! ------------- Mullet Free since 93 http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=717&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995 - 95 Sport |
Posted By: Chris73SkiNauti
Date Posted: September-04-2008 at 4:52pm
Here is a pic of the boat... 
Thanks for the advice on running it... I guess I'd better get ready for some work or find some cash to pay someone else to do it! :-P Chris ------------- Chris Bain 1973 Ski Nautique - the Retro Rocket! |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: September-04-2008 at 4:52pm
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if it's rotted it's rotted and a couple weeks/monthes won't make a bit of difference, Just check out the stringers and cross your fingers they are fine and all you need to do is replace the foam and floor and call it a day, but things are never that easy in these old boats. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: Chris73SkiNauti
Date Posted: September-04-2008 at 5:08pm
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What's a good test for the stringers? They are covered in glass as well, everything feels firm when I knock on it with a screwdriver handle, but I'm afraid to whack it too hard before the end of the season... :-)
Best to let it go until I'm ready to open the can of worms? Chris Edit: I heard from a guy at a marine shop that you can use acetone to get the water out - has anyone heard of this or tried it? ------------- Chris Bain 1973 Ski Nautique - the Retro Rocket! |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: September-04-2008 at 5:30pm
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If you indeed have water logged foam, you will have stringer damage...or if you don't, you'll be in a very small group. The testing thing has been a recent topic. I'll say 1 more time that when I cut mine out I found problems that drilling holes or tightening lags would not have found. TRB's idea of cutting the glass off of 1 side for inspection is interesting, but may be hard to do w/o causing more damage.
I'm not sure how to put this as I'm not an engineer...Mine were partially rotted though they looked pretty good except for the bug tunnels. They're still solid enough to cut out any 2' section of either one and take out a would be crook. They were weak enough to start vertical cracking in the gel. <--This was in the aft and the tunnels were in the front. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: September-04-2008 at 5:56pm
Actually, it was surprisingly easy with an angle grinder. I used this technique on my Tique. Naturally, the floor and foam were already out at this point. Best to keep using as is and start preparing for an overhaul after the season is over. Once the floor and foam are out, you'll have a better idea of how far the damage extends. ------------- |
BuffaloBFN wrote:Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: September-04-2008 at 6:01pm
What did you find? ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: September-04-2008 at 6:14pm
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Use a diamond wheel on that angle grinder, cuts like butter and doesnt wear down best 16 bucks I spent on the project... ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: 75 stang
Date Posted: September-04-2008 at 7:07pm
I use acetone to melt the foam out of fiberglass molds. I can only guess that the recomendation was to remove the wet foam with the acetone and get rid of the water that way. Not a big help if the stringers are weak though. |
Posted By: Sam B
Date Posted: September-04-2008 at 7:29pm
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Chris,
Nice boat!! My 73 had wet foam and bad stringers. The project was alot of work but well worth it. You will also notice that the wet foam is heavy. So by removing it the boats performance will increase. I had a 30 gal. trash container when I first filled it with wet smelly foam I could't lift it. Very Heavy. There was about 8 of these containers full total. Also when you remove your foam make sure you remove it all even the stuf way upfront. A 6" drywall trowel worked great for me. I could cut the foam using the trowel into sections then use the trowel to pop out the sections. Try to remove your stringers in one piece if posible to use as templates. ------------- Loud pipes save lives!! 2011 Green Lake Reunion Best of Show. %20http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3391&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1973&yrend=1973" rel="nofollow - Sam's 73 |
Posted By: Sam B
Date Posted: September-04-2008 at 7:31pm
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I would also like to see more pictures of your boat. samb.1@att.net
------------- Loud pipes save lives!! 2011 Green Lake Reunion Best of Show. %20http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3391&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1973&yrend=1973" rel="nofollow - Sam's 73 |
Posted By: Chris73SkiNauti
Date Posted: September-04-2008 at 8:34pm
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I'll have it out on the lake this weekend - I'll snap some more pics of it and post them for you all :-)
Sounds like I'm in for a good time over the winter! Chris ------------- Chris Bain 1973 Ski Nautique - the Retro Rocket! |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: September-04-2008 at 8:40pm
I found no more rot than I had already discovered- the only bad spots were at the tops of the stringers, under the gas tank, and below the front wooden floor section. The rest was perfect, so it was almost a shame having removed that glass- but I sleep well knowing that it went back together without a bit of rot. ------------- |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: September-04-2008 at 11:16pm
It took me 250 man hours to replace the floor and re engineer the interior. I had soaked foam, but no rot on my stringers. I was lucky. I think I dodged a bullet by only having like 200 hours on the boat when I bought it in like 01. Otherwise, had my boat had more hours on it, I bet I would have needed to replace all the stringers. ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: kevin719
Date Posted: September-06-2008 at 8:48pm
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horkn do you have any interior pics you can post or email me?? I would like to to see what you did with your seats.Thanks Kevin ------------- kevinindy |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: September-07-2008 at 1:20am
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kevin,
Here is a shot mostly of my navigator, Farley, but you can see a little of what I did. 
The rear seat was completely new, replicated in new wood, foam and tri color vinyl. The wood was all fiberglass resined to ensure waterproofness. The floor was a crazy job, all ply now, resined to keep it good for genererations to come. But the real engineering feat was getting rid of the bench style seat with no back on the passenger side for a spotter's seat. I hated that idea, so we tried to replicate the newer type nautique's bench, with my own spin on it. I used a captains seat from a Mariah that was new, so I saw no need to recover it, and the passenger corner wraparound bench was nearly the biggest single feat on the redesign of the bait. 2 normal sized people (usually a couple) can fit there. I know I have film pictures of the redo, before, during and after the restomod, but not on my digital camera right now. ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-07-2008 at 10:14am
Kevin, Tom bringing up his use of polyester resin (mentioned in other posts) prompted me to urge you to use epoxy resin. I have mentioned it many times and just want to again. Polyester is hygroscopic and is one of the major factors in why the wood stringer systems fail. Epoxy isn't so it acts a moisture barrier. It's also the reason epoxy is used as a barrier coat for hull blistering repair which is caused by moisture intrusion into the polyester hull. When doing a stringer job, it's even important to get the epoxy on the bottom of the new wood where it touches the old polyester hull. Using polyester will not seal the wood and in fact will trap it accelerating the rot. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: September-07-2008 at 10:58am
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Expanding a bit on what Pete said, I found epoxy to be much easier to work with!
Thanks Pete!  ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: kevin719
Date Posted: September-07-2008 at 11:54am
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I have been using the epoxy resin on all of my wood and it is very easy to work with!horkn that is what I wanted to do was put a newer style passenger seat and have been trying to find someone that has done it.Please if you find the pics send them to my email.kevin719@comcast.net And buffalobfn I will post some floor pics soon it is looking alot like yours now and I am much happier than when I just had the ply down! Thanks again.Kevin ------------- kevinindy |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: September-07-2008 at 11:58am
Just curious guys, what is easier about the epoxy over poly resin? ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: September-07-2008 at 12:32pm
I thought it was easier to mix accurately, and it can be used almost to the cure point. That's small batch logic I guess because I've seen a chopper gun in action, but I was fixing 1 boat. It's not near as hard on the nose and brain cells either! FWIW I wouldn't use it w/o the pumps. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-07-2008 at 1:31pm
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Alan, I find that using the metering pumps with the epoxy is more precise than guessing how many drops of catalyst needs to go into a batch of polyester. I've inadvertently made some real HOT mixes of poly!!!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: September-07-2008 at 1:42pm
Yes, much more predictable.
Fire!!! LOL ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: September-08-2008 at 2:19am
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I can say that in the 6 or 7 years since I have done the job, that there is no sign of rot in any of the wood.
Poly or epoxy I have no clue as to what I really used. My guess is that it was poly. I do know that it worked quite well. Kevin, I will get a picture of that front seat to you. I will find my 35mm pics and scan it at work this week. ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-08-2008 at 8:03am
Tom the true test of coarse will be time. I'm sure you did a better job than the factory did so it may last longer than the original did. Did you use any screws putting in the new floor and stringers?
Did you have metering pumps used for rather large quantities of both the resin and hardener or was the hardener just drops of catalyst? The drops would have been polyester. To my knowledge, all boat manufacturers made the switch to epoxy resins starting more that 10 years ago. How about some pictures for us too? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: September-08-2008 at 9:25pm
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I used coated deck screws and then I completely covered them in resin. No metal was left exposed unless it was SS or aluminum.
They were drops, so yes, I must have used polyester. Yes, I really need to load some pics up. Too bad this summer was shot with my home buying experience. I still have yet to get up to the cottage and get the timing on the boat right. I hope to get up there in 3 weeks. I kinda made it my vow to get it running as it should before I put it away so that it is 100% ready to roll next spring. This may be the first summer I have not waterskied in like 27 years if I don't get it rolling pretty soon. ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: kevin719
Date Posted: September-08-2008 at 10:06pm
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I worked in the body shop field years ago and I remember the poly resin to be much more runny and no thickening agent for it back then,I am not sure if they even have it now! I used the west thickening agent in all of my batches so far and it works really well! I put back together many f600 front ends back then I can second that the poly is not as adhesive! ------------- kevinindy |
Posted By: Chris73SkiNauti
Date Posted: September-11-2008 at 4:59pm
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Hi All-
Back from the lake with pics of my boat. I also noticed that water is starting to seep out of the foam area, which makes me thing the leak is coming from the outside instead of the inside (since it's below waterline while sitting there). If there is a chip in the gel coat under water, will that let water into the hull? It's possible the outer layers of fiberglass are exposed to the water in a couple small spots - I have to check it out again... Thanks. Chris 
 ------------- Chris Bain 1973 Ski Nautique - the Retro Rocket! |
Posted By: tleed
Date Posted: September-19-2008 at 7:50pm
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Uh, my "interior" leak turned out to be a disconnected exhaust hose. It leaked like that slowly 3 years before it finally let loose completely and I finally figured out what was causing it. With so much water at the end it stayed hot, which is how I finally figured out what was wrong.
Another symptom that finally fit was when I ran it on dry land, I noticed it took a lot longer for the driver's side exhaust to expel water, which is because it had to first fill up the interior underfloor chamber before it exited the tailpipe. Thomas ------------- Thomas 1974 Southwind 18 with 318 cubic inches of reverse rotation roller cam "Moparvation" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: September-22-2008 at 10:07am
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just to add to the comments, i cut up a boat Friday and the last time it was tagged was 1995, i hit a spot on the transom and about a gallon of water poured out, the top was solid but once i got near the gimble it was wet, probably that way for years. keeping these and all boats dry as possible is key to the longevity of the boat, inside storage, pull the plug everytime out, leave off the cover on sunny days etc.. ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 74SkiNautique
Date Posted: September-22-2008 at 10:29am
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My boat, even after a full day on the lake, there is not enough water in the bilge to pump out. We always pull the plug, so by the time we get home, no water is in the bilge. Keep it dry as possible. ------------- 74SkiNautique |
Posted By: tleed
Date Posted: September-23-2008 at 12:41am
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Hah, hah, 74SkiNautique, that's a real laugher. I'm not making fun of you, but that's the way I've treated my boat the last 3 years. Mostly. Bilge coming into the dock, pull the plug out of the water, no water in the bottom by the time I get 25 miles home.
However... I haven't had inside storage and I've never had a cover over the boat. But I doubt that's the real problem. These boats are designed to keep water out of the chambers on the outboard side of the stringers. They have a layer of fiberglass under the floor that attaches to the side walls and top of the stringers. It's supposed to channel water that comes in and passes through the plywood floor to the bilge where it can be pumped out. However, over time, leaks develop and water makes its way into the outboard chambers below the floor. There, it is absorbed by the flotation foam, which, again over time, becomes porous and acts more like a sponge. Once the foam "sponge" becomes waterlogged, it holds the water forever. The chamber now works in reverse of the design. Since there was no good way for the water to get in, there's no good way for the water to get out. There aren't any drain holes through the stringers to channel water back into the bilge. Any holes in the stringers become avenues for rot to develop. I'm spelling this all out for a couple of reasons. One is to second the notion that it's impossible to be too careful about storing the boat and keeping water out. Another is to nuke the idea that keeping large amounts of water out will forever forestall rot, because the real problem is that once water gets in, it NEVER gets out. Of course, I'm sure frequently adding more water to the stored water can't be helpful. Comment anybody? ------------- Thomas 1974 Southwind 18 with 318 cubic inches of reverse rotation roller cam "Moparvation" |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-23-2008 at 8:04am
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Thomas,
Your statement is what really happens in the real world! It's the reason I'm pro no foam and providing drains from all the stringer cavities to the center bilge when doing a re stringer job. You're correct that even with the best of care, water will eventually get in there. Chris (74), If your boat has never been re stringered, I'd say on a 74 you have water. Pulling it over a scale to check the weight against the original specs would be interesting. Chris (73), Great looking boat! What coating did you put on the swim platform and how long ago? Is it sticking to the teak? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Chris73SkiNauti
Date Posted: October-01-2008 at 5:52pm
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The guy I bought the boat from did the platform - stripped it, stained it, coated with marine spar varnish. It was immaculate when I bought the boat 5 years ago. The edges are wearing and so it's time to refinish it again. That can be another part of this winter's fun!
As far as the foam under the floor goes - that's mainly for flotation, but doubles as floor support, right? If I rebuild the floor, can I put the foam up under the gunnels instead to get the flotation? I like the idea of allowing water to get out of places it shouldn't be... :-) ------------- Chris Bain 1973 Ski Nautique - the Retro Rocket! |
Posted By: Sam B
Date Posted: October-04-2008 at 12:38am
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I took my wetfoam out and im not looking back. Foam under your gunnels is a good idea. ------------- Loud pipes save lives!! 2011 Green Lake Reunion Best of Show. %20http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3391&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1973&yrend=1973" rel="nofollow - Sam's 73 |
Posted By: Chris73SkiNauti
Date Posted: October-06-2008 at 4:42pm
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Thanks for the advice, Sam!
BTW, nice job on your boat - where did you get those speedo faces? Are they Airguide or something else? ------------- Chris Bain 1973 Ski Nautique - the Retro Rocket! |
Posted By: Sam B
Date Posted: October-06-2008 at 10:25pm
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Chris,
I bought them from Freelance Lettering in Indianapolis. Andy the owner is a SN nut. Yes they are Airguide. Sam ------------- Loud pipes save lives!! 2011 Green Lake Reunion Best of Show. %20http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3391&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1973&yrend=1973" rel="nofollow - Sam's 73 |