engine rebuilt
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13422
Printed Date: November-21-2024 at 8:02pm
Topic: engine rebuilt
Posted By: kapla
Subject: engine rebuilt
Date Posted: April-21-2009 at 4:59pm
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as you might read on other post I had a cracked head...my engine is 1920 hours and as I´m also doing the stringer this winter I think it will be good moment to do an engine freshen up.....Gt40 heads are coming but I will need some help from you guys for sourcing parts.
Alternatives: heads swap, cam, cylinder jackets to keep std piston size, reuse old piston & rods (if they are ok) new rings and rod bearings. same but go over bore? new piston? which size is recomndable? I need to do a quote with parts and labor here... to compare to having a complete engine... What do you think? ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Replies:
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-21-2009 at 5:03pm
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are these decent?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/351W-Ford-marine-master-engine-kit-pistons-gaskets_W0QQitemZ380118148801QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBoat_Parts_Accessories_Gear?hash=item380118148801&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A117165%3A1239%3A1240%3A1318 - engine kit ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: April-21-2009 at 8:59pm
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It will probably work for you but first you need to tear the thing out and tear it apart. After that your going to want to either bore and/or hone your block, and
turn and/or grind and polish your crank. Rods may be able to be resized if need be. Bottom line is you wont know till you tear it apart and inspect/measure it. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-21-2009 at 10:45pm
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yeap i will have the hole thing tear appart byt the end of the week and take some conclussions....
other idea is to get a half engine those that are remanufacure.. you know a good source for this kind of engine? ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-22-2009 at 3:07pm
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I was able to source some heads out of ebay but most are for 5l engines and for roller lifters... so I need to get a roller set? or can I go with the old cam?
i also want to put a performer intake...any particular thing on this one? the regular one from the major vendors is ok? summit etc? http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=EDL-2181&autoview=sku - edl 2181 ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-22-2009 at 3:23pm
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Seb, thats the correct intake. Summit is a good vendor, though you could probably pick one up cheaper on ebay.
Windsor heads interchange- most GT40 or GT40p heads will have come off of a 302 (5.0L) but will bolt up to a 351w without any issue so long as you have the head bolt holes drilled out (1/2" from 7/16"). You can use the heads with either a roller or flat tappet cam. That being said, I would strongly consider purchasing the heads from a reputable rebuilder like Clearwater or Tristate. As has been discussed here in the past, once you pay to have used heads reconditioned you will likely spend more than a refurbished set thats ready to bolt on. Thats especially true if you need to upgrade the valve springs- which is highly recommended when going with a warmer-than-stock cam. ------------- |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-22-2009 at 3:28pm
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tim
any special source for the heads or should i keep looking on e bay... I have my doubts though.... What do you think of the cam I should look on a new one or can I keep the old with the gt40p heads? ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-22-2009 at 3:30pm
forget the previous post I have it here... ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
TRBenj wrote:Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-22-2009 at 3:39pm
While you have it apart I would highly recommend an upgrade. You can always stay with stock, but a cam matched to your other parts will really bring the package to life. Call Cam Research for specifics. ------------- |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-22-2009 at 3:45pm
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of I´ll shoot them an email... they should know what to look if i tell them were i´m standing now?
------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: April-22-2009 at 3:50pm
Don't shoot Cam research an email, you probably won't get an answer. You need to call. 303.762.0022 ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-22-2009 at 3:54pm
now I know why I have to call them.. no email on their contact 
guess I´ll have to work on my spoken language abbility to carry this on... I write better than i speak ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-22-2009 at 4:03pm
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Just hang out...told me to contact scott on a couple of hours....
Going through ebay I foun some seller like this guys http://www.rapidomarine.com/default.aspx?p=/engines/default.aspx - long block engines I´d like to know what are they selling you for 1400? smoke? have anybody dealt with thses guy or bought long block ready to go? where? ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-23-2009 at 5:27pm
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Well some sourcing with Tri state heads and they are offering me a set of ready to bolt on gt40p heads for $598+ shipping... they will do the drilling for the bigger bolts for my engine...
Just hang out the telephone with scott from cam research and he is offering me the cam number CR266 and the lifters for $265. Is that ok? I forgot to ask him cam specs though.... For the engine rebuilt kit I was thinking on paw or summit? Sebastian ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: April-23-2009 at 6:01pm
$265 with lifters and that probably includes breaking it in, get the specs for us but the price is right. $598 is the going rate for Tristate heads, I bought mine there and I think Gary S just did recently as well. ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-23-2009 at 6:25pm
81 sorry my first time i´m so involved on a rebuilt but what do you mean about it including the breaking in? sebastian ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-23-2009 at 6:31pm
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lift 490 intake exhaust duration at050 int 218 exh 222? these make sense?
I think I got it rigth... this scott is not much of a talker kind of guy and my hearing is also bad!!! ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-23-2009 at 7:00pm
Sounds like the same cam Ive got in my boat. Regarding break in, read their website: http://www.camresearchcorp.com/CamKing/camking.htm - Cam Research cam break in service ------------- |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-23-2009 at 7:21pm
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got it...they kind of soften them with that machine ha... ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-23-2009 at 7:28pm
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we are talking of hidraulic flat tappet lifters on this engines right? I´m kind of confussed on this thing and don´t want to order the wrong stuff.
If I get this cam kit and the heads should which will be worked for hydraulics flat tapet (they are for rollers) I have to mind on the valve train? Can I use the old rocker arms with all this news stuff? ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: April-23-2009 at 8:54pm
Haha, first off yes Scott is a man of few words. I was gonna mention that but you picked up on it right away. Yes you need a flat tappet hydraulic lifter cam, verify that is what Scott is suggesting but I am certain he knows what you've got in that year ski boat. Your old rockers will work fine, rollers would be a step up but not necessary. I'm betting your stock pushrods will be fine but must still be checked for length. I would recommend having them break the cam in, it's a $60 fee but I think it's money well spent and is worth the peace of mind. I still followed standard breakin procedures when starting my motor for the first time anyway. I ripped my motor down for some mods and after 2 summers of pretty hard use I could not detect any signs of wear on the cam or lifters. ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-24-2009 at 2:04pm
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If i go this path I will ask about the breaking service...
Regarding pushrods that was going to be my next question so what lenght should I look for. I will measuse them and let you Know... Now that I have the valve cover out I wanted to repaint them as some of the paint went off due to water coming out of the riser due to a bad gasket. They are powder coated? Anyone did them? Sebastian ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: April-24-2009 at 2:47pm
Push rods are the last thing you do and you won't know what length you need until the motor is assembled and you can measure then. We'll walk you through that when the time comes. Don't worry about that right now and I still would bet you will reuse the ones coming out. ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: Luchog
Date Posted: April-24-2009 at 3:04pm
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Alan one issue Kapla has now is shipping, It's better for us well down abroad to try order everything together to reduce shipping costs.
Kapla's engine is over 1900hours, I'd say he can use the old pushrods too, but now that he's tearing it all apart why dont put all new stuff??? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2095" rel="nofollow - 1980 Ski Nautique Commander 351W |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-24-2009 at 3:36pm
Because the originals should be fine, even with that many hours on them. Why order a new set when you dont know what length you need? ------------- |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-24-2009 at 5:00pm
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I have an estimate that this upgrade and freshen up is goign to be around the 2.5k-3k (parts machining and labor) range now my question is will I notice this 40hp gain? they better be worth every penny.
Along with the floor estimate of 2k more I be getting a new boat at least!!! I only need to finish tearing the engine to decide what can I re-use and what´s going to be new, to order the engine kit... ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: April-25-2009 at 1:45am
Yes Guys thats what I just payed about 3 weeks ago and $25 per to ship.For us here in the states it took 3 days to get here after ordering and they are new not rebuilt.Steel freeze plugs tho,you can just run them that way until the warrantee runs out then change them. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-25-2009 at 12:01pm
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I did find out there are 2 different timing sets, i pulled the one with the plastic gear and the offset ecentric and 2 piece fuel pump cam, the one scott sent me had a on center ecentric for a one piece fuel pump cam.
If you buy your timing set from him, make sure you let him know which one you have, he is a man of few words, but i did get him to crack a laugh, I hate calling somewhere and you think you are bothering them ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-25-2009 at 12:02pm
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1973 to 1988 one set and then 1988 on another set, I think they made the switch in the middle of the year ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-25-2009 at 12:28pm
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So I should state Is for a post 88 engine? he should now his stuff rigth? ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: Quigs85SN2001
Date Posted: April-25-2009 at 3:40pm
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Sebastian,
I was in the same situation last year. I got my GT40p heads from Clearwater Cylinder Head (800)572-1963. They offer new castings and reconditioned castings. I got the reconditioned heads for $400 + $50 shipping. That included brass freeze plugs and drilling out for 351 head bolts. I did a lot of additional work, but re-used the stock cam as it was in good condition. You will definitely notice the extra horse power from the GT40p heads! Good luck with your project! ------------- Brian |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-26-2009 at 3:10am
I sent them an email but no replay, your engine was the base, and you upgraded to the gt40p? I'm also concern on how deep tho go...lots of money into it... engine runs perfect no leaks, no oil consumption, so I wanted to know if i could just drop in the new heads and leave the rest as is...no tearing appart...is it crazy? The stock carb has to be rejeted for the new heads? engine were it sits now.... 
------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: Quigs85SN2001
Date Posted: April-26-2009 at 11:23am
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Try calling them on Monday, I also tried to email them and had better luck by phone. Don't worry about your english, I'm sure they have someone that speaks spanish there! My engine started out with a burnt exhaust valve. When I got the heads off, the cylinder with the bad valve had a hole burnt through the piston, so I had to rebuild. The previous owner of my boat apparently hydro-locked the engine at some point since the machinist also found a bent connecting rod when he reconditioned them. It was a mess, but she runs great now thanks to the guys on this site!
Was your engine running well before you discovered the cracked head? Have you run a compression test lately? Since the heads are off, what do the cylinder walls look like? Can you still see the cross hatch pattern clearly? If you don't know of any additional problems, I'd put the new heads on and try it. Warm the engine up, then do a compression test and decide if it needs more work. All you have to lose is a few hours and the price of a gasket set. I'm sure others will have their opinions. ------------- Brian |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-26-2009 at 11:40am
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do you have a bore gauge available?the bores should be 4.000 if they are within a .0015, and you can see the hone marks and no piston scuff, i would do the same as quig says. probably re-ring it and bearing the bottem end. the cylinder walls if in good shape are work hardened and no better surface then that to run new rings on. if not pop on the heads and go.
If you dont have a bore gauge available a good indication of the condition is the ridge at the top, if none you are good to go ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-27-2009 at 1:02am
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engine ran perfect before the discovery...it did burn 1/2 quart of oil between each oil change, every 50-60 hours...
regarding the cylinder walls they are smooth, but with a little ridge at the top.... anyway I'll be ordering a complete engine rebuilt kit...are the summit kit ok? I was also thinking on Performance auto warehouse for parts. regarding my english its actually good btu I get stuck sometimes wiht technical words... ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: critter
Date Posted: April-27-2009 at 1:32am
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Depending on how much of a ridge you find at the top of the cylinder, you may need one of these...
http://www.mgaguru.com/mgtech/tools/ts311.htm - Ridge Reamer ------------- 1980 Ski Nautique 1966 Barracuda |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-27-2009 at 2:20pm
interesting reading.. I´ll discuss it with the machinist if possible, I´ll also going to check the bore to see if it´s within specs. Anyway I´m considering to order all the parts now, to save some shipping cost and time in the future. I case it in specs i´ll be ordering a rings and rod bearings kit in std size. And a complete kit with pistons in a .10? oversize, for when I decide to rebuilt? Maybe I´m ahead cause Í didn´t even finished the tear appart of the engine yet... Regarding pistons what should I order? cast, forged or hipereutetic? rings moly or other material? Eric I don`t recall ever changing the damper plate since I own the boat, so I guess it´s a good opportunity to do it now, you carry them? ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-27-2009 at 4:03pm
just spoke with bob, 420 for the reconditioned heads with my choice of ss or brass FP and drilled ready to bolt on...  new not available....
So now new or used new or used tough call...------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-27-2009 at 4:13pm
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I would definitely go refurb'd and save the cash over new. Dont forget that if you go with a new cam, you should strongly consider Tristate over Clearwater because of the upgraded valvesprings. ------------- |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-27-2009 at 4:22pm
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they are cast plugs!!!!! lol, everybody has a little Pete in them, the holes they cover let sand out not ice ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: April-27-2009 at 4:28pm
technically they are core openings that are machined and fitted with stamped brass or steel plugs. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-28-2009 at 3:36pm
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Took the engine out....
lots of pics.. enjoy engine on lifter 
on the air 
lifter 
engine ready to go 
gearbox spline 
for you eric original damper plate 
note the manufacture date... 
lifters.. 
double timing chain 
crank 
some wear on the rod bearing.. 
piston 
oil pump with lots of oil residue 
crank bearing 
crank 
cylinder walls 
camshaft 
No major wear for what my freind told.. normal for that amount of hours... cylinder gaskets were almost gone...but the rest its as you can see.. Let me know if you need to see any specific part as I have lots of more pictures ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-28-2009 at 3:55pm
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Options
1 new pistons on .30 and leave the rest in std measure 2 leave everything and re ring along with all bearing in std size? Gasket any particular thing or use the ones in the kit? also thinking on the metal multilayer ones? are they good for marine use? ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: April-28-2009 at 4:28pm
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get marine head gaskets, measure the bores, if they need re-bored then get .010-.030 oversized pistons accordingly with the proper rings to get the correct ring gap. if they don't need bore then get the proper rings so that you have the correct end gap.
Measure the main and rod journals, if one or more are egg shaded or out of round, undersized, or scored/pitted then the crank needs replaced or turned down and the apporiate bearings used (.010-.030 oversized depending on how much is removed to true them up). You just can't reuse what you have and expect it to last or be correct, measure the parts and verify that they can be reused. No since in spending alll this money then to find out your crank is junk and you smoked the bearings or have low compression and blow-by because you didn't use the right pistons and rings. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: critter
Date Posted: April-28-2009 at 4:38pm
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If you have a Machine Shop close by, take the Block and Crank to them and let them check the wear. They will tell you if you need the cylinders bored or just honed. They will check the Crank for wear and let you know if it needs turned or can be polished.
They will tell you the size Bearings and Rings and if you need new Pistons if they have to bore. You do not want to have to pull this motor again. Those are the required and simplest checks. ------------- 1980 Ski Nautique 1966 Barracuda |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-28-2009 at 6:17pm
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I´ll be taking all to the machine shop prior to ordering any parts..and measure all
Yes I know if I went so far better do it right once... ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: April-28-2009 at 7:32pm
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I would say that looking at the wear pattern the crank has at least one rod journal out of round, notice the concentrated area were the wear is, should have been a little more spread out accross the surface.
Well question is now how deep are your pockets and what is the budget? Piston's don't look too bad might be able to reuse, but .025-.030 bored over is nice too, the crank has to be turned, whats the thrust bearing look like, on the block too?, your getting a better cam and lifters, unless availibility/price is an issue, so is it budget, mild or HO build? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-28-2009 at 10:24pm
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Tomorrow I'll be taking block and crank to the machining shop.. after measureing it i will report back with conlusions...I gues I'll finish going all the way... budget is around the 3k... for that money there i can get a decent repower i bet...but a long block here after taxes is within the 6k...so it's still cheaper to go rebuilt and i get the extra power...
I mind the budget, but I like my things to perform as they should, and also I like a trouble free boating...don't like to be towed due to failures..in the nine years i own the boat I was only towed 4 times and only one being a engine failure (back fire exploted the muffler) others wer hitting things. back to the engine i plan to rebuilt and add the extra power of the gt40p head cam reasearch cam and performer intake... ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-28-2009 at 11:24pm
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going back to the cam what the break in good for?
------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-29-2009 at 10:13am
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if you buy a cam from cam research, he will break it in for 60.00
the only thing i noticed was some scuff in the pistons which means they were rocking in the bores, alot of times when you get scuff they will gall the piston rings in thier bores. all in all it looks like pretty normal wear. let the machine shop do thier job and measure everything, if it doesnt need bored dont bore it, I hate when someone tells me i gotta 355 in it (chevy) there really is no HP gain from boring, not enough to notice anyways, a good work hardened block is better than new IMO, and if the bores are at 4.00 hone it and run it. BMW racing wont use new blocks they buy them from the boneyards put them out back and pee on them for several months to cure them...then machine them, i didnt need to add that but its a good example of a used block. ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-29-2009 at 10:16am
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I also noticed that you have the 2 piece fuel pump cam ecentric, when ordering specify that you need the offset timing set to accomadate the top gear, that workhorse looks like it was ready for a freshening up. ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-29-2009 at 10:20am
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One more thing, I did read a bulletin from Borg Warner about damper plate stress, I know you have a pcm, but if you order the damper from PCM, which is the only place you can get it, they want you to pull the damper in with bolts because it protrudes away from the flywheel about a 1/16th......not good, you need to space it out with hardened washers.
the bulletin read: in no way can you distort the plate, early failure will occur.....cant remember the rest ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Luchog
Date Posted: April-29-2009 at 12:49pm
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Kapla I Do need a another specific picture... It would be one with your wife's friend doing some wrenches on that 351!!! ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2095" rel="nofollow - 1980 Ski Nautique Commander 351W |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-29-2009 at 1:22pm
you wish.. I imagine her in the workshop jumpsuit with her face all covered in grease.... ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-29-2009 at 1:28pm
thats right this offset cam should come along with the timing chain kit or should it come appart? Is It necessary to replace that part? It has to be new with the timing? I was thinking on putting an edelbrock double timing set... ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-29-2009 at 1:31pm
actually the damper plate they now sale is a round one, it replaced the three leg style I have now...I spoke with Richard from skidim on the subject and said that this new style should do ok... ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: Luchog
Date Posted: April-29-2009 at 1:36pm
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Kapla check Roberto Bettiga on price for the damper... they are not that expensive around here and he'd gladly walk you through the instalation. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2095" rel="nofollow - 1980 Ski Nautique Commander 351W |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-29-2009 at 1:40pm
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eric this is the part I should get? I don´t se the two piece style... http://beta.summitracing.com/parts/FMS-M-6287-C302/Application/?prefilter=1 - fuel cam ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: April-29-2009 at 1:42pm
You guys are heading down a slippery slope with this, Eric's already been on here today talking about wet spots! ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-29-2009 at 2:46pm
just spoke to bettigas shop.. I should take mine as a sample to see what thay got similar here.. but price are in the range of 450-500 pesos...(120-135 us)and the pcm damper with the ccf discount and after tax I estimate for 150.. I´ll stick to pcm for that difference... ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-29-2009 at 7:01pm
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a here´s the link to my album for the complete pics of the tear down
http://s333.photobucket.com/albums/m372/kapla74/motor%20nicotra/ - engine tear down ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-29-2009 at 7:56pm
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Apparentley some of the cylender were scuffed so machin recomends to go .30, no need to turn the crank though. so I´ll go with a set kit with .030 on pistons and rings and standard on the rest So far here is my part list first are some parst from skidim, then summit Remove Qty Description DAMPER PLATE PCM TRANS GM/FORD DAMPER PLATE PCM TRANS GM/FORD Item :R140016 Unit Price : $92.03 Add to Cart GSKT CYLINDER HEAD FORD 302/351 EACH GSKT CYLINDER HEAD FORD 302/351 EACH Item :RM0018 Unit Price : $23.63 Add to Cart INTAKE GASKET SET FORD 351 INTAKE GASKET SET FORD 351 Item :RM0186 Unit Price : $39.99 Add to Cart EDL-2181 Intake Manifold, Performer, Dual Plane, Aluminum, Natural, Square Bore, Ford, 351W, Each $199.95 edl-7814 Timing Chain and Gear Set, Performer-Link, Double Roller, Iron/Steel Sprockets, Ford, 302/351, Set $34.75 FEM-MKP6116A-300 Engine Rebuild, Cast Dish, 4.030 in. Bore, Standard Rod, Standard Main, Ford, 351W, Kit $324.39 Parts not listed would be the cam kit from cam research with the break-in service for 265 +60(break in) and 598 for the tri state gt40p heads... all plus shipping what do you think? only thing i see wrong with the engine kit its the gaskets are not for a carburated engine...? ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: Luchog
Date Posted: April-29-2009 at 10:24pm
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I'd order the valve grind job gasket set, it costs almost the same as the 3 gaskets you want and you get the entire set.
------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2095" rel="nofollow - 1980 Ski Nautique Commander 351W |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-29-2009 at 10:29pm
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thats what i'll do...I can get the money back by selling the automotives one i won't be using ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: April-29-2009 at 10:33pm
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I'm not sure about the dished pistons.I don't know what quality of gas you get there,but up here I'm pretty sure everyone uses flat top ones to get the compression ratio up.One who would know is Alan, 81 nautique, he did alot of research when he rebuilt his. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-29-2009 at 11:13pm
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dished are the same as the ones I took out.. here we get unleaded regula in the 87-90 oct range, special in the 94-95 range and premiun on the 97-100 ron...depending the brand... ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-30-2009 at 12:41am
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the round damper is the only one available and it does not fit right, you need to space it regardless of what you are told.
no, you do not need to order the 2 piece fuel pump cams but you need the correct top timing gear to accomadate the 2 piece ecentric, your mounting boss is off center and the other style is on center do they use lead in the fuel in your country? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-30-2009 at 12:44am
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nop..
they use additives to replace it... i'll check the pump cam set ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-30-2009 at 1:27am
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eric when the time comes I'll ask you how to proper install the new damper plate....what size of spacer will i need to get through
wonder with they changed? ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-30-2009 at 10:38am
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got it, im sure there is a post somewhere,
when you get the damper put it up to the Flywheel and you will be able to see the spacing needed, it does not sit flush ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-30-2009 at 11:05am
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Seb,
The spacers Eric mentioned are simply flat washers but they are precision thickness. Here in the states, they are sometimes called "fixturing" washers. They have been ground flat to a uniform thickness. Yes, somewhere there is a thread with the thickness mentioned. .1875" ???  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-30-2009 at 11:51am
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I guess that they are from some special material ss or hardened steel, not the regurlar washer? I wouldn`t like this washer to corrode in there... ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: April-30-2009 at 12:10pm
Gary, I would think it all comes down to what compression ratio he wants to run. If he goes back with stock replacement dished pistons and puts gt40p heads with 59/60 cc chambers he will be in the 9.3:1 area which is fine on just about any pump gas. If he truly has access to 95+ octane then I would go higher and the flat tops will be the ticket. A word of caution for him though is if his engine skills are questionable I would stay as close to stock as possible. We've already been through pushrod length and I'm not sure that concept is solid in his mind yet, then with a non stock cam and flat tops he'd have to check piston to valve clearance also. I think it opens a can of worms the farther he strays from his current thinking. Stock pistons, gt40p heads and a proven cam and good to go. Sebastian, if you have a link to the actual piston you plan to use and it has the specs I can figure your CR exactly for you. ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-30-2009 at 6:23pm
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Alan
I agree with you gas its fine here but I don´t want to mess things up so I figure my big upgrade will come out from the head+cam+intake upgrade..I´m not looking on higher comp engine to gain more hp... I want something reliable and bullet proof..and that possible to run it with any kind of pump fuel and not worried about getting premium.... As for engine kit is this one from summit cam from cam research cr266 intake edl2181 and the heads... http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=FEM%2DMKP6116A%2D300&autoview=sku - rebuilt kit ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-30-2009 at 7:12pm
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Tim
this one is for you as you have almost the same set up I will be getting(except hiteks and other goodies), Will the new set up fit under the doghouse ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: May-01-2009 at 1:06am
What CR are you running Alan? In my haste to install my heads I forgot to check my CR. Since the new heads are the same cc as the old,I don't expect any trouble. I thought you'd have to bring your piston to tdc and cc the cylinder to get the figures to plug into the forumla. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: May-01-2009 at 1:42am
Gary, I'm just under 10:1 now with the new heads. If you have all the specs of your motor you can figure it out,ie: Head chamber, piston dome volume(can be plus or minus depending on dome or dish pistons, valve relief volume,deck clearance,head gasket bore,head gasket thickness, bore, stroke and conn rod length. There are several free calculators on the net, I use the one in desktop dyno. I tried to look up the info on Sebastians pistons but they don't list the specs on the summit site and I didn't have time to call today. ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-01-2009 at 12:22pm
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Alan...you give million dollar advice, stay close to stock, your not building a race boat that will break the three digit mark, build it in mind with the torque curve and economy...and most important of all reliability.....the hotter it is the more you work on it, and that comes from going through that learning curve. stock over .030 pistons, GT stuff and you will have a reliable boat....unless you get a chevy they there will be no worries. lol
sorry Alan, I really have grown fond of these little boy blues, its all in fun ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: May-04-2009 at 5:01pm
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Well I started ordering the stuff!!! just hang out with scott and the cam is in the grinding process I got to speak with him actually, told me he also skis, that he owns a MC that its totally payed off (means its old I guess), finally turned out to be a nice guy...
Ordered from skidim the marine gasket set and misc... Just left the heads and the summit order... That I will complete in the rest of the day... Then just seat and wait... They will come in boat..so in about 30-45 i will have the stuff.. ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: May-09-2009 at 1:25am
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All stuff is in process.... cam is in the break in adn ready to ship next week. summit order shipped, head are in the build up porcess...
Some doubts, will the cam work with any timing set or should i get the cam resaerch timing set (pricey) Heads better be excellent and word the extra money..wonder whats the diference between this ones and the ones from clear water or on ebay reburshed ones... .... ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-09-2009 at 10:56am
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Kap, i posted a pic for you in the wanted's ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: May-11-2009 at 2:10pm
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Seb, where did you end up buying the heads from? Hopefully you went with Tristate- the advantage to theirs is the upgraded valvesprings that you need with the new cam.
Whether you fit under the motorbox or not depends on 2 things- how tall the intake manifold is and which flame arrestor you have. Both of those are different on your set up than mine, so my guess wont help you much. ------------- |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: May-11-2009 at 6:31pm
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Order them at tristate...that was my comment on the extra money....
for the intake I will have the performer 2181...and I have the stock flame arrestor (2 1/2in tall?) ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: May-11-2009 at 6:39pm
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I think Tristate's price is well worth it since youre upgrading the cam.
You *should* be ok with motorbox clearance. My Stealth intake is roughly an inch taller than the Performer, and with a 2" arrestor I just barely squeeze it in. ------------- |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: May-11-2009 at 6:51pm
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So with all this what hp should I expect? 285 at least? ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: Luchog
Date Posted: May-11-2009 at 8:55pm
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I think there's a chart on the torque/HP open discussion that sort of covers your rebuild.
just checked it and it puts you around 330hp at 5000rpms. Keep in mind HP ratings are taken at wot, what you want to check also is the torque curve wich is in my opinion is key for propeller selection for specific applications. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2095" rel="nofollow - 1980 Ski Nautique Commander 351W |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: May-12-2009 at 11:51am
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Alan ran a desktop dyno for me and came up with 311hp @5000 RPM with my mods combined with the stock exhaust. With your shorter manifold you'll lose a few ponies, but 300 or so is definitely in the ballpark. ------------- |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: June-02-2009 at 7:51pm
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Update...some parts arrived today.. the order from skidim with all the gaskets....
I did some work on the exhaust manifolds... will post pics soon when i finish them... ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: Luchog
Date Posted: June-02-2009 at 9:19pm
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Kapla, I just realised that I have a set of "PCM" Autolite Spark plugs that my dealer sent by mistake, and are the correct ones for your new engine with the Gt40s and not mine.
I will not be using them. http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=RP030007 ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2095" rel="nofollow - 1980 Ski Nautique Commander 351W |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: June-03-2009 at 2:52pm
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Ok when the times comes I will want them... price?
Any updates with your heads? ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: July-03-2009 at 4:26pm
some pics of the exhaust manifolds after painted..
still waiting for the parts to come... ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: Luchog
Date Posted: July-03-2009 at 10:09pm
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Kapla did your head gaskets come with any intruction on installation?
I got 2 gaskets that look exactly the same, but one blocks the water passages on front of the block and the other the ones on the back of it. They say "front" on each face and side so it's a bit confusing. WIch water passages should be covered? the ones on the front or those on the back? By the way, you manifolds ended up looking really well, the Krylon Hi heat I used for mine does not have that gloss. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2095" rel="nofollow - 1980 Ski Nautique Commander 351W |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: July-05-2009 at 11:34pm
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u mean the riser gaskets? between the riser and the elbow? if so the block passage is the one in the back..
its something to do with the flow.. about the paint: it has a nice glow..it will hold up good in the upper parts but in the bottom it will cook soon after the engine starts up... those manifolds you're talking about are for your work boat right? ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: Luchog
Date Posted: July-06-2009 at 12:09am
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Kapla I painted to log style square ones on my Nautique, the engine for the 660 has some casted torpedoe shaped Commander manifolds very much like the Edelbroks or H.M. posted on this site.
As for the water passages I mean the ones on the block and cylinder head ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2095" rel="nofollow - 1980 Ski Nautique Commander 351W |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: July-06-2009 at 12:18am
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ok wouldn't know the head gasket possitioning so i'll wait someone gives you the answer so I note it for my assembly ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: July-08-2009 at 7:01pm
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update: good news my parts will be delivered next thursday 7-16...bad news I fly to london that exact day..so i won´t be able to take pics of my smilling with all the parts...at least it will all be ready for assy when I get back on 8-17... ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: SN206
Date Posted: July-08-2009 at 7:32pm
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Kapla,
Been following your posts. That's good to hear. Won't be long and you'll be foot'n behind the your own boat! ------------- ...those who have fallen and those who will. |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: July-08-2009 at 7:48pm
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thanks 206...hopefully I will have my boat ready for spring when the Tº starts raising down here!!! ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: July-14-2009 at 6:09pm
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Question: I will continue using the protec ignition till it dies.. hope it doesn´t when the boat is ready for the maiden trip
Does it have some kind of rev limiter. As the new engine set up will rev higher( hope), will I have problems? As I recall the module can´t be adjusted.... ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: jdkenyon
Date Posted: July-23-2009 at 3:50pm
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I am curious about the rev limiter as well. I had a stronger holeshot at Green Lake but only 50 more RPMS at the top end. It wouldn't go past 5,000. I expected a bigger difference being 3000 feet lower in elevation. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1955 - 94 Ski Nautique |