Carburetor Choice ? for my 1972 Correct C
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Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Discription: Anything Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1213
Printed Date: December-04-2024 at 2:59pm
Topic: Carburetor Choice ? for my 1972 Correct C
Posted By: Bhedbloom
Subject: Carburetor Choice ? for my 1972 Correct C
Date Posted: February-14-2005 at 4:24pm
Hello Fellow Correct Crafters,
I have a 1972 Correct Craft with a 302 Hollman/Moody Engine. Everything is stock except the carburetor. It is a Holley 4 barrell, and it drinks gas.
I have used vacume secondary carbs on my trucks in the past in order to save fuel, but have not heard of anyone doing that on a boat.
Does anyone have experience with vacume secondary carbs on boats or other means by which I can lower the fuel consumption of my 302?
Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Barry
South Carolina
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Replies:
Posted By: captan1
Date Posted: February-15-2005 at 2:50am
First don't fill up at the marina. My 78 351 came with a 4160 vacuum secondary Holley and that thing will kick in the secondary so it's not a given fuel saver.
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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=452&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1978&yrend=1978 - 1978 Ski Nautique
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Posted By: 64 Skier
Date Posted: February-15-2005 at 5:48am
I've run both the Holley and the Edelbrock with vacum secondaries. The Edelbrock took a long time to set-up, but does have lower fuel consumption. However, without a 12 Deg wedge plate I couldn't tune the Edelbrock where the Holley worked just fine.
I spent a lot of time with both carburetors and basically went back to step one...bought a vacum gauge. Without knowing the vacum at idle and under load at higher rpm's I was lost and neither Holley or Edelbrock Tech Rep's could help until I told them the vacum readings. In my opinion, the step metering rod concept behind the Edelbrock/Carter/Weber design is a better mid range fuel consumption carb.
Your H&M engine may have a cam which has lower engine vacum and can cause a lot of grief for a new carb which could be your case now. Before you order that new carb, check vacum at idle and 2500 rpm and call into Edelbrock or Holley.
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64 Skier
66" HO VTX and 67" HO Triumph
http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1071&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1971&yrend=1975 - 71CC
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Posted By: Robinsonx2
Date Posted: February-15-2005 at 9:45pm
I've dealt with 4 barrel carbs and if your carb needles are not adjusted to just above a lean mix, they will waste a lot of fuel.
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1949 Correct Craft Utility Runabout Special
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Posted By: Tim D
Date Posted: February-16-2005 at 3:05pm
What about the jets. They might not be the stock size.
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Tim D
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Posted By: reidp
Date Posted: February-23-2005 at 12:51pm
Barry,
That H-M engine came with a vacuum secondary carb. It was only a 450-480 (I've seen both published) CFM carb. I've got two of these which both operate well and aren't that bad on fuel. "I'm" bad on fuel however. So if the carb's been replaced with something larger and with mech secondaries, then you're most likely using excess fuel. That marine carb new over the counter is typically $450+ and is somewhat more expensive than the 600 CFM used on 351's.??? But you should be able to find a rebuilt one somewhere. I can get you the part number off mine unless someone has it more readily available. Holley's O.E. replacement number is HOL-0-80364.
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ReidP
/diaries/details.asp?ID=231&yrstart=1971&yrend=1975 - 1973 Mustang
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Posted By: Jim_In_Houston
Date Posted: February-24-2005 at 12:07pm
The power required to turn your prop increases at the cube of the change in RPM. Because of this, running at 80% of "wide open" RPMs will reduce fuel consumption (gallons per hour) by 50%. Running at 50% of "wide open" RPMs will reduce fuel consumption by 88%. There are a few other variables but the principle here holds true.
The moral: throttle back a bit and save a lot of fuel.
Knowing this, how do I operate my boat? Wide open!!!!! Hello gas station....
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Happy owner of a '66 and a '68 Mustang
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Posted By: Lakeview
Date Posted: February-24-2005 at 1:45pm
Jet size will make all the difference in the world-it worked on my 85 Ski Nautique-call holley with thelist # of your carb model and they will tell you the factory Jet size,also check your pumps,good luck!
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Lakeview
1992 Barefoot Nautique
1967 Barracuda SS
1967 Chris Craft Cavalier
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Posted By: skyhawkflyer
Date Posted: February-24-2005 at 4:12pm
I have a Holley 4160 vacuum secondary on my 87 S/N. I just rebulit it putting in a Holley trick kit. I couldn't find the specs for the carburator so I called Holley. Holley's response was that the specs were determined by the boat manufacturer. I talked with Correct Craft at White Lake. They informed me how to set the floats and which power valve to use. Most come with a #25 power valve but the #65 works the best per C/C. The 25 kicks in too soon and bogs the engine due to too much fuel. Also while the front float is set level while the bowl is inverted, the rear float level is set somewhat lower, and that helps eliminate some rich conditions due to the angle of the carburator on the intake manifold. I haven't run the boat yet to see how it was, but per C/C those were the exact adjustments I saw when I disassembled the carburator. So I only confimed the settings and put it back together with new parts and the proper power valve. I'm hoping for good response out of the hole with my 540 prop, and my past fuel consumption has always been good. The marine list number for the 4160 is 80265 for a Ford 351. C/C may be able to direct you further. And just for all reading this post, the carb overhaul procedure and carb theory listed in the PCM manual under resources is terrible, very vague, and down right confusing (because it's genaric in nature). Holley.com has an online store that offers a overhaul book specifically for the marine carburators covering modifications and adjustments. I highly recommend getting a Holley book (I read mine cover to cover) as a new Holley runs about $600.00 for the marine version. Money well spent to learn about, adjust, and recognize problems with your carb. Hope this helps. TJ
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: February-24-2005 at 4:54pm
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Jim has proposed a wonderful answer. Mine consumes less fuel at 80% throttle. I can cruise all day @ 35 mph. If I cruise @ 45 mph. say, 95% throttle, my fuel econimy is greatly reduced. Also it is always wise to set your air mixture with a vacuum gauge.
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Posted By: 66polyhead
Date Posted: February-24-2005 at 4:57pm
Oops forgot to login.
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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=220&yrstart=1925&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - KY Wildcat
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Posted By: Bhedbloom
Date Posted: February-25-2005 at 10:56pm
Thanks for all the advice. It has been very helpfull and informative. I do believe I'll be able to cut back on fuel consumption this season.
Barry
South Carolina
70 Mustang
72 Southwind
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Barry, South Carolina
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: February-26-2005 at 2:00am
man some people are out there... 600 beans for a carb?????????????????????????????????? Well I guess If I needed a 850 or 1050 cfm racing carb OK
Most nautiques use 600 cfm's or less
which you can get for $400 tops new!!!!!!!
Now if your a big dog and know what you are doing and have a motor that need's to breath????????????? then you need a high end carb and a whole lot of other engine mod's to use it,
Otherwise sit on the porch and watch.
There's nothing better than a Nautique rip'n 60+ MPH on the moring glass.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: February-26-2005 at 2:29am
Your stock jet is most likely a #66
What's up with a #25 power valve kicking in before a #65
Hell maybe I'm just drunk but I thought a #25 would open with 2.5 inches of vacum (sorry about the speeling I've have a cold pop or two) and the #65 works at 6.5 inches of vacum
The more vacum (work with me on the speeling) the better the fuel eccomomy. So normal vacum is around 12-15 inches and as you open up the throttle the vacum (spelling is hell) decreases and the carb will see 6.5 inches of vacum before it see 2.5 inches
Hell just use a #25 power valve and you won't have to worry about fuel comsumption because the secondary's will never open, hell just get rid of the four barrel carb all together and replace it with a two barrel carb and you'll never notice the difference dumb ass
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Posted By: skyhawkflyer
Date Posted: February-26-2005 at 3:09pm
You think I'm out there?????????? You better check your pricing on Marine carburators. A new 4160 MARINE will run you 600.00 before you get it delivered to your doorstep.
So let us all know where your getting your new marine carburators for $400.00 tops Smarty. I'd like to see that. No "Street" junk please.
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Posted By: skyhawkflyer
Date Posted: February-26-2005 at 3:16pm
Actually, that figure was a little consevative. Discount Inboard Marine lists their 4160 for a Ford 302 for $621.00. Take a look for yourself. By the time you pay shipping and taxes your probably closer to $675.00.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: February-26-2005 at 11:47pm
HLY-0-80551 $369.95
Summitt racing 4160 marine carb 600 cfm square bore. Do the research dickhead.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: February-26-2005 at 11:56pm
or maybe you need a larger carb
HLY-0-9015-1 $379.95
750 cfm double pumper version still way under the conservitave $621 and hell shipping is free, your welcome dickhead
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Posted By: skyhawkflyer
Date Posted: February-27-2005 at 8:28pm
Hey, go buy yourself one you loser. Oh, and by the way your posts and join date give you away "70nautique". Your pretty dumb.
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Posted By: 64 Skier
Date Posted: February-28-2005 at 4:07am
Bhbedbloom,
I copied this off the Holley web site for you:
A stock engine, or one that is only mildly built for street use, will have high
manifold vacuum (17" to 21" Hg) at idle speeds. To determine the correct
power valve, the vehicle should be driven at various steady speeds and
vacuum readings taken. The power valve selected should have an opening
point about 2" Hg below the lowest steady speed engine vacuum observed.
Holley has a 6.5" Hg power valve, P/N 125-65, which usually works out
well for most driving situations.
This is why you measure engine vacuum. I've seen a few Holman Moody's (in cars) and they had 12" vacuum at idle or a very "wild" cam, so make sure you measure this before you buy....no matter what the price is!
Good Luck!
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64 Skier
66" HO VTX and 67" HO Triumph
http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1071&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1971&yrend=1975 - 71CC
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Posted By: skyhawkflyer
Date Posted: February-28-2005 at 11:29am
I checked Summit racing and they do have some good carburator pricing, however those carburators are generic in nature and not OEM. I wouldn't buy one unless you really do your homework. Most PCM OEM carb have side hung floats vs center hung floats, which can present adjustability problems if your carb will be mounted at an angle like most older Ski Nautiques are. Fuel inlet location if it's not the same will also be a problem. And if you have Perfect Pass on your boat then it will also be important to make sure the throttle bracketry remains the same. Check with Correct Craft. There are some good guy's there that know what carbs (specific list numbers) work the best, and are simple bolt up installations. I'd rather be out on the lake than sitting in the garage bending fuel lines etc.
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Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: February-28-2005 at 3:38pm
All carb's are universal to a certain degree.
All that you have to match up are
Base plate dimensions, cfm's, electric/maual choke, fuel inlet location, mech/vac secondary's, side hung/center hung floats.
If you really think that you can order a carb and have all of the correct brakets already attached knock your self out and spend the 600 bucks because it's not going to happen. PCM attaches and makes the brackets for the specific application engine. Holley sells PCM the exact same carb you can order through summit then PCM adds the additional brackets to run what ever options the engine has. And if your not smart enought to remove and transfer the brackets then you don't need to be working on your boat's carb to start with and need to hire it and pay the extra cost to make up for your lack of skill and knowledge.
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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique
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Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: February-28-2005 at 4:01pm
summit numbers
HLY-0-80364 302 replacement carb 1985-2001
HLY-0-80319-1 351 replacement carb 1980-1997
Still way below 150 bucks less than the 600+
Again if you are lacking in knowledge and/or skill then you have to pay someone that has the skills and knowledge.
For me I would buy the universal 600cfm and save an additional 75-100 bucks and have the job done in twenty minutes.
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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique
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Posted By: skyhawkflyer
Date Posted: February-28-2005 at 4:57pm
Using a universal you might be able to get away with it, just be cautious!
I took a look at my application for a 87 Ski Nautique. My fuel line comes in the front of the bowl from a 45 degree angle. I checked the Holley website Hly-0-80319-1 carburator specs and they all look applicable, but looking at the picture of the carb it shows the fuel line coming in the side of the front bowl. If that picture is accurate then that carb won't work for me unless I make some changes. I'm not saying it won't work, just you might want to call Holley first and make sure that fuel line comes in where you need to.
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Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: February-28-2005 at 5:05pm
I thought Holley only used two different fuel line feeds. One single line that is to the side and at 45 degrees facing forward and the double dump version with the fittings pointed to the side and down at 45 degrees
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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique
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Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: February-28-2005 at 5:09pm
by the way how does the posts and join date give you away "70nautique"and "guess" would like to know?
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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique
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Posted By: skyhawkflyer
Date Posted: February-28-2005 at 6:02pm
No, they used a couple different bowls. Take a look at this picture, it's for the Hly-0-80319-1.
http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLine/Products/Marine/FMS/FMSC/0-80319-1.html
If the picture is acurate then it won't work unless I make up a different fuel line or switch bowls.
Most likely the rear bowl would have to be removed and the float re-adjusted as well (for my application)
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Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: March-01-2005 at 11:05am
I would bet that you could just replace the brass fitting to a 90 degree fitting to get to work. They do make chrome bowls as well if you already have a dressed up engine.
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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique
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Posted By: Tim D
Date Posted: March-01-2005 at 12:23pm
I traded in my Holley and got a rebuilt one for $172 (just like new)at Carolina Carburetor in Wilmington, NC. I even switched Holley models. Carbs is all these guys do, and they have a flow bench where they run mineral spirits through the carb and can check it. And speaking of fuel consumption, there's a big difference between 5 people and 2 people riding in my '66 Mustang.
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Tim D
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