CO2 horn conversion
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Discription: Anything Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13237
Printed Date: October-31-2024 at 9:27pm
Topic: CO2 horn conversion
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Subject: CO2 horn conversion
Date Posted: April-05-2009 at 3:21pm
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In Michell's (sanity) thread http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13101&KW=CO2 - I have a horn , we discussed the old air horns that used a disposable cartridge of Freon to drive them. Since these larger Freon cylinders are no longer available, (the Freon tank about the size of a propane torch tank) it got me going on investigating long overdue alternates. I haven't had a horn it at least 5 years!!
The air compressor and tank method always bothered me. Besides being expensive (about $400 plus) I never liked the idea of driving along and hearing a air compressor start up and run under the bow deck of the boat ether. They also draw around 18 amps - although the on time to build up the pressure after a couple of horn bows is only about a minute, that 18 is a lot for our older boats with small alternators. Looking into both a small bottle of nitrogen and CO2 I decided on the CO2 because it's a liquid and when it converts to a gas it's about twice the volume (cu. ft.) as the nitrogen - I don't want to be changing that bottle very often!! The 5lb. cylinder of CO2 I calculated out to be about triple the volume as the old Freon depending on the temperature. Both CO2 and nitrogen however do require pressure regulation. the air horns run on a nominal 100PSI. This regulation requirement was the reason the Freon were used - R12 depending on the temp has a vapor pressure just over the 100psi. 5lb. CO2 tank under bow deck 
Regulator, solenoid and mounting to bow lifting ring down rod 
Tank base 
The 5lb aluminum CO2 tank I found new on ebay for $48.00 If you find used, it will be cheaper but be careful with the expiration date for tank hydro testing. Buying used isn't bad because when you have it filled, typically you will get another tank and not yours anyway. I went to my welding gas supplier and the 5lbs of CO2 was $15.00 I did some testing on shop compressed air and found the horn to be very happy at 100psi. Below about 80psi, the horn diaphragm (it makes the noise) has a problem even vibrating. The regulator needed is the higher pressure type used on soda gun systems. They will be adjustable for a low pressure max of about 160lbs. Beer CO2 regulators max out (blows the safety valve) at only 55psi and will not work. I got my regulator from a friend but did shop on ebay and saw them going for as low as 28.00 used and 49.00 new (buy it now price) Well, now it's off to get a new solenoid valve. I found out my old one leaks! Not surprising being 45 years old! Probably the reason that 30lb tank of reclaim freon leaked out 5 years ago!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Replies:
Posted By: 62 wood
Date Posted: April-05-2009 at 10:22pm
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Pete,
Ive been checking and I dont think that CO2 tank is the original style?!?! 
...........gotta get even when we get a chance! Actually, that looks like a pretty cool way to power an air horn! Obviously, depending on how often you use the horn, how long do you think the tank will last? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1117&sort=&pagenum=6" rel="nofollow - 64 American Skier 62 Classic.. 73 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: April-05-2009 at 10:31pm
Yeah Pete, that's not going in your Dunphy is it? ------------- |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-05-2009 at 11:00pm
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Steve and Bruce,
Yes it IS mounted in the X55 and NO it isn't original!!! I really don't have to rationalize this because the Freon tanks are no longer available and this is as close to original as you can get - acceptable practice! It's still a gas powering the ORIGINAL air horn and it certainly isn't a air compressor with a surge tank. I can safely say that no points would be deducted with this method in a ACBS event!! I'd question a compressor set up. Hard to say how much life or blows I'll get. The last Freon tank I had lasted 2 summers and as mentioned the CO2 is 3 times the volume. Knowing I have that tank under there, I may be inclined to blow the horn more often?? I'll see what happens! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 62 wood
Date Posted: April-05-2009 at 11:36pm
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Pete,
Did they use freon tanks in factory installations of horns,/ what "generations"? I've seen a couple of types of power sources... My 68 cuda has an under-dash compressor, which I have no reason to believe wouldn't have been original to that horn. Have you seen these? The other is the "bicycle-pump" type that is still in it's original box. btw, you know Im just ribbing you on the tank... I am going to check that out myself...Looks like a great option! ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1117&sort=&pagenum=6" rel="nofollow - 64 American Skier 62 Classic.. 73 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: M3Fan
Date Posted: April-06-2009 at 12:24am
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A setup like that makes me start thinking about adding an outrageously loud horn to the rig for no good reason other than it being outrageously loud. And, a loud horn might just save somebody's life on the water!
Here's some inspiration- these guys specialize in putting http://www.hornblasters.com/video.php?pic=40 - train horns into cars. ------------- 2000 SN GT40 w/99 Graphics/Gel 2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI https://forum.fifteenoff.com |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: April-06-2009 at 1:15am
Everyone will say there goes Pete, he's blowing his own horn ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
8122pbrainard wrote:Posted By: Brady
Date Posted: April-06-2009 at 9:54am
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Steve,
My 69 Barracuda has the same setup as yours, and has worked without fail, or fill up for as long as I can remember. Freon was used in factory installations for some years in the 60's and well into the 70's. Thats what powered the hand held air horns that many boaters used. I remember my father had a freon powered contraption that pre chilled martini glasses before use! ------------- Charlie Three Lakes, Wisconsin 69 Barracuda |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-13-2009 at 5:15pm
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It works!!! Fantastic!!!
The delay in getting it tested was replacing the original solenoid valve. When I hooked it up I found the 45 year old valve leaking. Probably where the 2 - 30lb tanks of reclaim Freon went to that I had hooked up to it!! I couldn't hear the leak with the hose to the horn hooked up. I ended up getting a aluminum body valve from Buell (the air horn manufacturer) figuring it would be best suited for flow and shut off ability. I'll still shut off the tank valve when not using the boat. Now, the true test will to see if my calculations are correct on the usage I'll get out of 15lbs of CO2. I'll make sure I go under plenty of bridges this summer so I have a reason to blow it. I'll keep track of the blows!! BTW, the pressure regulator is set to 100psi. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: sanity
Date Posted: April-13-2009 at 5:34pm
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Pete,
We need to put you on a television show. Mythbusters? Maybe we need to make a new program just for you! You are so intelligent! Michelle ------------- |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: July-01-2015 at 1:19pm
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bump for bill ------------- |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-04-2020 at 2:06pm
I thought I'd report that the 5 lb. CO@ still has plenty in it after 11 years. Deduct 7 for the X55 being laid up and that makes it 4 years of usage. So, I'm happy that I didn't go with the air compressor surge tank retrofit. I'll have to crawl under the deck and take a look at the gauge to see how much is actually in it. I had expected some leakage through the years but evidently that solenoid valve held tight and I didn't even shut the tank valve 7 years ago.  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-05-2020 at 7:26am
So if you haven't looked at the gauge, how do you know there's plenty left in it ? Maybe you honked the horn twice and now the bottle's only got one more last dying gasp of a honk left in it You should probably check the hydro date too while you're crawling under there |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-05-2020 at 4:29pm
Ken, Well, I learned something today. You can't tell what's in the tank by looking at the pressure gauge. The CO2 will vaporize and develop the indicated pressure by what the temperature is. So, shot the tank with the IR, it indicated 84 degrees and per the chart sure enough the pressure is at 1005 PSI. The only way to find out how much is still in the tank is by weight or as you mentioned just keep using it. BTW, I'm not going to pull it just to get the weight. It was enough of a problem just crawling under the deck to take a look!! Yes, the hydro is due but that per the regulations will happen at the next refill. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: July-05-2020 at 8:43pm
You should be good for maybe 20 more years of "honkin" according to this guy
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