can you say?
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URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12196
Printed Date: December-29-2024 at 1:55pm
Topic: can you say?
Posted By: eric lavine
Subject: can you say?
Date Posted: October-20-2008 at 10:07am
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President Obama, I think Powell clinched it ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Replies:
Posted By: OM45GE
Date Posted: October-20-2008 at 10:26am
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A lot of conservatives dismissed him as a closet Democrat, but I think he will give a lot of like minded Republicans justification to do the same. Agree with him or not, his statement about why he made the decision was one of the most reasoned and well expressed things I've heard recently.
President Powell some day? ------------- 1989 SN 2001 |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: October-20-2008 at 10:37am
Interesting choice of words... ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
eric lavine wrote:Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: October-20-2008 at 12:46pm
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I think, very choicey
------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 75 Tique
Date Posted: October-20-2008 at 1:44pm
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woo hoo... welcome to the USSA ------------- _____________ “So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
Posted By: azeus17
Date Posted: October-20-2008 at 1:52pm
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Lets not count those chicken just yet.
Whether we want to admit it or not, there are a lot of people out there that are just unwilling to vote for a black man for President of the United States. It is easy to tell a pollster that you plan on voting for Obama, it is an entirly different story actually pulling the lever for him. Right or wrong, just the way it is. If I was Obama, not sure how much I would want a Powell endorsment. Kind of goes against his whole anti war thing, seeing how it was Powell's speach at the UN that really sealed the deal for this war. As for Powell for President, I think I remember hearing him say he would never put his family through something like that. Can't really argue with that. Who needs that grief? ------------- Boats: Current: 02 SANTE Sold: 89 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: 75 Tique
Date Posted: October-20-2008 at 2:14pm
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Adam,
Not that its my sentiment, but I agree with you and had brought that up to others before. I finally heard on the news this weekend that it has a name...The Bradley Effect, after a black governor(?) candidate in CA that was way ahead in the polls but lost. And color aside, I have trouble believing most polls as they tend to be biased to the left any way. Kerry and Gore were ahead in the polls too. What is a little scary tho is the electoral vote count. McCain only has to loose by one vote in each state and the whole state's Electoral vote goes to Obama and looks like a landslide. Going to be a long night.(at least I hope it will be...as compared to an early on electoral landslide) ------------- _____________ “So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
Posted By: Luchog
Date Posted: October-20-2008 at 2:15pm
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Maybe McCain has given more resons not to be voted than Obama's given to be voted.
------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2095" rel="nofollow - 1980 Ski Nautique Commander 351W |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: October-20-2008 at 2:47pm
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Azues, i think the wont vote for a blackman people will be offset by the Im voting for a blackman people, ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 88 Nautique
Date Posted: October-20-2008 at 9:28pm
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Do you all actually believe Colin Powell just recently made up his mind as to who he was going to vote for? He's looking at the polls!! Colin Powell is following the most popular man right now because he wants to be president. For me to believe that he was "undecided" up until a month ago is totally ridicules and unbelievable.
As far as Obama's "spread the wealth" socialist stance, you can have it. I don't want any part of it. If you are a small busness owner, you aught to be scared as hell. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1657" rel="nofollow - My 88 Nautique |
Posted By: kevin719
Date Posted: October-20-2008 at 10:30pm
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If you believe in Obamas public health care just visit a country that already has it.My wife is from Ukraine and their best doctors are already here in USA. Their hospitals are dumps and the doctors expect you to give them money or they will send you home! I want my doctors to be rich and happy. Socialism is a form of communism. Not very political but I get pissed when politicians takes those of us who works every days money and gives it away to some lazy a--. Just my opinion. ------------- kevinindy |
Posted By: jbear
Date Posted: October-21-2008 at 2:36am
Going to be a long 4 years my friend.... Luciano: I think you hit the nail right on the head. john ------------- "Loud pipes save lives" AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: October-21-2008 at 10:23am
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where are all the Demmy's?
McCain in my eyes is the better man for the job, but, I have no idea what part of his body was doing the thinking when he picked his running mate. thats where he f-d up. she is mainly out of the spotlight becasue she has no clue on what the hell is going on, and there is a good chance she would be bumped up into the high seat....Deer season would be a national holiday and the postal workers would get the day off ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: azeus17
Date Posted: October-21-2008 at 10:47am
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Larry-
I think I saw the same thing, or similar, on ABC nightly news the other week. Eric- Good point. Kevin- There was one state in the union that provided universal health care to its residents, Hawaii. Guess what happened, they shut it down 7 months after it started. They could not keep up with the cost and demand. People were basically saying "Why should I continue to pay for my personal health care when the government will give it to me?" If Obama does win, I hope the doctors and politicians are smart enough to sperate government health care from private health care. I don't want my doctor and hospital to be bogged down with runny noses headaches so much that I can not even get in to see them when I really need to. I am not a mean spirited person, I just don't think this can work. Great idea in theory, bad idea in reality. ------------- Boats: Current: 02 SANTE Sold: 89 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: October-21-2008 at 11:56am
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one theory that does seem to work is setting up sick stations at your local pharmacy, if you havnt noticed there is one at every corner, but it could take care of the runny noses and coughs, My wife is from that generation, she gets flu shots, she makes sure meat is well done, she goes to the doctor for a frickin hang nail,
Ive seemed to miss the Doctor for about 15 years, which i probably shouldnt, but if it does head to a social direction education needs to follow, there really is alot of excess in the medical industry and regulations need to be put in place, Doctors are gun shy and cover the bases nowadays, when you dont have coverage as 46 MILLION dont, they will not mind standing in line for 8 hours, its better than sitting at home waiting to die because you dont have coverage, its always the well covered that get on the band wagon with the big mouths. we live in the most powerful society in the world and the current health care system does not work...prove me wrong ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: DeepCreekNauti
Date Posted: October-21-2008 at 3:12pm
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I really don't buy the whole concept that if Obama loses it will be b/c America 'wont elect a black man'. This is just silly, after all how many people voted for him so far. I think a lot of the people pushing this BS are just trying to keep the whole "racism in America" alive.
Polls ARE NOT science. You really have to listen carefully to how they describe the poll criteria 'likely Voters' are people who answered the phone. 'Registered Voters' are people who 9 out of 10 times, show up and vote. Polls can be tailored to achieve specific results. In the case of The Bradley Effect, this did not prove race was a factor, it just proved that polling is flawed. Most of us know people who will not tell who they will or have voted for. Funny, when I hear people who are going to vote this election, it is just too important talking about how they are going to vote for McCain or Obama. I always ask them...where are they going to vote in November? Most have no idea where their polling station is. They better stick to answering the phone. Was is really scary is that if Obama wins there will most likely be a one party majority house, senate & executive. Our system is based on check and balances. Who will be in DC to say no? |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: October-21-2008 at 4:23pm
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on the other side of the coin, he is half white....does this make him a white man or a black man? or is it what one thinks? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Luchog
Date Posted: October-21-2008 at 5:04pm
I dont think so, perhaps it was 30 years ago, but today I see socialism as the result of capitalism lastly not providing solutions for an entire society. Some people just gets too many while other dont get any. The new Socialism nowadays is far from Communism, it has turn into a way of Capitalism where the state regulates some things to make it work for everyone so it doesnt get too unbalanced, Sweeden, Finland, Denmark could be examples. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2095" rel="nofollow - 1980 Ski Nautique Commander 351W |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: October-21-2008 at 5:27pm
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Luch, explain healthcare in your country including the pro's and con's
socialism in a democracy is a far cry from socialism in a dictatorship ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Luchog
Date Posted: October-21-2008 at 6:30pm
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Eric, healthcare here goes like this, you can get privates healthcare (pre-paid), in wich case you get attention almost everywhere (the better the prepaid or plan you have the more places you get)or if you dont have a prepaid you can go to public hospitals.
These are pretty good in my city, so we get a lot of inner migration from other places of the country where they dont. When you work, you or your employer pay a montly tax for your retirement and healthcare, it's an obligation wich many like to dismiss. This montly fee depends on your annual salary. You can still get your desired pre paid and if it's more expensive get that montly health fee deduced. I want to state that my city, Rosario, have had the socialist party at the helm for the last 15 years, they invested heavily in the health system and they recently won the State elections, besides their party, they are more Capitalist than you would think, it's the way some things are done what makes them Socialist but they are certainly not communists. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2095" rel="nofollow - 1980 Ski Nautique Commander 351W |
Posted By: kevin719
Date Posted: October-21-2008 at 7:16pm
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Our current health care system may not be perfect but it is still one of the best in the world! Our insurance companies on the other hand would have to be close to the bottom! I just do not believe that the government can make either one better.They will probably make a huge mess of it. If the demms want to pay for people who do not work insurance than let them with their own money.I am not rich or poor or have great insurance but I work hard for what I have and so should everyone that is mentally and physically able! If we quit giving all of these handouts to people I think that they will find a way to survive.I am not trying to pi-- anyone off, it is just my opinion(right or wrong) ------------- kevinindy |
Posted By: azeus17
Date Posted: October-21-2008 at 8:07pm
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Why doesn't Obama just say he is going to better fund Medicaid and make it available to more people? That would, essentially, do the same thing, but that does not sound as nice as "Universal Health Care." Or maybe he does not want to link his social health program to a failing social health program.
DeepCreek is right about the scary majority the left would have if Obama wins. He also left out the fact that the next president will also appoint 2-3 supreme court judges. Now all three branches of the government will be full blown democrat. So much for checks and balances. ------------- Boats: Current: 02 SANTE Sold: 89 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: kevin719
Date Posted: October-21-2008 at 8:33pm
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism - socialism ------------- kevinindy |
Posted By: 88 Nautique
Date Posted: October-22-2008 at 1:40am
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If the majority of the people believe that health care is a "right", then we are in serious trouble because you will have the majority of people voting to have the government paying for this so called right.
A right that is not guaranteed to us in the constitution. I do not believe that health care is a "right" anymore than I think we have a right to housing, transportation, food and clothing. The only "right" I have is freedom. If you want to make health care a right for everyone, then you have to take away our freedoms. As far as fixing our health care system to make it more affordable for more people, that could be another topic. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1657" rel="nofollow - My 88 Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: October-22-2008 at 10:11am
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whats making it not affordable is the offset costs for the uninsured, anyway you look at it the uninsured are being paid by the insured, our high premiums through the insurance companies are paying the tab. A family on the edge shouldnt have to pay 700 to 800 a month for healthcare, and ***************ty coverage at that
------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: October-22-2008 at 10:19am
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How many have considered this...if Obama were to be President, he wouldn't qualify for security clearance to be his own bodyguard. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: October-22-2008 at 12:30pm
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Greg, "if" interesting choice of a word lol ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: October-22-2008 at 1:06pm
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Touche! ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: sanity
Date Posted: October-22-2008 at 2:13pm
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wow...you guys are tough. I just wanted to comment on a few of the things I found humorous. My boss gives us first day of deer season off - paid - because we all hunt. "His" choice and freedom to do so, as "he" pays our wages. My fiance is in the military. Seems like there is a paid holiday at least every other week. Who pays their wages? He is Military/Government...Health care is another issue:when faced with a serious health issue, it's great having options. You usually have several hospitals to choose from, as well as many doctors under company insurance. I like that option. I like having choices. A few years ago, we did have to make choices regarding a serious health issue and I would hate to think of not being able to go where we decided and to the doctors we chose. Our society has become sue happy, the criminals are innocent until proven guilty - even if you witnessed the crime. Welfare has become a way of life for many. Many of our children are not being raised to work hard and to earn what they make.I do not like politics (or politicians). I know who I am voting for and I know where I am going to vote. But...can we have a do over?
I do agree that there is alot of racial tension stemming from this election. We have local high schools rioting. At what point does it stop? |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: October-22-2008 at 2:33pm
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Im in no way defending or endorsing anyone here, just putting out some media driven accusations, he is half white and why dont we call him a Honkie? he is what america is made of, Im a pollock and consider myself an American first which i think he does, I dont think he sits home at night and thinks to himself well what am i or maybe he does....tommorow I'll be a honky and Saturday I'll be a n-,
------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: sanity
Date Posted: October-22-2008 at 2:52pm
| LOL...nor am I Eric. I was just throwing a few things out there that bother me in general. They are what they are. |
Posted By: 87BFN owner
Date Posted: October-22-2008 at 3:55pm
75, Not true the electoral college has the right to vote any way they see fit. The popular vote can be for one guy and the electoral college can vote for the other guy if they want to. Rarely happens but it has happened in past elections where the electoral votes went opposite of the popular vote. ------------- |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: October-22-2008 at 3:58pm
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Eric, I don't care if he's pink with blue spots...he has no experience. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: October-22-2008 at 3:59pm
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not many do being the President, Biden has the experience but he has been exposed to politics too long, he reminds me of your typical used car salesman ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: October-22-2008 at 4:52pm
 ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1143" rel="nofollow - Mi Bowt |
Posted By: kevin719
Date Posted: October-22-2008 at 5:35pm
I wish that we had a third choice(and not that big-eared geeser from Texas, perot) ------------- kevinindy |
Posted By: nates78ski
Date Posted: October-25-2008 at 7:46pm
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we do have a 3rd choice...& a pretty solid one at that... Barr, I wanna vote for him bad, but as much as i want to vote for him & DONT want Obama in the office Doubly so, so im forced to vote for the 'conservative' that actually has a chance...
Nate ------------- Nathan http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1463&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1978&yrend=1978" rel="nofollow - My '78 Ski Nautique <a href="http://photobucket.com/Nates78ski" rel="nofoll |
Posted By: skinaut
Date Posted: October-31-2008 at 3:22pm
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[QUOTE=azeus17] Lets not count those chicken just yet.
Whether we want to admit it or not, there are a lot of people out there that are just unwilling to vote for a black man for President of the United States. The Dems and media have done a fine job of playing up Obama's blackness as an African American. I live in a southern military town and the issue here is not about him being black, it's about him being a black Arab Muslim. With the largest amount of terrorist actions coming from the Muslim world. Most here have lost loved one's fighting this extremist movement, it makes it real hard to trust anyone with a Muslim background or even a Muslim sounding name. Sorry, right or wrong That's just the way it is. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/images/3984/photo1.jpg" rel="nofollow - 86 Ski http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h183/chinewalker/boats/May820015.jpg" rel="nofollow - 70 Centurion |
Posted By: AbunDiga909
Date Posted: November-05-2008 at 9:37pm
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skinaut, that is one of the most racist, close-minded, outright disgusting things ive heard in a long time. the fact that you say that seriously is extremely dissapointing--i had thought our country matured from people like you....
He IS NOT a muslim, first of all. And second of all, even if he were, doesn't matter. Good for all those people in your town fighting in the military. Its a very honorable job and extremely dangerous. But I wish you would travel to these places and spend some time there first hand to see what our military is doing right now--not the most honorable stuff.... Many recent attacks around the world are a direct result of our presense and actions in these Arab nations. Sorry, right or wrong That's just the way it is. ------------- I Nautique, therefore I am. |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: November-06-2008 at 10:08am
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ooo fizz, I think we better mind our thoughts and keep them readable cause i think the Obamarama got cut. My brother in law thinks also that it is a big conspiracy that he is a Muslim. the President elect sat in the same pew pue pu ?? for the last 20 some years in a church every Sunday. I would imagine it was a baptist church and I would imagine they followed one of the Testaments. Give the guy a chance i think we will all be surprised. he went to Harvard law not flight school and he married his equal that truly is as smart as he is ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: sanity
Date Posted: November-06-2008 at 10:42am
| And again...I must remind SOMEONE that Veterans Day is November 11th. Let's show the respect and honor that these men and women deserve. That IS the way it is IF you are "proud" of our US of A. Posted from a proud United States Airforce and United States Army miltary family member. |
Posted By: azeus17
Date Posted: November-06-2008 at 10:42am
He was until he met his wife and converted to Christianity.
Hell yes it matters. Lets spin it for a minute. Would you be ok with electing a KKK member? Me neither. Why is it OK to elect one extremist and not another. I am not saying I think he is a Islamic extremist, but he is a liberal extremist and terrorist sympathiser.
Your right. They had all the reasons in the world to fly three jets into buildings. Can you really be that blind? I really hope Obama proves us all wrong and turns out to be a great leader, but I just have a hard time seeing that based on the little bit we know about his past. ------------- Boats: Current: 02 SANTE Sold: 89 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: November-06-2008 at 12:13pm
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there are serial killers who are devout catholics,
Muslim, is a religion as is christianity....not all Muslims think alike,as i am catholic but not a serial killer. you know the difference between good and evil. im not taking a side, just trying to get a point across. when you poke at the beehive, your gonna get stung ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: AbunDiga909
Date Posted: November-06-2008 at 11:35pm
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azeus17, absolutely. There is a HUGE difference between someone being a member of the KKK and someone who is Muslim. And, again, its extremely dissapointing that you fail to differentiate the two. One is an independent organization that you voluntarily join as a result of your person beliefs and intentions, and the other is a simple religion! To say that all muslims are extremists is extremely racist. yes, i am fully aware that many of recent attacks have been by muslims, but that is less than 2% of their population! If we continue to group all muslims as such, we're never going to progress to anything....
Calling him a terrorist sympathizer and a liberal extremist is just plain dumb. he is not as liberal as people make him out to be. he was not nearly as liberal as some of the people he was running against in the primary. No where near as liberal as Dodd, Edwards, or even Clinton... the media uses the few votes he has as numbers to manipulate that fact.... Lastly, I am not saying that they had good reasons to fly planes into buildings. I am not a sympathizer for terrorists. I obviously do not agree with that decision. On the other hand, our long-term presence in their territory has been a gradual factor into their hatred towards us. I do not agree with it, but a lot of them see us an infidels for occupying their religious land. As many of us are, they are extremely religious, and do not put up with any people they dont agree with occupying their holy land. If they were occupying Jerusalem, I'm sure a lot of Americans would want to do the same things.. I'm not trying to be angry or anything, but you have to see their side and understand their history and their opinions and motives, otherwise no one will get anywhere... We are the greatest nation in the world FOR US, not for everyone... ------------- I Nautique, therefore I am. |
Posted By: 64X55
Date Posted: November-07-2008 at 3:48pm
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Reading this thread was entertaining, but a bit disturbing. I wanted to address some things said earlier in the post.
AbunDiga909 said (somewhere above): To say that all muslims are extremists is extremely racist. To use one of my favorite quips AbunDiga909, I dont think that word means what you think it means! Being racist deals with being critical of or hateful toward someone because of their (as the label implies) RACE not because of their religious affiliation (which is what being Muslim is). Of course that seems to be just a confusion of terms here, but if youre going to speak, you should at least try to use words that make proper sense. You might have employed the use of the word bigot or bigotry which is broader and could include race and religious discrimination of sorts. Eric saying that Muslim is a religion is wrong too. Its not. Islam is the religion; Muslim is an adherent to the religion of Islam. Dont ask me why, its just the way it is! Im kidding! Im sure theres a reason and Ive often wondered, but I dont know what it is (without doing a little research). All I know on that matter is that you dont call people of the Islamic religion Islams like you call adherents of Christianity Christians. They are Muslims but the religion is Islam. Okay, now that weve whipped through day one of Religion 101, Etymology 101 and Grammar 101, lets move on. I think what you are getting at in your varied post replies is that you believe Skinaut is out of touch and just plain nasty and ignorant! Thats what I got out of what you said, even though I thought he made some perfectly valid points. In reading your comments, it seems to me that there is actually some degree of ignorance flying around there in what youve written. You apparently didnt read his entire post and sensibly consider what he was saying. You say (regarding Skinaut) that his comment was: One of the most racist, close-minded, outright disgusting things Ive heard in a long time a bit of a harsh assessment, dont you think? Also, you make this rather biting remark: - I had thought our country matured from people like you.... Wow! Well weve already established that you used racist improperly, but, moving along, when you really look at it, what Skinaut said does not warrant your critical comments at all. He prefaced what he said with Whether we want to admit it or not implying that he himself didnt feel that way (regarding the thought of a black president) and he closed by saying Sorry, right or wrong, thats just the way it is. The problem with your attacks on poor ole Skinaut is that those are legitimate statements and he qualified them with indications that he didnt really even agree with them, but you climbed all over him without considering that. I can honestly say that a presidents skin color is, to me, irrelevant (aside from the admittedly historical interest) provided he is a good man for the job. But, the fact is that what Skinaut said is true; some folks will still be affected by that, rightly or wrongly in their decision process. Id say wrongly, and I think Skinaut implied that of himself as well. Now, moving to the concern of an Islamic President, in the U.S.; heres where it gets a bit stickier. And I reference this because you insisted that if he were (a Muslim), it doesnt matter. There indeed are some reasons for concern about that and they are, unfortunately, tied, in some cases, to terrorism and the wiggle room within some Islamic thought for that kind of behavior. Certainly there are many Muslims who do not approve of terrorism, but there are those (and plenty of them) who do justify terrorism by what they have been taught and those whats have often been loosely justified by the Koran (the book Muslims follow). Now, before you jump to some hair-brained statement about similar things being reasonably said of the Bible and the Christian faith, I would caution to remain aware that I believe I could make a very strong argument against that mindset. Im saying that based on my reading of (or about) each, the Koran has more opportunity for justifying such behavior; not what men have done with either through some of history, but specifically, what the two books ultimately teach. If you want to debate that elsewhere, Id welcome the opportunity. So, again moving on, heres the thing. If you look at the entire history of the varied faiths of all the men who have been U.S. presidents, you will find that all (from George to George and dont forget, even Obamas claim to some Christian connection has been prominent and so apparently important in this past campaign) have been, basically Christian with the exception of a couple (maybe a few Im doing this from memory) Deists in the mix. There is certainly some diversity in the group with regard to how much they relied on their faith, etc., but the list is small and mostly within the realm of Christianity for all these many years! If you question this, check out the book God and the Oval Office. It reveals clearly that the list includes a perhaps surprising number of Presbyterians and Episcopalians, some Methodists, a couple of Quakers, a few Baptists, one Catholic, and maybe a Lutheran or two; I forget exactly, but the list is very much like what Ive described here. Note, those are all Christian denominations, but still all within Christianity. So what does that say? I believe it says that, despite what weve being force fed for many years now, our country was originally a strongly Christian based country and that many feel we would be foolish to not continue to recognize that in our highest decision making arenas. So when you say He IS NOT a muslim, first of all. And second of all, even if he were, doesn't matter that is only one opinion (yours). Whether its one that is gaining acceptance or popularity doesnt make it a finished fact. Many, like myself, I believe would feel strongly otherwise. And that doesnt mean I hate anyone. It just means I have a solid belief about our Christian heritage in the U.S. Getting ones head wrapped around Church and State issues and supposed Tolerance or Intolerance issues is getting stickier and I agree that theres never a time to be hateful, but there is a time to stand for what you believe, and if that means disagreeing strongly with opinions or voicing opposition to statements that are not well thought out and without basis, then so be it. I noticed (reviewing the profiles) that you are 19 years old and Skinaut is 78 years old. I bring this to light because Ive noticed younger people even up to beyond 30 are being more and more softened to this idea that tolerance means embracing everybodys views and beliefs as equally valid. Thats nonsense and we better wake up and recognize that. I heard some good commentary on this not long ago. Somewhere I read that the definition of tolerance has been evolving from what our grandparents meant by it, and that was to treat others (of different views and beliefs), with decency simply because they are fellow human beings, but to embrace and consider equally valid, for instance, Islam when you are a Christian is just utter nonsense. It doesnt work; the two are not compatible. If you don't buy that, ask a Muslim if they are willing to embrace Christianity as equally valid compared to their belief. I think anyone who is honest and informed and the least bit knowledgeable knows what answer theyd get to that! To close, Id like to say again (as I think I eluded to this in a previous post perhaps over a year ago now), lets keep the option of discussions on politics and religion open. I was disappointed to see that one site (incidentally another cool boating site) so much as banned such discussions because they got a bit heated at times. Well big deal! Just keep it respectable and not nasty and we all might learn something. Wow, I think I said this before too but its worth repeating. Im always disappointed to hear anyone use the old clich line Two things I never talk about are politics and religion! Thats just plain silly. Youre religion (even if its a lack of one) and your beliefs are most often what you hold most dear and your political views are often tempered by your basic beliefs (as it should logically be). So to paraphrase that dumb clich could be just as easily worded Dont ever talk about what is really ultimately important in life. One day well all pull our boats into a dock somewhere for the last time. What then? To me, that seems like something to tuck into in the most important stuff of life category and consider deeply and frequently! Lets not be afraid to talk about it for fear of offending someone. And AbunDiga909, I see, also from your profile that youre still in school (i.e. still in the education process i.e. still learning); so keep thinking and remember this little quote Ive always liked: Education is like perfume; smell it, dont swallow it! ------------- Inboards Rule! |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: November-07-2008 at 4:11pm
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that is by far the longest post I've ever read, it was good reading, sorry about the Muslim...make that Islam ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: November-07-2008 at 4:54pm
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For sure that is the longest post on here. It flowed well and I was able to read the whole thing too!
------------- |
Posted By: dmiracle
Date Posted: November-07-2008 at 5:17pm
| Great post. Very well thought out and insightful, regardless of who you support. |
Posted By: 64X55
Date Posted: November-07-2008 at 6:07pm
|
Thanks guys -- You know, it's awful warm here in Western Maryland for a mid November day; I think I might go for a "second" final boat ride this evening...
Stabil is in the gas tank but I didn't fog yet!  ------------- Inboards Rule! |
Posted By: AbunDiga909
Date Posted: November-07-2008 at 6:50pm
|
Very true, my mistake and apologies on the grammar and what not. I thought it was implied that what I said in my post was my opinion--sorry if I was asserting that as truth.
I cannot possibly respond as well as you did to me, but, in a nutshell, I'm not asking us to embrace their religion, and I would never ask anyone to embrace ours. All I ask is that we just respect it as theirs and not enforce ours onto them. I just think that times have changed and we cannot hold onto the "we were founded by christians as a christain nation" notion anymore. If anything, we were founded by immigrants, and that is what we should be celebrating. Many people who live in areas of high diversity see this as a huge milestone in America's progress--I do--policies aside. Thanks for understanding my young immaturity and mere 19 years of living in this crazy world. yes I'm still learning. I have to go to class now. good discussion sorry if i came across to harsh. Austin ------------- I Nautique, therefore I am. |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: November-07-2008 at 6:59pm
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good......now start buying some good ole American Iron and we'll be great again ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: azeus17
Date Posted: November-07-2008 at 9:03pm
|
True that, Eric. Read today that GM will be out of cash and not able to operate by the end of the year if they do not get the LOANS they are asking for from the government. I am all for free market capitalism, but I also realize how many people are directly and indirectly tied to US auto makers. If you think we are doing bad now, wait until 1-2 million more have lost their jobs with auto makers/suppliers. ------------- Boats: Current: 02 SANTE Sold: 89 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: November-08-2008 at 11:17am
|
we could knock the world on its ass in 30 days, it all comes together when you think about it, once again my mother drives a Hyundai, my brother my father in law they all drive Hyundais. I really dont care what somebody drives, I look at it from a business sense, someone here recently went to China and couldnt believe what they saw.....they saw the US 20 years ago.
the Government has no control on what car a person buys, it is a mind set from the 80's that foriegn cars are better...i also work on cars everyday and they are not a better car, if anything the foriegn cars have lost alot of quality and the American cars gained in quality and pretty much equaled out. when you run a business you need more money coming in than going out. the same philosophy applies with the government and the economy or you create a deficit. people and thier choices control the economy ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: November-08-2008 at 11:46am
Craig...
------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: November-08-2008 at 12:11pm
|
is that a middle finger or a thumb? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: November-08-2008 at 12:16pm
These work too! 
I was going to pick on your last statement but I cut it... ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: November-08-2008 at 12:30pm
|
Greg, I really think I get on here just to get a reaction out of you..its hard to hurt my feelings....Its a new day out there, the sun is shining, steaks thawing for later, just trying to make the world a better place.....without profiting ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: November-08-2008 at 12:38pm
|
Wow, me specifically? LOL
I'm honored! ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: November-08-2008 at 12:57pm
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yeah you, me and you are completely opposite on things but on the same page as other things. I just like to get a rise out of you ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: November-08-2008 at 1:38pm
|
You might be saying that I'm an easy target?!!? ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: November-08-2008 at 4:47pm
|
just trying to draw you in to the conversation ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: nates78ski
Date Posted: November-08-2008 at 5:18pm
|
I think one of the big problems with the US auto industry is that they got complacent. GM was in troublw in the early 90's, then they started improving, once they saw that improvement, they just sat back & let it plateau then sink & now they're back in the same situation.
Withholding the consumers & their buying trends, if the executives at the domestic automakers didn't sit on their laurels and just think "well, we're GM, Ford, etc, we could never go under..." & well here we are, on the eve of one of these companies going under. It's sad, but they will probably go under, but on the flip side of that, organizations will not take a change initiative seriously until they're actually FORCED to do so, but they'll be back, running as a leaner and more change-ready organization. The biggest problem the Auto industry is having is that good news travels much slower than bad news. i.e. back when the import cars were of better quality versus the domestic cars, that news spread quickly. But, now that the domestic automakers are closing the gap, or have closed the gap, a large chunk of the people in the country still have a perception that imports are better. Just think about it: When you've had a bad experience with a company, how many people did you tell 5-10? & on the flip side, when youve had a good experience with a company... 1-3? Nate ------------- Nathan http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1463&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1978&yrend=1978" rel="nofollow - My '78 Ski Nautique <a href="http://photobucket.com/Nates78ski" rel="nofoll |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: November-08-2008 at 5:56pm
|
sit for one hour and think what would really happen if every American decided not to by an Asian car for one year.
what would happen to thier economy? what would happen to our economy? the price of cars are market driven, there are 2 ways to make money, by volume and by price, if your sales decline you have to increase price, if your volume increases you can decrease prices. prices of new cars have skyrocketed to compete and this is why you are seeing lease programs disappearing, because the turn in value is not there. the car depreciates so much when it rolls off the lot. actually i think it would only take 6 months ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: azeus17
Date Posted: November-08-2008 at 9:32pm
|
Eric-
That was me in China. There are a lot of problems with the auto industry, to many to even get into here. But I hope they do something to clean it up because it really would be a shame for the US to lose such a large part of its history. On a brighter note, gas prices are back down to a reasonable level. Maybe people will start buying nice, big, profitable SUV and trucks again. Wouldn't that be something if all the sudden the LARGE car market took off and Detroit is ready to build them while the rest of the world is stuck making go karts. I am going to do my part and buy a Tahoe or Yukon this spring. ------------- Boats: Current: 02 SANTE Sold: 89 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: November-09-2008 at 11:31am
|
Azues, what did you think of China?
the gas prices dropped and i sold my 454 suburban....they'll be back...(gas prices) ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 64X55
Date Posted: November-09-2008 at 6:14pm
|
Wow, just saw the replies since Friday when I wrote my "world record length" post.
Interesting stuff! I hate to see such trouble with U.S. auto makers. I liked Eric's words about foreign cars not being any better than U.S. cars. It's encouraging coming from someone who works on them. I like the idea of being either a Ford guy or a Chevy guy; or maybe even a Mopar Man! BUT, while I've owned a Ford Taurus, a Mercury Cougar, a Chevy Caprice and a Chevy Astro in the past 10 or 15 years, I've also put (so far) over 215,000 on a little Honda Civic and it's still going strong. But then again, my Dad has a newer Honda Accord that, while in many respects is obviously a great car, he's had some recurring problems with brakes and electrical stuff and it's not very old.
The same thing happened with electric guitars in the 70's and 80's (I'll talk about something I know here cuz' I'm an ole' geetar player). Japanese bought up a pile of old classic Fender and Gibson guitars, studied them in great detail, and then started copying them superbly and cranking out some fantastic electric guitars, while Gibson and Fender were "on vacation" for a while. Increasingly, players began to criticize the quality of the U.S. builder's instruments. Gibson almost went out of business at one point (I think in the 90's). Fortunately, someone with a good business head turned things around, basically by, so I've read, improving (or restoring) the quality of the once great product. Oh, and in the mean time there was a noticeable decline in the quality of what Yamaha was making (guitar-wise). It makes you wonder about what Eric said about some foreign car's quality going downhill more recently. Is it just a business sense thing? They build well for a while and then take it easy in an effort to save money for a while just riding on a reputation? Sounds kind of short sighted, if that's the case. You'd think a company would keep working hard to stay on top. Of course there's always the possibilities of plain laziness or overconfidence to consider? In the case of Honda, I doubt if that's it. In the news not long ago, they were talking about a Honda spokesman who was discussing the Hydrogen powered car they've developed. They asked "What about the fact that there is no wide spread network of fueling stations for such a car?" He replied: "When Henry Ford decided to mass produce cars (gas powered cars), there weren't gas stations all over the place either!" Companies like Yamaha and Honda are impressive and they apparently do lots of homework, pretty often, it seems, studying stuff we made first! Incidentally, (and I know this is an "inboard heavy" site) how many here knew Yamaha made a really great stern drive unit that used a GM engine? They say they were excellent drives, but that Mercruiser was just too big for them to keep producing them competitively. I see one of those drives every now and then on a boat in a sale flier. For that matter, how many knew that Volvo Penta once made an outboard? Yep, they did! ------------- Inboards Rule! |
Posted By: 64X55
Date Posted: November-09-2008 at 7:10pm
|
Okay, had to make this a separate post because I wanted to address Austin's (AbundDiga909's) follow up to my earlier long rambling.
First, Austin, I appreciate the tone of your reply. I figured I was getting a little sharp on a few points and I sort of expected that I might be setting up there to get my head bitten off! Anyway, thanks for that! I did want to comment though (hopefully more briefly), since a couple of things in your reply caught my attention. When you say "I'm not asking us to embrace their religion" my thought is that, assuming someone holds to the belief that the Christian faith played a larger roll in the development of our country than some now say, if we would see a Muslim taking the office of U.S. president, as incidental, then that is, in a very real sense, the U.S. embracing Islam. I understand there are lots of folks who have no quarrel with that; too often, I'm afraid because they just don't really care about such things anymore. The differences in how we're viewing things here are clear in that you are ready to let go of what you call a "notion" (the idea that we were first, and for a long time, a Christian nation) but what I would call an important fact of history that we should hold on to for some very good reasons. To say we should be celebrating the thought that "we were founded by immigrants," for one thing, I'm not sure is right either. Nothing really wrong with "celebrating" immigrants being here I suppose (since many (or most) of us are immigrants (or decendents of)), but the statement has a ring of all this celebrating diversity stuff which I think is again getting back to embracing "all" of "everybody's" belief systems when I am trying to respectfully maintain that there are not many roads to the same place (spiritually speaking) and that our country held that as a majority opinion once upon a time. I'd say we might certainly celebrate that we were, early on, "populated by" immigrants and so there's a diversity of cultures here; it makes life interesting for sure, as they say "variety is the spice of life" but I have seen too much detailed info. that supports the fact of a very strong Christian heritage in the U.S. I also understand the attempted balance you're trying to achieve by saying that (I'm paraphrasing here) you would never ask anyone to embrace our religion. That does sound good and fair and balanced at first, and it sort of sounds like another well-worn saying something like "I don't like people trying to cram their religion down my throat, etc. etc. " (or something like that). I suppose I agree with the "cramming" part, but as for "asking" (as you did say), someone to "embrace our religion" if it is Christian, I'd have to say I would be all right with that. After all, that is a basic tenet of Christianity, to strive to persuade others to believe. "Go...teach all nations...teaching them to observe all things...I have commanded" are words of Jesus (see Matthew 28:19-20 on what's commonly called "the Great Commission"). I know I'm getting a little "preachy" here for a web site about boats, but hey this is the "Off Topic" forum! Again, I understand there was more to what you originally posted than the spiritual content, but I guess I sort of honed in on that as the most important. And again, thanks for taking my rambling seriously and respectfully. Craig (64X55) ------------- Inboards Rule! |