Letter from the Boss
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URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12395
Printed Date: December-29-2024 at 12:42pm
Topic: Letter from the Boss
Posted By: Waterdog
Subject: Letter from the Boss
Date Posted: November-17-2008 at 5:06pm
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Letter from the Boss,
As the CFO of this business that employees 140 people, I have resigned myself to the fact that Barrack Obama will be our next President, and that our taxes and government fees will increase in a BIG way. To compensate for these increases, I figure that the Clients will have to see an increase in our fees to them of about 8% but since we cannot increase our fees right now due to the dismal state of our economy, we will have to lay off eight of our employees instead. This has really been eating at me for a while, as we believe we are family here and I didn't know how to choose who will have to go. So, this is what I did. I strolled thru our parking lot and found 8 Obama bumper stickers on our employees' cars and have decided these folks will be the first to be laid off. I can't think of a more fair way to approach this problem. These folks wanted change; I gave it to them. If you have a better idea, let me know. Sincerely, The Boss ------------- - waterdog - http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3896&sort=&pagenum=2&yrstart=1978&yrend=1978" rel="nofollow - 78 Ski Tique |
Replies:
Posted By: sanity
Date Posted: November-17-2008 at 7:14pm
| Do you think there are 8 obama supporters all working and in the same place to boot? |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: November-17-2008 at 8:10pm
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come on guy's have some faith, were at the lowest of lows, we can only go up ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: November-17-2008 at 8:10pm
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sorry, and girl's ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: PLBC
Date Posted: November-17-2008 at 10:08pm
The Boss cannot even spell the next president's name correct, wouldn't take what he has to say too seriously. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5164&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 99 |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: November-17-2008 at 10:37pm
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Kurt, get your head out of your ass , things are gonna get a lot worse before they get better.
Thankfully Karen and I are on the bottom of that income ladder, so let the trickle down begin. You do not have to have a degee from Stanford or wear a three piece suit to be the BOSS of a multi employee co. that pays taxes and help support 140 families. But somewhere in that reasoning there is some hope that hard work and ethics will keep all other working stiffs footing the bill for all that lies ahead..........Billy/Karen ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: tullfooter
Date Posted: November-18-2008 at 12:32am
Just when you think you've hit the bottom, someone throws you a shovel. 
Just look at the Lions Steve ------------- Play hard, life's not a trial run. '85 BFN '90 BFN White Lake, Michigan |
eric lavine wrote:Posted By: behindpropeller
Date Posted: November-18-2008 at 12:44pm
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Thats not the only CFO that is thinking that way...I can tell you that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bg98BvqUvCc - OBAMA LINE OF THINKING ------------- |
Posted By: M3Fan
Date Posted: November-18-2008 at 2:05pm
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You guys do know that we currently have tax brackets right? You realize that the rich already pay more taxes than the poor by a signifcant margin right? Do you guys all think that different taxes based on income is some new idea brought on by Barack? ------------- 2000 SN GT40 w/99 Graphics/Gel 2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI https://forum.fifteenoff.com |
Posted By: behindpropeller
Date Posted: November-18-2008 at 2:28pm
I know that... The problem is increasing the tax burden on companies..... ------------- |
Posted By: tullfooter
Date Posted: November-18-2008 at 3:26pm
Tim, you hit one of the nails on the head. Everyone is throwing the $250K number around as if $250K is what the taxpayer's paychecks add up to. But owners of small companies, depending on how the company is set up, sub-S for example, get taxed personally on things they buy to grow the company, and in turn, create more jobs. Example; A company owner buys a new delivery truck ($120,000 for just the Semi-tractor), which employs a driver to operate, and the owner gets taxed on the value of the truck. It doesn't take much to reach that $250K threshold, when growing a company in this manner. Now Obama wants to drastically increase the taxes of this "high income" taxpayer. It makes it tough on the small to medium size companies. Sorry so long winded, but it's cause for concern. Steve Taxpayer ------------- Play hard, life's not a trial run. '85 BFN '90 BFN White Lake, Michigan |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: November-18-2008 at 3:55pm
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M-fers clipped me for 5200.00 last month, right out of our bank account....and they didnt even ask. to boot it was an accounting error and those were penalties and late fees
there goes my christmas. what a bad year. sigh ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: November-18-2008 at 4:00pm
All together now...FAIR TAX!!!  ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: November-18-2008 at 4:24pm
Wait till next year when they start spreading the wealth round. Better start dealing in cash. ------------- |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: November-18-2008 at 4:50pm
Steve, I understand your concern but not sure I understand your analogy. Isn't that equipment deductible at 100% up to $250,000 under Section 179 capitol expenses? Vehichles with a gross weight over 6000# should apply. Why would it ADD to you income instead of be shown as an expense? Yes you pay sales tax on the machinery but it in turn gets you the deduction on the bottom line. My biggest concern is that the Section 179 deductions are already being dropped from $250,000 to $128,000 for next year so thats where the small business mans income will essentially go up because there are less deductions for his spending in capitol expansion. When I started in business 11 years ago the 179 cap was $10400, it grew substantially under the present administration and helped myself and many businesses grow and provide jobs, now that is going away and we'll have to depreciate those types of investments over 7 years. You know what I do with that type of incentive,, nothing. I keep my money and say the hell with everybody else. I don't grow my business and infact because I have no incentive to grow my business it in essence shrinks. I pay more taxes and work for the day I can bail out of being self employeed and trying to support more families than my own. This new administration MUST support the small business owner and not penalize them for success. ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: November-18-2008 at 6:06pm
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its a conspiracy!!!! if you didint notice it will be an all plastic world someday, this way they can track every move and transaction
they want to bail out the big three!!!!I say let them file bankrupcy and dump the union which killed the auto industry, Im for unions if it was 1930, and they worked you to death. really though, I bought 4 plastc clips this morning from Ford, they were 36 dollars and if i had to put a price on them it would be no more than 4 cents. poor business practices killed the auto companies and its no wonder they go abroad for manufacturing. the auto companies dont owe thier employees anything except a job. F-me if you want, I work hard everyday and nobody owes me anything. The great employees up here for LTV killed that company too...they shut down and brought in a non union force and are turning profits. Im not knocking the union, but concessions need to be made and pay should be based on a one on one basis, the more you produce the more you get paid. the pride left along time ago and the employees fell into a rut with the attitude of this company owes me, it doesnt ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 05 210
Date Posted: November-18-2008 at 6:26pm
Eric, I understand what you're saying.I feel the exact same way. No one is going to be there to hold my hand if the bottom falls out.Goes back to pride and people being responsible for their own actions.The automakers got themselves into it,they can get themselves out. There is alot of speculation as to what would happen if the big three went out,obviously most of it very negative,but what are the options? You KNOW nothing will change if the government bails them out.Where will they be in 2 more years if the economy is still at a standstill.Right where they are now. I saw the following quote on a post on Wakeworld last night,I thought this pretty much summed it up...... "Its like helping out a drug addict, I'm not opposed to giving him a second chance. But the only way I'm helping him out is with rehabilitation, job training, and things to get him out of the rut he's in. Giving him a handout just supports his drug habit." Mike ------------- http:/diaries/details.asp?ID=2219" rel="nofollow - Air Nautique 210 Team 640 hours, not 1 regret |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: November-18-2008 at 6:29pm
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Hooray for Eric! Just when I was losing hope for you?!!? LOL
FWIW-I think the union tussle will get interesting before this is over. Employees of plants down this way(no unions) who assemble foreign cars for much less an hour are pi$$ed! And BO has some return back scratching to do with some unions. Bankruptcy would negate previous contracts and could make them competitive again. What was it that happened to Tucker? ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: November-18-2008 at 6:32pm
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I agree Mike. Didn't the Brits bail out an auto co in the late 80's to only see it fail shortly after? ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: November-18-2008 at 6:56pm
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Whether or not this is true, I could rewrite it to suit some I know...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2114854/posts - Corey the Well Driller ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: behindpropeller
Date Posted: November-18-2008 at 6:57pm
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Here is an interesting read:
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2008/11/11/failing-like-japan.aspx - Link ------------- |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: November-18-2008 at 7:40pm
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allright, some straight talk from Buffalo lol, you guy's all have great points, you do have to let them slip into bankrupcy to give them power over the unions, if you give them money it will be business as usual and they will be shaking the money tree again. these times are what will go down in history and the government needs to use this money as a bargaining chip and so do the button pushers at the big three,
I am no longer a big sports fan because of salaries, it ruins the structure, sure they deserve good money, but not the kinda money they make....its the same as a guy pushing a broom for 30 bucks an hour ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: nates78ski
Date Posted: November-18-2008 at 7:56pm
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While the Unions do play a significant part in the decline of the automakers, someone had to agree to those contracts....
& don't forget about the cost of health insurance, overhead, etc, etc, etc... Companies are moving their operations overseas because we've simply priced ourselves out of the market. I agree that everyone is entitled to a fair days wage, but is someone who's working @ a plant putting a door on a car, or bolting seats, etc, etc, etc... really worth the 50-60k they're being paid? Heck NO!! The auto companies failed to have a backbone while in negotiations, and are now paying the price for that. As well as rising costs completely unrelated to Unions... Nate ------------- Nathan http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1463&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1978&yrend=1978" rel="nofollow - My '78 Ski Nautique <a href="http://photobucket.com/Nates78ski" rel="nofoll |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: November-18-2008 at 8:02pm
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the average price of a car is 28k, at one time GM was so large, the US government had talks about breaking up the company because of fear. once again simple economics and the unions need to go ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: behindpropeller
Date Posted: November-18-2008 at 8:11pm
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For as big as GM is they could have their own medical system. Small satellite clinics and a main med center for surgery stuff. So that would do away with health insurance problem. If you retire from GM you need to live by a satelitte clinic if you want health care...thats just how it is.
------------- |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: November-18-2008 at 8:32pm
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$3000.00 for every US car sold is the cost for company wide health insurance ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: November-18-2008 at 8:36pm
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GM spent 17 million on viagra in '06...I have to assume that has escalated.
No pun intended?!!?  ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: Andy
Date Posted: November-19-2008 at 1:31am
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As a union plumber, working in a 3 man shop (which I really enjoy)I cant speak for the auto industry. What I can tell you is, there is not a day that goes by or a second of my time, that pride and honest workmanship are NOT a huge factor. If you want to talk badly about an industry, go ahead. If you insist upon throwing unions against a wall as a whole. Thats a different story.
My own personal view on the auto industry is let them eat theirselves. Contracts are negotiated by someone. I leave my house at 5:30 every morning 5 days a week. Usually I won't get home till after 6. I usually make a 40hr check. My commute is only 30 minutes. Tell me I don't give. I cant afford a 50k truck. I cant even afford a 25k truck right now. My wife stays home days with our daughter, and works customer svc nights from home. Tell me we dont need SOME kind of change. Just because he is pres-elect doesn't mean all his views will be shared through congress. Checks and balances anyone? |
Posted By: azeus17
Date Posted: November-19-2008 at 11:03am
Andy- I applauded your hard work, but what does being in a union have to do with that. Are you saying the only reason you work hard is because you are in a union? Of course not! I think a lot of you are missing the bigger picture when you talk about letting the automakers fail. Let’s say we do let GM go into bankruptcy. Are you going to buy a car from them not knowing if they will ever come out of it and be able to provide service for said car? No. Neither is anyone else. There are other options out there. The airline industry could do it because there are very limited choices. If GM/Ford goes bankrupt, they will never come out. Then we will have at least 5 million more jobs lost. You think its bad now, just wait. And if you think you will not be affected because you don't work in the auto industry, think again. With an additional 5MM people out of work, in a flat out depression, people will be buying less of everything. That includes trans rebuilds, Eric and castings, Tull and everything else anyone here makes or provides. Now, breaking the union, I believe, has a large part to play in this. Why does everyone assume that to do this, they have to file bankruptcy? Congress has the power to alter the laws that give these unions so much power. Will they? Heck no. Pelosi, Reed, Dodd in charge and now Obama on the way to the big chair. What a joke. There are ways the government can give the (not so) big three the LOANS they are asking for and change legislation so they can be helpful. But they would rather point fingers at the past than try to fix the future. As far as taxes. I can tell you for sure that the medium size manufacturing plant that I work at WILL close its doors and move all manufacturing to Mexico, where we already have a plant that has the capacity, if taxes are raised. We are barely hanging on as it is right now in our current economy. 140 more people out of work. Sorry for the rambling, just a lot on my mind. ------------- Boats: Current: 02 SANTE Sold: 89 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: sanity
Date Posted: November-19-2008 at 11:57am
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This entire conversation is very frightening to me. I've been watching it, but stayed away from posting till now.
I look at it a different way, coming from a different view I suppose. Most people would love being employed in a union atmosphere. I would guess that 80 even 90% of the individuals in a union have felt safe and secure up to this point. Which is why I also believe that many union employees voted for Obama. The safety net is under fire right now. Some of them may be forced to live as I do. A single mom of two. A college degree earned and paid for (no discounts). A 7:30 till 5 job Monday through Friday (non-union). Yes, I do receive child support from my ex and the business we built. Although, in construction, cash was passed, and of course the amount is minimal because of that. You see, I could be very, very bitter because of how the system has worked...but I choose not to be. Why? Because I've earned my place. I'm able to take care of myself and my children. No welfare, no discounts. Wouldn't it be great if everyone in the US felt just a little bit that way? Wouldn't it be great to pick up a piece of clothing, a toy or even food in the market and see "made or grown in the US"? We have all become enablers. We all have to buy things we need and we purchase things that we want. We all wish we had a union or governement job with the wonderful wages and comp time. We all give and support other countries when there are so many that "have a need" in our own. |
Posted By: sanity
Date Posted: November-19-2008 at 12:03pm
| I must add that I do not feel we should be giving even more to welfare recipients or individuals that "work the system" to provide for theirselves and their families. Create strict guidelines. |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: November-19-2008 at 12:26pm
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I just get irratated at times, Im exposed to alot of ex-employees of LTV, the big three, and alot of my higher end customers work for the big three...they are the ones who pull up in Corvettes, Shelby mustangs, and they usually are here so i can work on thier 36" Fountains. they are the ones that live in the 300k plus homes. I just cant justify in my mind the money they are pulling from at times a non-skilled job. I am in no way mocking these guy's, everyone has a right to make a living.
a company shouldnt be dicatated by its employees, it is give and take, my most important concerns in business is taking care of my employees and thier families, i dont let them get the upper hand though because it creates tension and you do get that guy who talks out of school and tries to form an alliance with other employees and tries to drive the wages up, its just not profitable and it increases my costs and the consumers costs, we pay our guy's on knowledge and efficiency....if we paid the wages these guy's were pulling from the big three we wouldnt be in business very long. Times are tough recently and i had to go to the bank to make payroll and payments...all that is doing is keeping us afloat, its not a solution to the problem it is merely a wet Band Aid. ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: November-19-2008 at 12:51pm
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If GM (and/or Ford/Chrysler) go under then all these cars we "need" will be purchased elsewhere. With this demand will come growth (jobs) for the likes of Toyota and or Honda. Just look at all the Toyota threads on here and how heated they get. For everyone who is saying all these jobs and income will be lost if GM goes under, then I guess we didn't really need their cars anyhow. ------------- |
Posted By: 05 210
Date Posted: November-19-2008 at 2:25pm
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Just for the record, My opinion of the union is only skin deep. I have never worked for one and I'm sure it has it's benefits.I'm also not "knocking" the average union worker,It's the process as a whole that I disagree with. I know union workers that are very hard workers(most in construction in the city). At some point,you reach the threshold of what you can support,and that has happened in the auto industry. Be it due to the crashing economy or something else,it has happened.
There are lots of car dealers in my area that are small. If Gm starts holding back rebates (which supposedly they have begun to do) they will most likely be gone shortly,as most new car deals are based on available rebates. I know that it will affect my business,as lots of my customers are dealership employees. FWIW, I do not really want to see the industry fail,nor feel the reprocussions that come with it. But, If I needed money to support my business and went to the bank,they would not give it to me without a concrete plan for paying it back. The big three should get their money,but instead of hanging around in D.C. begging for it,they should be putting their heads together and coming up with a concrete plan to do whatever it takes to save their own ass.Once they have a"plan of action to restructure" they should get the money and someone should make sure they're following thru.I am against a "bailout",but forcing the company to fix itself and then lending them the funds to accomplish exactly that, I don't consider to be a "bailout". Getting 25 billion to "tie" you over until people start spending money on cars again is not a "plan". That's my 2 cents,take it for what it's worth. Mike ------------- http:/diaries/details.asp?ID=2219" rel="nofollow - Air Nautique 210 Team 640 hours, not 1 regret |
Posted By: azeus17
Date Posted: November-19-2008 at 2:35pm
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HW-
I was waiting for someone to make that point, but I have to disagree for a few reasons. 1. Assembly jobs are a very small percentage of the jobs involved. Even if Toyota or others wanted to increase their US production from 45% they are at now to 90%, it would take years and years, and it would not make that big of a difference. 2. If Toyota and the like try to pick up where GM/Ford leave off, how long until they are in the same situation? For them to avoid it, we would have to assume that they would not have union labor. With that much growth, do we really think that is possible? If so, why don't we just make it so our current automakers can renegotiate with or break the unions? Here is a link to support my first argument. http://www.forbesautos.com/advice/toptens/all-american-cars/01-top-10-most-patriotic-cars_2.html - Forbes Good read for any interested. ------------- Boats: Current: 02 SANTE Sold: 89 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: azeus17
Date Posted: November-19-2008 at 2:41pm
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I agree with you, Mike. Allow the Big Three to "restructure" without filing bankruptcy. I think by doing that, you could avoid the confidence loss from the public and allow them to continue to sell cars during the restructure. I also believe that part of that restructure needs to be renegotiating with the unions and using non-union labor if neccesary.
Then give them the loans they need. ------------- Boats: Current: 02 SANTE Sold: 89 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: November-19-2008 at 2:43pm
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I would be all for the UAW to step up and renegotiate their contracts but that is not what I'm hearing in the news or reading in the paper. It seems like that is just one part of the problem.
Should it be a surprise to see a company grow so large and not tip over? ------------- |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: November-19-2008 at 2:48pm
Who is or was ever stopping this??? ------------- |
Posted By: behindpropeller
Date Posted: November-19-2008 at 2:52pm
I have a close friend who works for GM and is a UAW worker. He makes more than I do. I am a mechanical engineer. I talked to him the other day. He said that the union was not going to back down on their pay. He also complained that he was not getting a lot of overtime this year. To put it simple... If I was at the helm of GM I would cut my pay by 90% and fire the UAW workers on the spot. Shut down production for a month and get it rolling again on the 1st of the year. There is plenty of product on the lots to tide dealers over until 2009. Jobs would be offered back to union workers at 30% less pay if they were not in the union. All SUVs and trucks would be one color (cost reduction) and they would be available on a limited build basis. ------------- |
Posted By: AbunDiga909
Date Posted: November-20-2008 at 1:23am
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sanity, with all due respect, the amount of people that you say "work the system" not only make up an extremely small percentage, but more importantly, a lot of people that have started to slack of on the job search and have been put in poor situations to begin with are a product of other failed aspects of our government in not giving them a fair or any opportunity at all to begin with.
You make a valid point, and no one wants to give they're money to a lazy bum, but I assure you that the large majority of these people receiving it are in need of it partially due to the government not providing fair enough benefits to begin with. Living on welfare is not a fun life, no one likes it. It takes a lot for someone to decided to rely on it. I was taught by someone who was raised by a single grandmother on welfare. I do not think she was a slacker, and I do not think you would decide to have the gov't give her less of our money had you seen her living conditions... ------------- I Nautique, therefore I am. |
Posted By: sanity
Date Posted: November-20-2008 at 10:54am
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Austin,
I don't think the government should have to "give" anything under most circumstances. I would agree that a single grandmother raising her grandchild should receive help. Unless something terrible happened to the childs parents, a grandmother should not have to raise her grandchildren. I'm sure this is something that was not planned. If I lost my job tomorrow I would have unemployment available to me until I found another job. Would I take advantage of the unemployment and take a little vacation? Heck no! I have a family to take care of. You can bet I would be out there searching for something. If I had to move, I move. I do think alot of people take advantage of the system. I also think that prices are only going to raise on food, fuel and necessities. Children and adults need healthcare. Should the government also give free healthcare to everyone? No choices...nothing to worry about, right? Austin, what do you think the government "should" provide? Chelle' |
Posted By: 05 210
Date Posted: November-20-2008 at 11:18am
And what opportunity is the govt. supposed to give these people Austin? I diagree with your statement and I think that is the problem with alot of these people.They think someone owes them or someone failed them.Before you jump on me for that assumption I want to tell you a story. When I was 3 years old, my father passed away from M.S. My mom was raising 3 kids and working 2 jobs to try to keep us fed & pay the mortgage.We also recieved assistance from the govt. because she could not make ends meet. We did not talk about it,and neither did any of the neighbors,etc.Back then people were proud,and busted their ass,and only took a handout if it was their only option.As soon as she got us back on our feet,she stopped taking assistance.She probably could have quit one job and stayed on the program,but that wasn't her style. Nowadays,people are just plain lazy.They do whatever they can to beat the system.If you need a job,and McDonald's is the only place to get one,then that's were you work. I believe most people are not like my mother and your friend's grandmother,and unfortunately if people keep screwing the system,someday there will be no assistance for people who REALLY need it. End of rant Mike ------------- http:/diaries/details.asp?ID=2219" rel="nofollow - Air Nautique 210 Team 640 hours, not 1 regret |
Posted By: azeus17
Date Posted: November-20-2008 at 11:30am
What I was really getting at was renegotiating union contracts. From what I heard yesterday, the unions are not even interested in negotiation. Can they really be so stubborn to cut off their nose just to spite their face? Do they really think that if the big 3 go down Toyota and Honda are going to pick them up and pay them the same? ------------- Boats: Current: 02 SANTE Sold: 89 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: November-20-2008 at 1:01pm
And for that I hope they go under. Sorry James. ------------- |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: November-20-2008 at 2:17pm
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just remember, you cant negotiate if you dont have a job, when they are standing outside looking in thier minds will change as did with the steel workers. I know alot of ex LTV employees and if you ask them right now if it was possible to have thier jobs back for half of what they were earning when they lost thier jobs the answer is yes. after thoughts from these guy's is that the unions protected them fearlessly but they also lost thier jobs because of the unions
Im not a union buster, but i really dont think with todays laws they are needed ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: AbunDiga909
Date Posted: November-20-2008 at 3:56pm
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Look, I don't like giving money to lazy bums either. No one does. That't not what its all about though.
I just had a long post and I accidentally quit out of firefox, so right now im annoyed. sorry if this doesnt' flow too well... I really respect your mother and all of what she went through to raise you. But, unfortunately, not everyone was lucky enough to have such a good mother. If a mother, or father, grandmother, grandfather, etc, are dumb with their lives and become lazy and need welfare, yea, no one will want to give it to them. They will be the ones that don't deserve our money. But, if they have kids, I dont believe that that child should live a bad childhood and be raised poorly just because their father, mother, etc was an idiot. I want the government to make it possible so that that child can get a good education in a good environment in a safe neighborhood and not be subjected to their parents bad habits if need be. If that child needs extra attention or something to grow, and that need cannot be met for financial reasons, than yea i think that the dumb parent should get the money for his/her child. In a nutshell, I don't think kids born into bad environments should have to live ***************ty lives just b/c someone they had some relation with were idiots. That's what I mean when i say the govt needs to give an equal, or fair, opportunity. There is no single program or number I can say the govt "should" give--it all varies situation to situation. But as of today, there are many kids dropping out of school b/c of bad environment, dangerous societies, etc., b/c the gov't also isnt putting enough money into the community and schools etc... Thats also part of giving the child a fair opportunity to succeed. Sorry if that sounds socialist, but where I come from, it is not fair that some kids dont even get the CHANCE to use their brains because they cant afford this or that or the school is to weak financially--that's just wrong. Too many smart minds go to waste in this country, esp in urban areas, due to kids not getting the care/support they need and deserve.. Austin ------------- I Nautique, therefore I am. |
Posted By: reidp
Date Posted: November-20-2008 at 4:09pm
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I should probably keep my mouth shut on this union thing, but it's a good open forum, so I'll throw my two cents in. Re-negotiate? Sorry guys if it's displeasing to some us here, but aren't we really past the need for the UAW and other unions in this time in history, and based off good points above? Check out this article on a Toyota plant in KY, and tell me what the UAW is doing for the USA as a whole and esp for the auto industry.
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/01/31/toyota-workers-in-us-made-more-than-uaw-members-for-first-time-l/ - http://www.autoblog.com/2007/01/31/toyota-workers-in-us-made-more-than-uaw-members-for-first-time-l/ Someone may say that because the Yota workers were paid more you would still have an issue with labor costs without the union at a US owned plant. There are additional costs associated with the typical union organization that cost an employer. And there's also that issue that might pop up about job security and having someone protect the employees rights. I can't buy it as I've always felt that the best way to earn the most pay and maintain security and rights is to do a spectacular job, and make yourself indespensable. That Toyota worker had better work his butt off as he knows his job is not secure unless he does, and that's the way it should be. While I'm a smaller shop of 15, we certainly couldn't compete if we were unionized. I never promise our new or existing employees the highest hourly rate, but I do promise them that if they exceed expectations, which generally results in higher company margins and profits, then they will see bonuses which put them ahead of competitors' employees with higher hrly rates. If they do average work, they'll be paid on average, and if not happy with that, they're asked to leave or are eventually released when the better worker comes along. I'm done. ------------- ReidP /diaries/details.asp?ID=231&yrstart=1971&yrend=1975 - 1973 Mustang |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: November-20-2008 at 4:10pm
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I wonder how much money should be put into parenting/parents?
The answer is none because it isn't needed. The word parent carries a definition. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: sanity
Date Posted: November-20-2008 at 4:30pm
Austin, I understand your argument and frustration regarding children. It's not the childs fault. They are innocent. But, I feel that this is why we have social workers. I also disagree with the No Child Left Behind. My son is in the Honors classes. If he would ever have a problem with math, at this point I can't help him. He's passed me. So, I find someone that can. The school reaches out to the children that are not doing so well. They have to meet state standards or the school will not be issued a high amount of grant money. More teachers "are" avaiable to the children you have described. Again, I feel that my kids are punished by this. We need more teachers. I understand that people are not created equally and children have few choices. But I also do not feel that we can be responsible for all of these kids. The schools should not be raising our children either. A specialist is trained in their feild of study. I would not choose to see a doctor if I only heard bad things about him just to give him a chance. Yet, we have children being raised by parents that are not "specialists" in parenting. Do we take their license away? Who gives us the right? How would the government ensure that money being issued for a child will be used for the childs benefit? Especially if they still live in a home containing a poor environment. There is no possible way to solve this that I can think of. |
Posted By: 05 210
Date Posted: November-20-2008 at 5:01pm
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Austin,
I echo Sanitys statement.I appreciate the fact that you would like to see the world be a better place.Unfortunately,there really is no fix for those type of problems other than trying to keep irresponsible parents from breeding  . Hopefully,kids with half a brain in those areas will not want to end up like their parents and will stay out of trouble long enough for them to be able to choose their own destiny. I also believe that the opportunity for those kids to be something in the future really does exist,but most of them choose the path of least resistance,which ultimately leads to nowhere.
I think we've threadjacked the original topic moreso than some care to read.Let's move on,shall we? How 'bout those GIANTS! 
Mike ------------- http:/diaries/details.asp?ID=2219" rel="nofollow - Air Nautique 210 Team 640 hours, not 1 regret |
Posted By: AbunDiga909
Date Posted: November-20-2008 at 5:26pm
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Haha, true statement. This is slightly off topic, but one last word...
I also really do see your points, and they are totally legitimate. But the last thing I can say is, at least from what I've seen and grown up around, the primary reason some kids choose the path of least resistance is due to a flaw in the environment which they've been raised thus far, which could have been prevented (or at least delayed) by further government involvement/funding in some aspects of their lives and/or the community. I do not think the government can solve everything, but there are some problems so big that only the government can help/cure, and thus I see it as one of its responsibilities. I know you've all heard this before and this is just a talking point, but you wont find any homeless people on the streets of Sweden... Sorry bout Brady, thats unfortunate (for you ) but i do hope he recovers obviously. I also find it funny that our two biggest wins last year were against teams that no longer have their superstar QB. the pats and, still cant believe it, but farve is a jet? for once, both my teams are doing well...
So yeah, tough loss last thursday...  ------------- I Nautique, therefore I am. |
Posted By: behindpropeller
Date Posted: November-20-2008 at 5:27pm
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A Modern Parable. Right, wrong or otherwise. I think it's close.
A Japanese company (Toyota) and an American company (Ford Motor) decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race. On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile. The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate the reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action. Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person steering, while the American team had 7 people steering and 2 people rowing. Feeling a deeper study was in order; American management hired a consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion. They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat, while not enough people were rowing. Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent another loss to the Japanese, the rowing team's management structure was totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 2 area steering superintendents and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager. They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 2 people rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the 'Rowing Team Quality First Program,' with meetings, dinners and free pens for the rowers. There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes and other equipment, extra vacation days for practices and bonuses. The pension program was trimmed to 'equal the competition' and some of the resultant savings were channeled into morale boosting programs and teamwork posters. The next year the Japanese won by two miles. Humiliated, the American management laid-off one rower, halted development of a new canoe, sold all the paddles, and canceled all capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses. The next year, try as he might, the lone designated rower was unable to even finish the race (having no paddles,) so he was laid off for unacceptable performance, all canoe equipment was sold and the next year's racing team was out-sourced to India. Sadly, the End. ------------- |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: November-20-2008 at 5:31pm
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Woo Hooo!!! LOL
Edit-That was a knee jerk reaction to Tim's post... They could always susidise a few other teams so they could compete! ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: November-21-2008 at 10:27am
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are we starting to realize how imporatant it is to buy within our boundries? unions aside, poor quality aside, the auto industry is 1 part of a puzzle and one part of a wheel, the effects of the business end is showing its face and the outcome isnt so good,
------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: tullfooter
Date Posted: November-21-2008 at 11:06am
Alan You are correct on the Sec 179 issue, but that situation is new, with the economy stimulas package recently put together. It will change drastically next year. Kind of ironic, I was at the Ford/Sterling dealer yesterday, getting parts for one of my trucks (an '86 Ford Semi), and the salesman that I deal with was begging me to buy a new Semi-tractor at $105K, which is a huge deal. The same truck, in February, was priced at $126K. I told Mike, the salesman, that even if I was in the position to buy a new truck, I would wait until after Jan 1 because businesses are going to need all the tax deductions they can get, next year. Steve P.S. I can't believe it took this long, in the talks with the Big 3, to bring up elimination of the JOBS BANK. The jobs bank has to be the biggest joke in all of business. ------------- Play hard, life's not a trial run. '85 BFN '90 BFN White Lake, Michigan |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: November-21-2008 at 12:58pm
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im talking the other day to a guy who works in PA and builds Locomotives, I cant remember the company..maybe EMD, but he went on to tell me that it wont be long until the Chinese start building them, I have no conception on why this company sold the rights to the Chinese to build the Locomotives. what is going to be left in this country? these are the times we will be telling our grandchildren about and mark my words its going to get worse, I try to be optimistic but cant, it just seems that we are at the beginning of everything falling apart. ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: behindpropeller
Date Posted: November-21-2008 at 2:49pm
They don't sell the rights. The Chinese get a product, reverse engineer it and then make it chaeper and sell it. They are doing it with everything....see all of those 4 wheelers for kids??....Chinese junk. Until we decide to buy quality over price we will shoot ourself in the foot. Ever shop at Harbor frieght??? ------------- |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: November-21-2008 at 3:55pm
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I think we we say sell the rights it also includes selling the prints to manufacture thus no reverse engineering needed. and no i dont shop at Harber Frieght, I try to practice what I preach
And my bumper sticker will say, Dont blame me I bought American. lol I believe in the 6 degrees of seperation, If i could get one person to change thier minds about buying an American car and then he can get one person to buy an American car. hopefully my Grand Kids someday will be looking up chanting the Star Spangled Banner ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 05 210
Date Posted: November-21-2008 at 4:13pm
Yeah, those things are garbage. Those Chinese scooters people keep buying are no better. Mike ------------- http:/diaries/details.asp?ID=2219" rel="nofollow - Air Nautique 210 Team 640 hours, not 1 regret |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: November-21-2008 at 4:22pm
Eric, was this an admission of something?
I agree about the statement regarding quality- Im usually willing to pay more for something thats built better and going to last. That holds true for my Dewalt buffer, Craftsman and Snap On tools, Correct Craft boat, and yes, even my Toyota truck. ------------- |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: November-21-2008 at 4:29pm
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That was supposed to read "poor quality (argument) aside" ------------- |
Posted By: Waterdog
Date Posted: November-21-2008 at 4:53pm
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So now that the American water is rough with the banks and cars,what's the next big log hiding under the chop we are going to hit next week? Rubber shortage? Battery shortage? Massive power outage? Iran ? What's the next big thing??? I need a drink!...
Alcohol shortage? ------------- - waterdog - http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3896&sort=&pagenum=2&yrstart=1978&yrend=1978" rel="nofollow - 78 Ski Tique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: November-21-2008 at 5:34pm
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No Timmy, I'll argue till im blue in the face about the qaulity of cars, they are neck and neck these days, the only difference is when you need a fuel pump for a toyo its 800.00 compared to an american car at 400.00.
I dont fall into the foriegn cars are better persona. If i asked 100,000,000,000 people why they think a foriegn car is better they dont have an answer for me, thats because they dont have an answer, I work on them I have an answer. its all what you believe my friend....I have yet to be stranded in an American car in the last 20 years. If I asked what the best boat is on this site obviously the answer will be Correct Crafts even though Mastercrafts and Malibus' came along way the last 20 years and along with them came the qaulity ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: November-21-2008 at 5:39pm
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BTW, I was using the poor qaulity statement as a statement on why everyone is not buying US cars. now if it was a "k" car i would have to agree with you lol ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: tullfooter
Date Posted: November-21-2008 at 6:00pm
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Eric
I've always owned American cars, and I hope to always own American cars, but I currently own a 2004 Eddie Bauer Expedition. This has been the worse car I have ever owned. Rear end replaced twice (within the first 13,000 miles), headliner removed three times to repair the moon roof guts (the first time, the dealer said the "screws were not tightened"), and the electrical system has never been right. My 2007 Avalanche is going through 2qts of oil between oil changes, which I don't think is right. These are quality issues that don't strand somebody, but are a pain in the A$$. I do have a 2000 Jeep Wrangler with 180,000 miles that runs sweet. Steve ------------- Play hard, life's not a trial run. '85 BFN '90 BFN White Lake, Michigan |
Posted By: 05 210
Date Posted: November-21-2008 at 6:04pm
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I like the recent Ford commercials on tv that say "with quality now equal to Toyota". So they basically openly admit that it never was before . It would be interesting to get James Bragg's thoughts on this UAW deal.Hopefully he and his family will come out of this mess ok . Haven't seen him post on here in awhile.
Mike ------------- http:/diaries/details.asp?ID=2219" rel="nofollow - Air Nautique 210 Team 640 hours, not 1 regret |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: November-21-2008 at 6:24pm
Oh boy, youre calling me Timmy just like Chris does- maybe poking the hive is deserving of being treated like an 8 year old.
I work on my own cars too, Eric- and I research the hell out of everything, especially big purchases. Ill admit that American cars have come a long ways, though Im not sure Id say theyre there yet. I do like the idea of buying American, but my money will continue to go towards the highest quality products that best suit my needs, while staying within my budget. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree! ------------- |
Posted By: sanity
Date Posted: November-21-2008 at 6:47pm
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MILWAUKEE (AP) - Foodmaker H.J. Heinz Co. said Friday that strong sales of products such as Ore-Ida frozen potatoes and frozen meals boosted fiscal second-quarter profit by 22 percent as cash-strapped consumers cooked more meals at home.
Home-cooked meal???? 
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Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: November-21-2008 at 8:36pm
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I put a cradle in a toyota today, my thoughts are if you look under these cars you cant tell the difference, they are pretty much the same...the door was real tinny sounding though. Sorry TIM,
I go through it constantly with my family and i to once thought they were a better built car and they were, but when i corner someone and ask them why is a foriegn car better than an American car, they cant answer me. It seems the big three have some marketing problems in my eyes, but i think they are catching on with statements such as "qaulity now equal to Toyota" as i said i dont care what someone drives and i have yet to hear someone pull me aside and say, ERIC this is why foriegn cars are better, i thiink maybe thats the point im trying to get across. plus it helps the economy and gives my fellow brothers the money to buy those 70k nautiques ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |