And so it begins...
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13341
Printed Date: November-18-2024 at 7:48pm
Topic: And so it begins...
Posted By: gun-driver
Subject: And so it begins...
Date Posted: April-15-2009 at 12:47am
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More horse power for your motor…$1,500
Supplies for new stringers…….$1,000 Having your wife approve buying more tools to do the job….PRICELESS!!!! So it begins, I took the motor out for the new heads, camshafts, high rise manifold ect. (Thanks Eric, He was tired of working those crappy Chevy’s so I gave him a nice Ford to work on) While the motor was out I kept thinking about the stringers. Now my floor was solid no soft spots, the main stringers sounded solid (tapping with hammer) but the secondary’s had some fiberglass cracking off. The wood was solid when poked with a screwdriver, but I thought to myself I can’t be the only one with a 24 year old boat that is dry and solid. So out came the carpet in one piece (that one surprised me) then off came the floor for some exploratory surgery. Sure enough the foam was soaked on the bottom inch or so and dry on top. The more foam I pulled out the more water I found. Now this boat hasn’t been in the water since Sept last year, it did get some snow melt in it when the cover got 12” of snow on it then rain caused it to sag in and the water got in. So as with others the foam was soaked. Then I started removing the fiberglass from the secondary stringers. I was pleasantly surprised that only where the glass had separated was the wood only slightly wet the rest looked like new. I love Correct Crafts that’s why I own two, but I have to say that they could have done a better job then they did. I found a block of wood lying on the hull and the foam poured right over top of it, of course it was totally saturated. The second thing I found was when they lagged the platform braces on they missed the area supported with the extra plywood. I assume that’s where they where supposed to go. The third was the original fiberglass wrap on the secondary’s under the floor was paper thin. (One coat of light weight glass) So this is step one of the process. I will keep you guy’s updated as I go. I hope it will be a short story not a novel !! The start 
The easy way to remove foam 
The lags between the extra ply(above the stringer) 
The thin fiberglass 
This is the inboard side ofthe stringer. It doesn't even touch the hull and the gap was full of wet foam. 
Here's the block of wood they foamed over. 
That's it for now more to follow. |
Replies:
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-15-2009 at 2:30am
that foam came out neatly!!! keep us updated with your progress ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: Morfoot
Date Posted: April-15-2009 at 7:30am
HEY! That's where I left that block of wood.  ------------- "Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman" |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-15-2009 at 10:02am
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Paul,
I'm glad you dug into the boat farther and are taking on this project. I feel it's common for someone to feel his stringers are in good shape just because they are still solid. It's really not the case and the reason I always suggest using a hole saw to remove the glass in as many spots as possible to take a look. The dark staining of the wood and the delamination of the glass are classic indicators of rot but just not to the point of the wood falling apart. The water has been in there. The rot has started but then the wood dried out below the point it would support the rot. The rot spores are still there just waiting for more moisture to start up again. Keep the pictures coming. Nice work on the foam! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-15-2009 at 10:36am
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I thought this was a topic about a boat sinking ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: ryanowen
Date Posted: April-15-2009 at 11:43am
I'm looking at just about the exact same thing as you on my 88. I'm laughing about the block of wood. I found several scraps in my foam, including the exact same piece you pictured here in the exact same spot. I also have the paper thin glass on the secondaries. There is about 6 inch section on the one below the drivers seat with no glass on one side at all! Good luck! ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3284 - 1988 Ski Nautique |
gun-driver wrote:Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: April-15-2009 at 11:50am
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guess I finally see the purpose of foam; to hide the workmanship. ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: April-15-2009 at 12:02pm
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I still can't believe this wood crap continued on through 1993. For the life of me I can't see how it took them 10 years to catch up with their main competition and eliminate it altogether. For having such a good reputation for a well built boat they sure got by with slipping a lot under the rug(or foam). ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: WakeSlayer
Date Posted: April-15-2009 at 12:49pm
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I cannot believe how nicely the foam came out... Mine was brutal to remove. ------------- Mike N 1968 Mustang |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: April-15-2009 at 1:35pm
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I would use CPES on the stringers now and refoam and glass over the bad spots. Looks like you caught it early so getting the water out drying it out a little more then going back with the CPES well seal everything back up and make it a little stronger, then your ready to pour more foam and glass the floor back in. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: April-15-2009 at 1:54pm
That's exactly what I'm going to do but there's NO FOAM going back in this boat!!!! I'm going to add some extra support instead of foam. I don't believe that we can make these things water tight enough to keep the foam dry. I have an idea on a way to do a partial foam though that should let the foam breath which should allow it to dry when it gets wet. I'll post pic's of the mock up in a few days. That way I can get some input from the ol'wise one's on here. |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: April-15-2009 at 3:39pm
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Thought all you need to do is use closed cell foam and it wasn't an issue (water absorbtion). Tim had mentioned on another thread that it is needed for structural support, granted you sound like you adding some extra supports but it might just be easier and quicker to do the right type of foam instead. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: KFD14
Date Posted: April-15-2009 at 5:46pm
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I had that same "scrap" peice of wood in mine. Any chance they put it there for some unknown reason. Haven't dug into the other side yet, is it there also? ------------- %20http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4380" rel="nofollow - 83 2001 SN |
Posted By: sanity
Date Posted: April-15-2009 at 6:37pm
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Paul,
You are moving along! When did you have sunshine? I'm not that far away and I'm ready to build an ark. I found change under the foam. Of course I saved them all, as they were "original" 60's cents. I have to keep an eye on your progress and see what your idea is for foam. I do not want to put the foam back in the mustang either. My plan is to use the pool noodles. Chelle' Hey...I just thought of something. Is this why I own the 82 now ???  ------------- |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: April-15-2009 at 6:44pm
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Yall just wait until it's back like it should be. 20 years is hard on most things, and my bet is that you'll get a ride you won't believe after it's all said and done.
------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: Fl Inboards
Date Posted: April-15-2009 at 6:50pm
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Hi their.
After working and being part of the design team at CC for the last 18 years the statement of the foam is a structural support is an un true. The Foam is a means for the hull to pass specific requirements that is imposed upon the manufacturer so that it will float if swamped and or extreemly damaged. To use the foam as support mechanism for items like the floor or bulkheads is more the norm. I personally do not put foam back in restringered boats that have wood componets such as Main or secondary stringers. Fiberglass is porous and will retain water in foamed in places. I have been pushing the Coosa products for all structural replacement such as Floors and secondary stringers. look into it I think you will be suprised at what you will find. Great product. Glad to see the wood stringers and other componets in your project in decent shape. Correct Crafts are and were built tough. ------------- Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise. 1993 Shamrock "fat" 20. 2008 Nautique 196 5.0 |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: April-15-2009 at 10:47pm
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I am going to add some additional support for two reasons.
1) To add a little more support from the secondary to the hull wall. Hoping it will help fend off those pesky stress cracks. 2) Without the foam I'll need something to help support the floor. As for the flotation controversy, if it's sealed water tight it will create air pockets which will aid in the floating. There is a lot of foam in the top of the stern, bow and under the gunnel's. I think rot is more of a problem than sinking. And if it would sink hell that's what I pay insurance for. |
Posted By: ryanowen
Date Posted: April-16-2009 at 12:25am
With your Coosa replacements, how are you supporting the floor? Do you have some pics of your builds? I read through JoeinNY's build thread and he added ribs out to the hull wall. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3284 - 1988 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-16-2009 at 12:31pm
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you always have to go back to the root of the cause, it was never meant for structure in a CC but may have been utilized as part of the structure because it was drawn up around the foam, it may have been a bonus for structure but thats it. the bad outweighs the good, these different opinions will help you decide your boats destiny., if i have a triple by-pass im gonna stay away from Mc Donalds. ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: April-16-2009 at 11:45pm
| There's nothing that could keep me from Mickey dee's. |
Posted By: storm34
Date Posted: April-17-2009 at 1:40am
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Gun-Driver,
Your re-build looks very clean compared to my two boats! Your foam came out very clean, unlike the baseball size chunks I pulled out! What tool did you use to remove the floor from the hull of the boat. I have been hacking away with a circular saw but am not able to get close to the sides. How itchy have you been the last few days? I've got the stuff between my fingers and it's driving me CRAZY!!! ------------- |
Posted By: WakeSlayer
Date Posted: April-17-2009 at 1:51am
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I usded a 7" cordless circular to cut my glass floor away from the sides. I left an inch or two around the edge. Later on, I took a sawzall along the hull, flexing a long, fine-toothed blade. It took a very clean cut and removed the remaining strip almost perfectly. ------------- Mike N 1968 Mustang |
Posted By: ryanowen
Date Posted: April-17-2009 at 11:17am
I've been using a diamond blade on my angle grinder and my dremel for tight spots. Zips right through, just need to be careful with it. Really haven't been itching much at all though. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3284 - 1988 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: April-17-2009 at 12:03pm
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I used a circular along the sides with a guide set at about 2". Set the blade so it just barely goes through the glass.(be very careful toward the rear as the hull comes in under the floor about two inches. (DON'T CUT TO DEEP IN THE BACK)
Along the stringer and in the round corner in the rear, I used my metabo 4" grinder with a diamond blade and again just cut deep enough to cut the glass. Then a thin pry bar and a block of wood to pry off. Floor came off in one piece because I was going to re-glass it back down. With the foam I used the hand saw to cut along the sides all the way to the bottom then again using the flat pry bar pried it out in blocks, it even worked in the small gap between the two one-bys of the stringer. |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: April-19-2009 at 1:02pm
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Day two on the '85 floor project. The port side seemed drier than the other but that could be due to the fact that the sun hits that side.
Floor off on the port side. 
The wood up front was in good condition. 
I think the design flaw lies in the battery box area. The bulk head where the hoses came through was like a dam. Everything in that area was completely saturated. That area will be redesigned when I put it back together. 
I was wondering how I got stress cracks when my stringers were in good shape?? Then I saw where the floor separated from the wall exactly where the stress cracks are. I think that the stress cracks are caused more by floor separation than soft stringers. 
So after two day's at about four hours a day this is where the projects stands. 
Oh I can't forget about my little helper. She loves getting to use her tool belt. 
She's helping cut out the foam. 
More to follow. |
Posted By: 79TiqueRebuild
Date Posted: April-19-2009 at 6:12pm
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Now we know who actually got the foam to come out so nice. Your little helper with her saw...
The job looks real good I'm taking notes. |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: April-21-2009 at 7:31pm
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A couple quick questions for the stringer/boat guru's.
1) Can I use the 635 3:1 epoxy to laminate boards together. 2)Would it be better to use maple instead of pine for the addional supports I'm putting in. 3)Would it be better to use 1x8's like original for the front floor, instead of 3/4 plywood. I would think plywood would absorb water more than regular dimensional lumber. That's it for now . My CPES should be here Thur. so hope to start coating the existing stringers where needed this weekend. |
Posted By: WakeSlayer
Date Posted: April-21-2009 at 8:01pm
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I cannot believe how clean your daughter can get foam out. Wish she was around when I did mine. Must be her saw.
For adhering boards together I put some high density filler in the epoxy, to the consistency of peanut butter. I used West, but whichever you are using will have something like that. i think for the secondaries and support boards it is ok to use other wood besides the fir. However, I did use fir on all of mine. Once you epoxy and CPES the plywood it should prevent water absorption entirely. There seems to be a beer in only two of your photos. This will not do. ------------- Mike N 1968 Mustang |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: April-23-2009 at 12:06am
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Slayer,
I'm not replacing any of the stringers they're all fine I just need to grind off the loose glass, coat with CPES and re-glass them with heavier glass than from the factory. What my plan is to put ribs in from the secondaries out to where the floor meets the walls. I'm doing this because I'm not putting foam back in and the bottom doesn't seem to be as thick as in between the main stringers. Also I will need support for the floor. I plan on using 1/4" luan wrapped in glass for the new floor. I just thought maple would be a little stronger than pine for the ribs and more resistant to future moisture. |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: April-24-2009 at 12:49pm
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Well the first of my supplies arrived yesterday, the CPES. I purchased it from Rot Doctor it was about $30 cheaper than Jamestown and arrived in two day's.
Hopefully the weather will hold out for me this weekend and I can grind the loose glass off the existing stringers and start applying the CPES. More to come... |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-24-2009 at 4:24pm
Paul, I'm concerned with the 1/4" giving you the rigidity even being wrapped with glass. Glass laying "in the flat" unless it's quite thick really isn't that stiff. Without any foam, I feel you will end up with a springy floor even with the extra support. I don't feel you will be gaining any rot resistence with using Maple. In fact, it may be worse because the CPES I don't feel will soak in to the depth like it will on Fir. You can use it if you have it but it will be slightly heavier. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: September-06-2009 at 7:44pm
All right I'm back at it on the '85 restoration. The new garage took up a lot of my time this summer but here's some updated pic's of the progress.
Old stringers 
One side roughed in 
Second side going in 
The sides are cut to allow water to escape no foam going back in. 
Some of the goodies that went in to the motor 
More to follow on the floor and I'll post more pic's of the motor progress tomorrow |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: September-06-2009 at 9:13pm
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looking good!!! are you going to use ply as floor? ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: Luchog
Date Posted: September-06-2009 at 10:41pm
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those are a really a NICE set of exhaust manifolds there!!!!
How's that engine set up? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2095" rel="nofollow - 1980 Ski Nautique Commander 351W |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: September-07-2009 at 11:00am
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Kapala
I'm going to use 1/4" luan plywood with glass on both sides. Lunch, The motor has a high rise manifold, heads with some work done to them, SS feira 1.94/1.60, .600" lift springs, scorpion 1.6:1 rollers, custom ground cam from Cam Research and the Edelbrock exhaust. The lower end has been gone over, honed and scoped the cylinders new rings and bearings |
Posted By: Luchog
Date Posted: September-07-2009 at 1:11pm
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stock heads or GTs? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2095" rel="nofollow - 1980 Ski Nautique Commander 351W |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: September-07-2009 at 1:53pm
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They're D00E heads with the larger valves, they are from the '69 - '70's era.
D00E Specs: 60cc Chambers 1.84" Intake Valves 1.54" Exhaust Valves Port Size: 1.94"x1.76" Intake 1.24"x1.00" Exhaust |
Posted By: Luchog
Date Posted: September-07-2009 at 1:55pm
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arent those supposed to be the best heads available for the windsors? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2095" rel="nofollow - 1980 Ski Nautique Commander 351W |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: September-07-2009 at 6:53pm
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From what I hear and read with the larger valves they should be pretty hot!!
Here's some pic's. I still need to do some tweeking till it's ready. 
|
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: September-07-2009 at 7:01pm
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Gun are those real braided hoses or are they regular ones dresses with the ss braid sleeve? Either way they look very cool!!!
I used to have the braided sleeves on my vette´s engine, but in the last resto I decided I wanted a semi original look so I remove them!!! Those manifolds are mean!!! way better than the PCM´s, and easier to make valve adjustment on board!!no removal required for that purpose... ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: September-07-2009 at 7:36pm
| The water hose and breather are dressed the exhaust are braided. That's the some of the tweaking that needs done yet. |
Posted By: sam57
Date Posted: September-08-2009 at 1:20am
| Be careful with the Luan, most of it isn't put together with exterior glue and it WILL de-laminate. Get Luan underlayment from a flooring distributor for use with water based adhesives. |
Posted By: lfskizzer
Date Posted: September-11-2009 at 12:35pm
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Paul,
This is where I am at currently. Just have to tighten up some wires for anchor light, blower, and fuel sender. Put Exhaust back in then drop engine in and line her up. After engine is in plan on starting her up in the driveway with our flush kit we made. Put the floor carpet down and drivers seat etc...  ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4457 - 2008 Ski Nautique 206 http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2683 - 1985 Ski Nautique 2001 Series |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: September-11-2009 at 1:32pm
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Looks good. What did you use for the floor?
If your going to foam I like the way you did it with the floor first then foam, less waste |
Posted By: lfskizzer
Date Posted: September-11-2009 at 2:57pm
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I did everything out of Coosa Board, laminated the main stringers to 1 3/4 thick and secondaries were 3/4 thick and back near the exhaust we laminated it the same width that was there originally. Floor is 1/2 thick then glassed mainly on the gunnel sections and and glassed over the holes i think 2 layers. This boat will never rot now.
------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4457 - 2008 Ski Nautique 206 http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2683 - 1985 Ski Nautique 2001 Series |
Posted By: lfskizzer
Date Posted: September-12-2009 at 12:23pm
Almost done with my restore on my 85 nautique, Pulled out the Wood and put back everything Composite, the material is called Coosa Board and is what is used in the new boats basically. Each stringer is fiberglassed down with layers of fiberglass tape style. We cut the stringers 1/2 shorter so we could put in a 1/2 floor of coosa. Put in supports near Gunnels so floor could screw into. Foamed it glassed it, Bilgekote and all wiriing done, next is Engine, exhaust hose, Gas Tank, Fire her up in driveway with fake a lake. Put carpet on floor and seats back in. Will last now for ever no wood was ever used. Vent Pipes in front are conduit, bulkhead 3/4 inch thick rather then the cardboard they used.
------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4457 - 2008 Ski Nautique 206 http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2683 - 1985 Ski Nautique 2001 Series |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: September-12-2009 at 3:54pm
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Ahh the memories... ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: September-13-2009 at 3:38am
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looks good!!! ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: Kristof
Date Posted: September-13-2009 at 4:27pm
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Looks great!!
I also want to use Coosa Board when I'll restore mine. Too bad it is not available in Europe... Will have to find a european counterpart to use in my boat... ------------- - Gun control means: using BOTH hands! - Money doesn't make one happy, but when it rains cats and dogs, it's still better to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle... |
Posted By: lfskizzer
Date Posted: September-13-2009 at 9:53pm
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Ok everybody got the engine in and running here is a short clip of the wonderful sound I missed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9D-SVCme3k - 1985 ski nautique running finally ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4457 - 2008 Ski Nautique 206 http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2683 - 1985 Ski Nautique 2001 Series |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: September-13-2009 at 10:46pm
| How did the alignment work out? Did you have to do any major adjusting or was it close from when you took it out? |
Posted By: lfskizzer
Date Posted: September-13-2009 at 11:04pm
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Well I think my stringers are straighter then factory lol. Height was fine but side to side was off by 3/4 of inch so we loosened the engine mount side by side and she moved over. We will hopefully see when we get it in the water if the strut and shaft have problems or not. If we had this done about a week ago we could have had it back together for the LG Reunion but its going to stay home i think as we still have carpet to put back in and seats and finishing touches.
------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4457 - 2008 Ski Nautique 206 http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2683 - 1985 Ski Nautique 2001 Series |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: September-14-2009 at 3:59pm
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sweet sounding V-8!!! I´m almost 2 weeks away from that!! hope so...removable floors will be cut this week glassed and then in goes the carpet... ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: Cslaten33
Date Posted: January-03-2010 at 1:39am
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Hey I have a 74SN Skier. What are the odds that our stringers are the same deminsions? ------------- Thanks Clark Slaten |
Posted By: coach'80
Date Posted: July-10-2010 at 12:59pm
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nice work ------------- 1980 Ski new project 1994 Ski (sold) |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: July-11-2010 at 11:02am
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OK here's some updated pic's
Stringers with floor supports (no foam going back in this boat) 
Epoxy paint before gluing the floor down. (additional help to keep out the moisture) 
Side floor panels 1/4" luan double glassed both sides(first wrap with 1-1/2oz. mat then a layer of 10oz cloth. (very light and very solid) 
Main floor glued with thickened epoxy and biscuits. Then also the double coat of mat and glass 
Complete floor glued down 
Bilge painted with multi-surface epoxy (seemed to adhere very well) 
Todays objective is to run the cables, wiring harness, fuel lines and reinstall the gas tank and hopefully lay the carpet |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-11-2010 at 11:23am
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I cant add to something that is perfect, especially when one sees the light and does not opt to foam. safety starts at the Lanyard switch, do we wear it??/ ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: skyway2k
Date Posted: July-11-2010 at 1:16pm
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Looks completely awesome!! I love the paint you used in the bilge. Very nice. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5240&sort=&pagenum=1 - '91 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: July-13-2010 at 1:15pm
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Latest updates...
Gave her a bath, ran all cables and wires, gas tank installed and carpet roughed in and glued. Hopefully finish gluing carpet edges and strips tonight and drop the motor tomorrow. 
|
Posted By: Morfoot
Date Posted: July-13-2010 at 2:27pm
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Very Nice Paul, I just love these of boat resorations and the many ideas that come with them. The craftmanship is clearly evident in the pictures posted on everyones thread. Too bad CC didn't take the time to do it properly from the start. ------------- "Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman" |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: July-14-2010 at 2:50pm
that is almost the correct factory specs 58cc cambers, and 1.45 exhaust if my memory is correct, but these are not the correct specs for what you actually have, they have been tweeked. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: July-14-2010 at 3:14pm
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It depends if they are DOOE-B heads which had 1.78 intake valves, and 1.45 exhaust valves. These were 58.2cc.
The D0OE-C heads had 1.84 intake valves, and 1.54 exhaust valves with 60.4cc. ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: July-14-2010 at 4:16pm
I'm sure you know much more about the heads in his possesion than I do..... but I'll bet 10 grand you don't. 
tell me what lift the springs are rated for? tell me what type of rockers he is using? tell me the size of the valves in them? tell me how much you don't know about them. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: July-14-2010 at 4:50pm
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I'm simply pointing out that there are 2 variants of these heads. Someone who clearly knows more than anyone else does about fords heads stated that there are 2 different types as well. ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: July-14-2010 at 4:58pm
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Tom that may all be well and good but Chris is intimately familiar with the particular set in question. Before his Sea Ray days, Chris used to own a boat, and in an attempt to hang with the big boys, he planned to use the heads in question. Since then he sold off his toys and now Paul's boat should run pretty decent.
Paul, the boat looks great. I assume by "multi-surface epoxy" youre referring to the stuff made by Quikrete? ------------- |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: July-15-2010 at 12:17am
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That’s the stuff Tim, I also put a coat of clear on it.
I was very happy with the adhesion and since its dried seems to be very hard and wipes up nicely.(even semi dry contact cement from the carpet edges wipes right off w/a little mineral sprits)I think it will hold up well and should be easy to keep clean. Tom, Chris was baiting you in on the heads. As Tim said I bought them from Chris. What I posted is the Ford stock info I got online. What they have is feria valves 1.94/1.60, .600" lift springs, screw in studs and guide plates, scorpion 1.6:1 roller rockers and a custom ground cam from Cam Research. I don't remember what Chris told me if they were 58cc or what. By the way the motor's in I will post pics soon as I get a chance. |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: July-15-2010 at 12:34am
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Paul,
Since I didn't post before on this thread, I don't know who he was baiting. Regardless, you have been doing awesome work so far and I'm sure it will look beautiful when it's done.  ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: July-25-2010 at 3:27pm
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OK I thought I'd finish up this thread with the latest updates. I'm sorry I didn't post more step by step updates but I was killing myself to get her finished before vacation.
Here's the carpet roughed in.
The motor going in. 
It's in!!! 
Ahh the fruits of all that work. 
And referring to the very first post... Hundred hours of labor a couple thousand dollars in material being able to ski behind it with my daughter PRICELESS!!!! 
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Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-25-2010 at 5:00pm
Absolutely!!  Fantastic! 
How about how it's performing? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: July-25-2010 at 5:20pm
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Well pretty good I think. It sounds fantastic no misses etc, nice deep rumble through the straight pipes.
I always felt my '95 was a pretty fast running boat 48mph w/1442 @ 5,200rpm on the GPS but I thought the '85 would take the '95 out of the hole but no. We lined up same gas in the tanks, same weight drivers and they were dead even all the way to 46mph GPS I'm talkin DEAD EVEN. Went to a 2,000rpm then hammer down and same result DEAD EVEN they were like clones. That was with a bottom that hasn't seen wax in years and a 540. I'm hoping to try the 1442 with extra cup that's on the '95 next. But basically it was 46mph @ 4,500rpm Any prop suggestions would be appreciated, I would like to get the RPM upwards of 5,000 what do you think. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: July-25-2010 at 8:53pm
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Dont even consider putting the 1442 on that 1:1 boat if youre not getting enough RPM's out of it. Thats a 1.23 prop and your '85 will not appreciate the extra 3" of pitch.
Im surprised youre only seeing 4600 RPM out of that combo... Ive seen bone stock 2001's run dead on 4400 with a 540. Keeping up with a 1.23 HO 351w boat as fast as your '95 (48 is very strong) is impressive though. Refresh my memory- what do you have for a cam? That will play a large role in determining what WOT RPM you should be running to maximize your performance. ------------- |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: July-25-2010 at 9:31pm
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I'll have to dig up the specs Cam Research sent. Found the card from CR it's a CR266
The '95 ran the 48mph @ 5200rpm with the standard 1442. I dinged the prop and when I sent it back I asked to have the cup increased to bring the WOT down from 5200 to 5000 and I lost 2 mph. On one run we got 46.7 but that's it. I'm thinking about having it bent back to the stock 1442. 
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Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: July-26-2010 at 11:03am
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I wouldnt bother sending the prop back to be reworked. 5000 is really the target you should be shooting for on a stock HO 351w. I doubt the added cup is whats causing you to lose the 1-2mph... more likely it has to do with conditions at any given point, and perhaps the prop isnt quite as accurate now that its been repaired. 46-47 is still plenty strong for your combo.
If you get a chance to post the CR266 specs, that would be interesting to see. I would have expected your '85 to be flirting with 50. ------------- |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: July-26-2010 at 11:53am
Thats what I thought also. In Ex Gross valve lift .450 .450 Advertised duration 266* 272* Duration@.050 208* 214* Valve timing Open close Intake BTDC 23* ABDC 63* Exhaust BBDC 67* ATDC 25* Lobe seperation 112* Recommended valve spring data Installed Ht 1.820 Lbs 90 Open Ht 1.320 Lbs 290 They also note Use Valvoline 20-50 racing oil only. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: July-26-2010 at 12:37pm
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Ok, .450/.450 is on the conservative side. That is, unless youre running 1.7 roller rockers (which would put you in the .478 range). For comparison purposes, my '90 has .490/.490. Even still, if those heads are equivalent to GT40's, those alone should have you turning in the 4800-5000 range, especially with a 540.
Unless those heads just arent what theyre cracked up to be, I think youre leaving something on the table- Im just not sure where. Edit- dumb question... I just noticed youre looking for the adapter to attach your throttle cable to the carb. Im not sure how you have it set up now, but have you made sure youre getting full throttle extension with the cable? ------------- |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: July-26-2010 at 1:49pm
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I don't think that was the problem but I'll double check.
I welded up a piece out of half a washer and the flat part of a u-bolt. It worked fine I just want to put the original piece on. I am running 1.6:1 scorpion rockers |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: July-26-2010 at 2:03pm
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50 is a very tough nut to crack on that hull I dont think that engine is drastically underperforming its' parts at this point. It took 400 hp (actual dyno HP) for me to get my 83 to 52.x mph. I was right at 50.x with my back up engine last year but that was with aftermarket heads, more aggressive roller cam, port matched manifolds, and an insanely overkill ignition and fuel system for the application. I don't know that we ever got back final speed numbers from akabulla on his 330 hp excal 83 build up but his last estimate was right at 50.. I dont see anything in this build that would be targeting 330 hp. A big cam relatively small prop and some serious rpms would do it.. but that wouldn't necessarily be as fun a boat.
The boat and engine look great and should be solid for years.. congrats on getting through it. Getting your daugher/helper up on ski's next to you is not only priceless by timeless, having those pictures of her with the toolbelt and then later skiing is just unbelieveable history to have.. well done. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: July-26-2010 at 2:11pm
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Joe, I would imagine that another factor in the equation is how the hull rides- obviously some will be faster than others. I know of a few stock 2001's that were only good for ~42mph, and Ive seen others over 45mph on the GPS. Add 80hp to one of the faster ones and I would think you'd be in the 50mph range... I added a solid 5mph to my '90 with the first round of upgrades (H/C/I) and that is a much slower hull to start with.
I do agree that he isnt drastically underperforming... though I really would have expected another 200 RPM and 2mph, even if we're talking 280-290hp instead of 320. The boat does look terrific regardless- all the details came together very nicely. ------------- |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: July-26-2010 at 2:39pm
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IMHO not the best cam choice for the heads, Those heads need more RPM's and more lift and duration to take advantage of them. You did balance the rotating assemble? and ported them too? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: Bigdaddyriverrat
Date Posted: July-26-2010 at 2:41pm
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What type of paint did you use in the bilge? I am starting essentially the same project on a 74 Mustang Skier, hope I can do 1/2 as good as yours. Looks great. ------------- Earl M |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: July-26-2010 at 2:44pm
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Can you please clarify what model boat you have? There are Mustangs and there are Skiers, but they are different models.
As far as the bilge goes, Paul confirmed he used this, followed by a layer of clear:
------------- |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: July-26-2010 at 5:47pm
Chris this is what you sent me for the cam specs, but when I talked with the guy at C/R he didn't seem interested on what I thought it should be. this is in the ball park for what you would need, maybe a little more duration and a little more lift wouldn't hurt but don't change the separation: this is a comp cams spec, Cam Blank: 35-000-5RR Grind # FW 5442/5444 H112 +2 Duration: 218/226 @ .050" (I/E) Lift: .308"/.320" (I/E) (0.493"/0.512" w/ 1.6 rocker) Lobe Separation: 112 |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: July-26-2010 at 6:23pm
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those heads where set up for over .500 of lift and 5500-6000 rpm so maybe I'm not following your numbers or comparing them correctly. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: July-26-2010 at 7:11pm
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I guess what I'm trying to say is,
I told the guy at C/R the specs you sent me along with the type head's and valve/valve springs specs and he basically said I know what you need. But your specs are more in-line with what your saying those heads need. I don't know it's all greek to me I'm just learning this stuff. |
Posted By: akabulla
Date Posted: July-26-2010 at 7:31pm
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Sorry I am late chiming in. Like Joe said I have a 330 hp Excalibur in my 82 with a new floor and stringers so there is no extra weight from soaked foam. Now I have only tried my 422 4 Blade Acme but I get right at 47. I haven't tried any other props because the hole shot with this is great and all I really care about is getting out of the water for boarding. Maybe with a different prop I could hit 50 but not sure.
With 3 people in the boat my RPMs match my speed almost dead on. 3000 = 30, 3500 = 35 etc.... |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: July-27-2010 at 1:55am
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Maybe I should just ask my head mechanic!!
Ya know dad I think its the dang throttle linkage. 
Just let me get those damn pliers. 
OK try it now Dad. 
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Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: July-27-2010 at 11:17am
Did you fail to mention that you had a 351w? Thats something they should have asked. If not, its possible they assumed you have a 302- those specs are nearly identical (.450/.450, 206/212) to the cam CR recommended for my sister's Mustang- which has a 302 and GT40p heads that they intend to turn up to 5k RPM. Maybe there was a (pretty major) miscommunication? When selecting a cam, you need to know everything about the application its being installed into- cubic inches, compression ratio, heads, intake, weight of the vehicle, intended use, etc. ------------- |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: July-27-2010 at 11:36am
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Its been so long ago that I had that done I don't remember exactly what info was given or what questions were asked.
I guess tonight when I get home I'll get the serial # from the cam and give him a call and see what he thinks. |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: July-28-2010 at 12:24am
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I was wondering if it could be a fuel delivery problem (as in not enough)causing the low max rpm. So before I called C/R I pulled a plug and its white as could be.
So any ideas if the low rpm could be caused by getting a lot more air/not enough gas since the mods. If so where do I start, larger jets? |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-28-2010 at 10:05am
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more air more fuel.......this is where i fall off the cliff...if i remember correctly the kits come with a 2.5 power valve which you could bump up to 6.5...
i know enough to be dangerous, but you are running lean as we discussed, I never claimed to be a carb guru but going up a few sizes in the jets may find some rpms...got to get those plugs to burn tan. im bumping the thread so one of the carb guys can direct you ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-28-2010 at 10:08am
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I also spoke to CR at the time, it would have to of been a major malfunction...
lets try the fuel thing first ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: July-28-2010 at 12:06pm
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you can try it but I wouldn't expect any changes, I'm pretty sure you'll need to replace the cam before you see any changes.
You did blue the valve's tip while you where checking the push-rod length and it's centered on the stem correct? if not, you'll be buying new valves before long. I hope you didn't use standard 351W push-rods if you did then there isn't any need to do anything untill you install the correct length push rods. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: July-28-2010 at 12:14pm
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Chris,
Eric would know the answers to your questions he put it together for me. My concern is the lean condition the plugs are showing. I was doing some research on the carb and came across a video put out by Holley. It talked about the power valve in the new carbs having a blow out protection (92 & newer) to protect it from backfires. I'm wondering that when I first ran it with the two wires switched, if I could have blown the pwr/valve with all the backfires. |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: July-28-2010 at 12:30pm
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well if it's fuel, take someone with you, raise the cover spray carb cleaner into the flame arrestor while your at speed if it takes off then yea might be the problem, it just does't sound like it is though also with new plugs they are not going to run chocolate brown over night or after a couple hours of running, especially if your looking at the tip and not the root of the plug. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: July-28-2010 at 1:06pm
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They are definitely burning too lean. Before I dig into the cam theory, I think I’m going to try some carburetor things first and see where that gets me.
Tonight when I get home I’ll try to see what jets are in there and also pull the power valve. My local auto parts has some pwr/valves and jets in stock so I can start there. Hopefully either Friday or Saturday I can get some test runs on the changes. After that if I don't see any change or don't like the results, then I'll persue the cam lift ideas. PS: The motor does still have the stock ignition system...points/condenser if that information will help. |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: July-28-2010 at 1:17pm
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if the push rods are not the right length you'll never get enough fuel/air mixture and will always run lean so re-jetting and changing the power valve won't help if the valves are barely opening.
regarding the ign, as long as dwell was set correctly and the timing is correct then all is good. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: July-28-2010 at 6:09pm
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Bare with me on this as I’m just learning this technical stuff. But isn’t the fuel/air already mixed when it gets to the valves.
The valves are there to allow X-amount of the mixture in/out of the cylinder. So wouldn't it already be lean before getting there? Now I could see that if the valves aren’t opening enough due to shorter push rods, then you would be robbing yourself of the full potential of the larger valve/valve openings. |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: July-28-2010 at 6:19pm
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their isn't enough of the charge to fill the volume so it'll always be lean, then throw on top of it a under speced cam it's multipliing the issue.
if everything is like it should be then yes you are correct and re-jetting is called for, but I feel your weak on the cam and short on the length so the geometry is all off in the valve train and throwing more fuel at isn't going to fix it is my gut feeling. Give it a shot i'm just not overly optimistic it will cure the problem and since Eric hasn't commented I'll assume that he used stock push rods which is a major error since orginally they where pedestol rockers and now are stud mounts, and they will not be the same, that's why the gauge was provided and a specific procedure to determind the length was required. So if the gauge wasn't used and bluing wasn't applied to valve and the engine cycled to determind the length and centering of the roller on the tip, nothing is going to work right and will lead to premature failure. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-29-2010 at 9:52am
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nope, if i remember correctly i used the gauge and they are right where they are suppose to be. i do remember i had the next size rod and it was to much. didnt blue them because they were rollers. if there burning white, they're getting air, we would definitly have a rich situation if not.. ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: July-29-2010 at 11:58am
you blue them becaue they are rollers and because they have to be exactly in the middle otherwise you side load the valve stem and trash the valve and rocker because your appling a side load to them, major screw up not doing it correctly. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |