US Economy - American Manufacturing
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URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13510
Printed Date: January-06-2025 at 7:37am
Topic: US Economy - American Manufacturing
Posted By: skierbrant
Subject: US Economy - American Manufacturing
Date Posted: May-01-2009 at 12:03am
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Here is my 2 cents on what I see has been happening with the economy. 1st off, I started seeing a downward trend with the economy back in 2000 after President Clinton signed an agreement to allow the US to import (NAFTA) from China and made China the Most Favored Nation.
I came from the Tool and Die industry where we manufactured metal stamping dies mostly for the automotive industry. We saw a dramatic drop off of quoting in 2001. The main reason was because our customers started bragging how cheap they could buy tooling from China. What it costs us to buy steal, China was making two complete dies for. Well you certainly cant compete with that! America has always thrived on manufacturing. I dont know the numbers of how many smaller mom and pop shops that used to be around that are no longer, but I would say that the average income of most of the people working in them was around $70k. Most of these people are struggling finding different work making half of what they use to. It took 8 years to finally hit the rest of the US (housing etc.) and Im sure there is more involved than just that but that is what I have seen. Im still involved in manufacturing and its still a struggle to keep busy. I have had to lay off a dozen people in my department in the last three monthes and my company has let over 120 people go since last October. When is our government going to realize that we need to start taking care of our own country? I am interested of other views that you all have about what is happening to our economy! ------------- mailto:skierbrant@aol.com - Brant Augensen http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1536&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1989&yrend=1989 - My 89 Nautique |
Replies:
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-01-2009 at 10:28am
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for the record, old man bush conjured up Nafta and officially signed it before he left office. that same election year as it was revised to the likings....Clinton made it law after 6 short months in office
that was for the record, and i agree, the core of this country was manufacturing, its not a debate about what is a better car its about where is a better place to live....here or under the rule of the red dot...its time to be brainwashed again and if you purchase, label shop for products made here. thats all it would take, 1 year of refusing to purchase foriegn made goods. think about it ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-01-2009 at 10:34am
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all this sht is doing is bringing down the value of the dollar, the ones that are laid off permanantly are setting up store fronts....painting, landscaping, boat repair, plumbing.....the only thing is, to get the business they drop the prices, it creates competition and price drop along with qaulity drop. when i say de-value the dollar this is part of it, a house that was 300k is now 150k that means in reality 3 years ago you couldnt afford it but now that its priced where it should be in theory you now could afford to buy that same house ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: May-01-2009 at 10:51am
Votes apparently have price tags.  ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: 65 'cuda
Date Posted: May-01-2009 at 10:52am
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That's all wrong, we live in a post industrial economy now, (service sector), we're all going to eat at each others restaurants, buy insurance from each other and advertise on each others web sites, we don't need to make anything, just ask the politicians and the academics. It's much better for our economy if we can buy our goods at 30 cents on the dollar from china or mexico.
Brant is right, wall street wanted free trade, and they got it, they offshored all the jobs and leveraged the resulting profits in derivatives and securitized debt. The tipping point came last summer when energy prices quadrupled, now we were offshoring those last marginal dollars that were keeping the whole scheme afloat. Eighty years ago, Henry ford had it right, he knew then that he had to pay his workers enough to afford his cars. Got to go to work! ------------- Gary http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=941" rel="nofollow - 1965 Barracuda SS |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: May-01-2009 at 10:53am
Eric - this logic only works for those lucky enough to still have a job. FWIW, I have seen a shift away from sourcing in low-cost countries. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
eric lavine wrote:Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: May-01-2009 at 11:07am
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FairTax now and it all comes home...before another country does it; and a few are looking at it.
Nice Gary! ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-01-2009 at 11:55am
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Kapla or Luch put up some good examples of labor costs in a country that really has no industry....more people than work.
I still say we are all puppets and have no control including the President, last year was a good example of the rich getting richer....you got a cool million sitting around, gas is 2 bucks a gallon, they put a shortage scare out there, prior to the scare you dumped that milly into petrol stocks, it shoots up to 4 bucks a gallon and you pull out your 2 millys, the price doubled and so did the profits, inside info and the rich are have access to this info ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-01-2009 at 11:57am
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oh, and control of the info ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-01-2009 at 12:33pm
Brant, We (Wiconsin tool and Stamping) are seeing work come back from China! Yes, it's not much but something. They can't maintain the quality when needed. We too have seen our fair share of Chinese dies. I'm glad to see that comming to a end as well. We have been able to convince our customers that you get what you pay for. All of the chinese dies required more work ($$) here to correct them than what the purchase cost was!! Some came over without even been closed - the sample piece parts to the customer had been lazered and hand formed!!! Single piece wire burnt die plates 4 foot square (no bushings) do not make for a serviceable die. Steel? God doesn't even know what they use but a few hits in the press tells the truth!! It's a struggle in the stamping biz!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: h20loo
Date Posted: May-01-2009 at 2:09pm
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I find your comments interesting and hopeful(on my part). My son has recently been visiting campuses of schools where he has been accepted for Civil Engineering. At least three times I heard "tool and die is a dead trade and the Cdn Gov't is paying to retrain workers and a few are coming to our program". The statement was also made that a Cdn manufactured die worth$300,000 could be made offshore, imported with the tooling to set it up for 1/3 the cost. Rather than repair the die they would order a new one for less than the Cdn repair cost.
All of this is second hand but I have a few good friends that work for ATS and a college buddy who has a small tool and die firm and it really bothers me that we send so much of our raw materials offshore and buy so much inferior junk in return and still fall short on the balance of trade and I don't think the US is much different. Eric- what was the last article of clothing that you bought that was actually made in the US. I swear the only thing I have is the work socks my SIL knit for me from wool made just north of here.I use to be a big Eddie Bauer fan but even their sources have changed. Even some restoration car parts from a big US supplier came with China on them and must have been made from some of the dies that Peter talked about because they were way off. We still do make toilet paper though and yes it fits!!! Just a morning rant... ------------- 70 Mustang project |
Posted By: skierbrant
Date Posted: May-01-2009 at 4:27pm
Pete, It's good to hear that some of the work is coming back. It looks like the size of WTS is close to the size of the company where I was (Bank closed us in '03). Several of our biggest costomers closed their doors and really made it a struggle for us. We did see several cheap dies from China with 1/2" thick stripper plates and no die life. Made me sick. I worked at Chrysler Belvidere Assembly Plant in the Stamping Dept last year and all of their dies came from Korea. Talk about junk. Luckily with JIT, we would only run maybe 1000 hits at the most, and then would have to pull out and sharpen. Dies should last much longer than that. We used to run 20,000 pcs at a time and still not have much to fix. ------------- mailto:skierbrant@aol.com - Brant Augensen http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1536&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1989&yrend=1989 - My 89 Nautique |
Posted By: skierbrant
Date Posted: May-01-2009 at 4:36pm
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Pete,
Are you guys hiring? ------------- mailto:skierbrant@aol.com - Brant Augensen http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1536&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1989&yrend=1989 - My 89 Nautique |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-01-2009 at 5:18pm
Brant, No, it's real tough for us too. We are down to 4 day weeks and overlapping shifts so production is a 12 hour day. The only thing we have still going pretty strong is Tower Automotive frame parts for the Ford light trucks. Seems they are still selling! Junk old dies producing crude parts but it's keeping the presses running. We still have some Sony work - high end chassis that China couldn't handle!! Then it's just the ods and ends that any job shop stamper has. Our tool room is down to two tool makers and the foreman from the glory days of 3 shifts/30 toolmakers. Of course that was when we were building dies so about half of them we "new tool" and the rest repair. It's not pretty out there for tool and die makers. Yeh, thin stripper plates and one piece. Then there's the guide pins and bushings that look like toothpicks. You're lucky if the are caged ball bushings!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: harddock
Date Posted: May-01-2009 at 6:08pm
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The government involvement is not helping. It either taxes or overregulates to the point where business has to look to other areas, even other countries to be competitive. So many items these days are deemed throw away that the Chinese stuff (though inferior) is acceptable.
I live in an area that had thriving shoe and textile factories when I was a kid. They are all gone today. Everything that was made here is now foreign. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4487" rel="nofollow - 1998 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: skierbrant
Date Posted: May-01-2009 at 11:13pm
Rockford Tool Craft here in Rockford is the only die shop that has stayed fairly busy in this area. They have been in business since '76 and have added onto there buildings every year since. I heard that this year was the first year that they were slow. I never applied to work there because they were a competitor of ours and we live in a town where every die maker seems to know what you are up to! I hated that! It just doesn't seem like our government gets what they are doing to our country. Why would we want to take work away? Until they tax the heck out of imports, I'm not seeing much of an improvement for a while. ------------- mailto:skierbrant@aol.com - Brant Augensen http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1536&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1989&yrend=1989 - My 89 Nautique |
Posted By: skierbrant
Date Posted: May-01-2009 at 11:16pm
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I work for a fastener cold forming company now. We are down to 4 days a week also. All of us salaried personnel took a 10% pay cut in January and haven't seen it come back. April we got to take 5 days off without pay. And now Monday I get to tell 8 of my 69 people that they no longer have a job. I'm not to happy about that. ------------- mailto:skierbrant@aol.com - Brant Augensen http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1536&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1989&yrend=1989 - My 89 Nautique |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-02-2009 at 12:18am
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Brant,
Trust me, for the time being you're lucky with with only a 10% cut. I've been on a 20% (salaried) for several months as well as a week of no production/no pay but still had to come to work!! They (our employers) have us between the old proverbial "rock and a hard place". The "bad" ones know there's no place for us to go so they they are taking advantage of us!! The promises are there for a payback but I'm certainly not banking on it. Are you driving now between Rockford and Machesney Park, IL?? That's not a easy drive!!! BTW, in another thread, there is a comment regarding a union local walking out because there contract is expired. Where have these people been in the the last year????? Do they really now what's going on?? Union whores!! Yes, I have now opened myself up to a major controversy/can of worms!! Before it gets real deep. I'd like to say that the unions served a very good purpose. That was back in the days when they protected the worker from unfair or unsafe working conditions. Now, they are whores!! Before I get dumped on even farther, the "CEO's of the major corps are really and truly the biggest whores!!! Brant, you got me on a "roll"!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: May-02-2009 at 1:40am
I thought I was the only one who thought this. In June of 01 my wife's large telecommunications company offered her a early retirement which she took.To this day the company still has not recovered. 9/11 came along changing everyones lives, but the seeds were already planted. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: 79TiqueRebuild
Date Posted: May-02-2009 at 2:03am
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I know there is a lot of anti union feelings especially in these times. Yes there were good things that all workers have gotten because of the unions. And yes there are a lot of people that hide behind the unions. I feel that we (CWA) are just trying to keep what benefits we have for us and retirees and help the new workers just starting out ie two tier wages AT&T made 12.9 BILLION in profit last year.They also paid the top 5 Executives 33.5 MILLION in 2008. Not to mention their other perks. I feel that Corporate Greed started this whole mess. It used to be your spouse worked so you could get ahead now its just to keep afloat. The Middle class is a dieing breed and I like what Gary said Pay them enough so they can buy the cars. Thats my rant! Monty |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-02-2009 at 11:27am
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I still have a damn hard time figuring out who ok'd these loans and at what level, i dont think another bank would want to buy that risk either knowing default was down the road.
Ive seen these approved loan apps, 45k a year and they were buying a 350k house.....if that came across my desk a red flag would go up, my question is: how high up the ladder did these apps go because they had to go past the underwriters and to the managers desk and who approved them? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: harddock
Date Posted: May-02-2009 at 11:29am
I agree. They became too powerful. It is a shame that they don't have unions in all these foriegn countries. That would help level the playing field. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4487" rel="nofollow - 1998 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-02-2009 at 11:42am
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The unions are a topic on thier own, yes, there were needed at one time, the term protect the workers is an understatement, it protects them from wrong doings is all that means. now this is coming from working side by side with these guys and there is alot of good guys out there, but there were also alot of bad,
alot of ingredients killed the economy, a little greed, a little corruption, but i think the biggest economy killer is the Auto industry, it is a large tree with many branches that fed many families. everything ties into the industry. other countries are thriving THRIVING because of the choice we make to purchase thier products and a good indication of this is they are seeing the effects of our slow economy. our large tree is gone, gone, gone, and people are throwing thier hands up in the air and wondering what happened? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: May-02-2009 at 12:06pm
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Take from this what you will...
Chris Rock said something to the tune of "we can send a man to the moon and we can't make a caddy with a front bumper that don't fall off"... ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-02-2009 at 12:19pm
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Imagine, 30 years probably in the 100 millions, buying something anywhere from $6000.00 to nowadays $40,000 that adds up to a number that doesnt exist, put it all in a box and send it to another country.
that other country recieves the box which empowers them, now, we can build nukes, we can build manufacture plants, we can pay our army, fck, we can do anything we damn well please....sht the US did it in the 50's 60's and 70's and they gave up that power. life is like a game of Risk (milton Bradley) no different. we are looking for someone to put the blame on, the government, the housing collapse, bad products blah blah blah, in hind sight the consumer created the problems, anyway you spin it. Now, you have a choice, to be part of the problem or part of the solution, it took 30 years for China and Japan to become what it is today because of the US consumer, we have the ability as the consumer to make the choice not for us but for our kids. sorry guys, its a simple fix ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-02-2009 at 12:36pm
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imagine if that money stayed here....... ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: May-02-2009 at 12:46pm
1 more time...FairTax. It's estimated that 13 trillion would come home. Companies go where they can afford to be in business. Irish revolution? ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-02-2009 at 12:50pm
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now that would be some cash flow..im for fair tax Greg, with brackets, i feel the rich should pay more taxes ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-02-2009 at 12:55pm
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and a cazillion if we purchased all US products lol ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 79TiqueRebuild
Date Posted: May-02-2009 at 1:22pm
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Yeah!!
Was that a sucking sound I've been hearing? |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-02-2009 at 1:30pm
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In general fellow Americans have a tendency to not get involved unless it affects them, Well, the current economy is affecting us all and I can see that just in these forums, people are starting to talk, hands in the air, what happened, who did it, why?? I may yack alot about this sht, but i truly seen this coming 10 years ago, im not an economist, but its as simple as running your check book at home, nothing coming in nothing going out...simple economics, good thing for that two week course lol,
its a matter of making just one person realize whats going on and maybe he can make one person realize whats going on...we all fcd up, but we need to know why, its my opinion but maybe it will make you think differently and you will say maybe he's right, maybe he's wrong, but at least it will make you think and you can form your own opinion. one good thing about the society we live in, we can think on our own and make choices on our own with no gun to our head, nobody forces you to do anything that you dont want to do. Im feeling the pressure at work I wake up thinking about it and go to sleep thinking about, businesses are dropping like flies and its the same conversation over and over, the phone rings and most of the time its the collecters looking for a payment, one good thing is im not the only one they are calling lol ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: May-02-2009 at 1:37pm
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Eric, check your e-mail! ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: 79TiqueRebuild
Date Posted: May-02-2009 at 1:40pm
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It seems to me that nobody stays focused on a problem long enough to do something.
Too busy,TV,etc. somebody else will fix it. We need to wake up see whats happening and realize the mess we are leaving for our children. United we stand Divided we beg! |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-02-2009 at 1:46pm
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thats the problem with a free society, if it keeps heading in the direction it is, it will eventually turn into a third world country
the rich and the poor, and ive been in some third worlds and it aint pretty. a good indication of socialism is government workers arnt being laid off, all in the manufacturing sector the layoffs are hitting, we will eventually have more people than work and you know what that means ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-02-2009 at 1:49pm
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Monty, i will stay focused and will commit from this day forward to the day i die, I will never ever purchase a foriegn made car and will choose an American product over a foriegn
299,000,000 to go lol, someone is going to shoot me one these days ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: May-02-2009 at 1:51pm
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We have too many people...we also have too many people voting for a living.
------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-02-2009 at 1:53pm
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Kristoff that includes Budweiser, how the fck could the Americans loose Annheiser Busch it baffles me ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-02-2009 at 1:55pm
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I wonder if our flag rights are for sale? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 79TiqueRebuild
Date Posted: May-02-2009 at 2:03pm
| In these days its hard to tell who owns what and where it was made. |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-02-2009 at 2:14pm
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all i care about is feeding my family, and getting laid once in while ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: harddock
Date Posted: May-02-2009 at 7:24pm
I dunno about rights but the flags themselves are being printed in China. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4487" rel="nofollow - 1998 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: 65 'cuda
Date Posted: May-02-2009 at 8:40pm
Truer words were never spoken! The world would be a better place... Give me call when you get a chance 513 240 2697 ------------- Gary http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=941" rel="nofollow - 1965 Barracuda SS |
Posted By: jbear
Date Posted: May-03-2009 at 3:12am
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Monty: Any word on the contract? Remember to keep us retired guys in mind. To many of the younger guys seem to forget who came along first and why they have the bennies they enjoy.
john ------------- "Loud pipes save lives" AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-03-2009 at 11:31am
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like in the old days, drink a few and your afraid to rollover and see whats next to you, sometimes i get that feeling when i read yesterday's post's ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: May-03-2009 at 11:53am
I think our government is going to fix all this. They have formed a subcommitee to investigate the College Bowl Series. Of course they have all the other problems solved, probably just haven't scheduled the press release yet! ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-03-2009 at 12:16pm
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it seems as if someone got to Jabberjaw already and told him the STFU ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: skierbrant
Date Posted: May-03-2009 at 10:36pm
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How long will it take for the rest of the country to figure out what went wrong? You guys are right that most people know the economy sucks but don't really understand why, so they just sit back and wait.
My problem is that I'm sick of waiting for someone else to fix it. I've got one year before my oldest daughter starts college and right now I'm screwed! I'm certainly in no position financially to support her. The housing market sucks so I can't afford to give my house away (I live on the river and would rather not move anyway). Now that I have everyone worked up, any ideas to help ourselves out of this mess? We can complain until we are blue in the face but that, unfortunately will not help our situation. I go nuts at night trying to figure out what can be done to help but just can't put a finger on it yet. Zig Zigler says, "we have to look forward. If you look back, you will miss the next opportunity". ------------- mailto:skierbrant@aol.com - Brant Augensen http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1536&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1989&yrend=1989 - My 89 Nautique |
Posted By: skierbrant
Date Posted: May-03-2009 at 10:45pm
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I have several ideas that may be something worth while but haven't tried to do anything with them yet. I'm not sure how many manufacturing guys we have here but we should be able to come with many ideas. I already know a stamper to make some parts! ------------- mailto:skierbrant@aol.com - Brant Augensen http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1536&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1989&yrend=1989 - My 89 Nautique |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: May-04-2009 at 12:40am
Eric nailed it. We should start buying 'Made in USA' whenever possible. We could turn this around in a year! I might even start buying E-10! ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: skierbrant
Date Posted: May-04-2009 at 12:59am
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I do agree that we need to buy American when ever possible but the only problem that I have with that, is what is really made in America? From a stamping point, how many parts on an American automobile are actually made in the US? Back in 2000, my company stamped over 1 million seat tracks for the Nissan Pathfinder. We also stamped parking break assembly parts for Nissan. Don't get me wrong, I own 3 vehicles that each came from the Big Three but from what I see so far, American cars aren't all American parts. I heard that the Honda Accord had more American parts than any other vehicle (don't have true facts but just what I heard). ------------- mailto:skierbrant@aol.com - Brant Augensen http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1536&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1989&yrend=1989 - My 89 Nautique |
Posted By: skierbrant
Date Posted: May-04-2009 at 1:03am
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One good thing I see with tools is that the Chinese tool prices are starting to go up. This is good news. Hopefully the consumer will figure out that maybe it is better to buy the better made American product than spend a few dollars less for a piece of crap! ------------- mailto:skierbrant@aol.com - Brant Augensen http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1536&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1989&yrend=1989 - My 89 Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-04-2009 at 10:23am
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it may not be the problem, but its a start in the right direction, whats going on now doesnt work...you cant keep buying and selling paper for a profit, paper means stock...you need something liquid, a product, we had the product and it worked. I cant think of anything else that happened the last 30 years that created these problems were having. again, my family drives burners and i dont have a problem with it, or if you drive one, its my opinion on what i think is wrong with the economy, thats it and its pretty hard to dispute ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-04-2009 at 10:30am
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fck it, its simple, you buy an american car, it puts the auto worker back to work, (with concessions after bancrupcy) lol he buys a boat, now the boat dealer is back on top selling boats again, his boat brakes he brings it to me, now i have a handful of cash from the repair now i can go have some chilly ones at the local hole, I spend money there with all my friends, leave her a big tip now she can have her nails done, now that nail person...trickle down ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: May-04-2009 at 10:35am
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My 2 Chevy trucks were made in Canada. Aren't they imports? Do the Canadians unions have the same contracts as the American unions? ------------- |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-04-2009 at 11:58am
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from Erics dictionary: Import, an item that crossed over a large body of water, an item that was at one time US technology but stolen, a solid object that came from a land we rebuilt and traded for currency which left us short, an item that the US consumer got baited and switched,
really though, the US car manufacturers really tried to push some POS's on us in the 80's....k-car, chevette, tempo, shame on them ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-04-2009 at 12:02pm
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Dont worry guy's, the early 40's we experienced the same thing, and the formula back then pretty much worked, the war put everyone back to work and the country thrived, I dont condone war but i do condone putting everyone back to work and really the only option is the auto industry ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: skierbrant
Date Posted: May-04-2009 at 4:18pm
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The war has kept some of our parts going strong(for the Hummer)which is good these days.
I would love to buy a new car today but I need more money coming in to help. We have the domino effect right now and no one wants to spend money. ------------- mailto:skierbrant@aol.com - Brant Augensen http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1536&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1989&yrend=1989 - My 89 Nautique |
Posted By: skierbrant
Date Posted: May-04-2009 at 4:21pm
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Another thing that does bother me is that now a days, it seems like accountants are running business's instead of work flow. All they care about is how good the books look instead of getting the job done on time so you can get more work. ------------- mailto:skierbrant@aol.com - Brant Augensen http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1536&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1989&yrend=1989 - My 89 Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-04-2009 at 7:24pm
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that caught up with them, it was common practice to fudge the books and show profits for the investors, and the investors kept dumping money into the companies, that includes me and you with 401's, and then they took the money and ran, leaving about a 40% hit across the board. ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 65 'cuda
Date Posted: May-04-2009 at 10:54pm
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The game was laid out 10 to 15 years ago, once 401k's became this huge fire hose pumping money at wall street, the idea for the wall streeter's was to "create value" for the investors and earn their fees.(How to grab as much of the money as possible) and get away with it.
Once the investment banks realized what a cash cow the 401k contributions were, they simply had to look ahead and figure out when the fire hose was going to get turned off. A huge proportion of the baby boomers are set to retire between 2112 and 2115, so its safe to say they would begin pulling their money out of stocks and into savings. The bankers needed to create a large enough, long enough stock bubble to pull as much of this money in, so they could take theirs before the inevitable exodus by the boomers. Their timing got wacked by the triple play of The dollar being devalued by GW's spending, the Housing bubble and bust, and the foretelling spike in energy prices, the banks did not have time to cover their positions. Looking forward, now is a great opportunity for the this country to regain some of its footing. Housing prices are more in line with incomes, american small businesses will find a way to offer value, and the talent pool in the job market is the best in years. ------------- Gary http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=941" rel="nofollow - 1965 Barracuda SS |
Posted By: skierbrant
Date Posted: May-05-2009 at 2:51am
Now is a great time to hire if you have the work to support it. There are many talented people out there wasting away. I do worry when business does pick up that the talent will not be there and we will find ourselves trying to retrain. I know I wouldn't recommend any young kids to go in the direction of manufacturing, engineering. ------------- mailto:skierbrant@aol.com - Brant Augensen http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1536&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1989&yrend=1989 - My 89 Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-05-2009 at 10:06am
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what can be done to spur new business or create jobs? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: skierbrant
Date Posted: May-05-2009 at 4:13pm
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That is the question of the hour! The best way to come up with ideas is brainstorming with the right group of people. Coming up with new products is always great but there may be demand on something that already exists that needs more competition.
what ever each of us does, being able to employ at least yourself and possibly more is the goal. That way there is money to spend! Does that make sense? ------------- mailto:skierbrant@aol.com - Brant Augensen http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1536&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1989&yrend=1989 - My 89 Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-06-2009 at 10:05am
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something that wears out every 4 or 5 years? 3 in the drive? something most have to finance? its a renewable source of income, unlike a house, once its built its built.
it makes sense to me ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: May-06-2009 at 11:13am
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Adding value by making a raw material useful is the only real way for a society to create wealth.
Insuring mortgages isn't in this group! The wall street types are just stealing other people's money, they are like leeches. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-06-2009 at 11:35am
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as in the logging industry, they finally figured out that they better plant new sapplings, its is a renewable source of income ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Waterdog
Date Posted: May-06-2009 at 5:54pm
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My freinds bread & butter is repair & fabrication of logging equipment. He say's a logger can f-up an anvil with a rotten banana. ------------- - waterdog - http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3896&sort=&pagenum=2&yrstart=1978&yrend=1978" rel="nofollow - 78 Ski Tique |
Posted By: skierbrant
Date Posted: May-06-2009 at 11:34pm
The US needs manufacturing to keep everyone busy and prosperous! It's time to bring it back! ------------- mailto:skierbrant@aol.com - Brant Augensen http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1536&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1989&yrend=1989 - My 89 Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-07-2009 at 9:56am
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I agree ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-07-2009 at 10:22am
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bottem line, tag shop and purchase US products whenever possible, sometimes its impossible.
if you are dead against american cars, go test drive one and compare, I think you'll be surprised ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: skierbrant
Date Posted: May-07-2009 at 4:19pm
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When a company goes bankrupt, should workers be off of work still making their same paycheck week after week? That sh*t has to stop. It's no wonder Chrysler filed bankruptcy! These unions are raping companies. Now I hear that salaried personnel are only collecting unemployment during this restructuring period. That makes sense to me. Just my observation.
I am happy to hear that Ford is not taking any money from the Government. They must being doing something right. ------------- mailto:skierbrant@aol.com - Brant Augensen http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1536&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1989&yrend=1989 - My 89 Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-08-2009 at 10:11am
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first good news I've heard in a long time....Toyoyta posts a 4.4 billion dollar loss.... ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-08-2009 at 10:19am
 ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-08-2009 at 10:19am
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Chrysler parking lot at 8:30 in the morning ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-08-2009 at 10:20am
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Chrysler parking lot in the morning ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Kristof
Date Posted: May-08-2009 at 10:45am
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8.30 in the morning... Either your camera or you are not telling the truth...
But anyway, it's a shame to see that parking empty. ------------- - Gun control means: using BOTH hands! - Money doesn't make one happy, but when it rains cats and dogs, it's still better to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle... |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-08-2009 at 11:33am
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actually it appears as it was 10 minutes before 8:00 in the morning, besides they use to run three shifts and the lot was never empty
20:50 military? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: azeus17
Date Posted: May-08-2009 at 11:45am
Man! Have you guys not heard what Greg (Buffalo) has been screaming?!?! FAIRTAX I know you want brackets, Eric, but the FairTax does not work that way. Can you imagine the checkout girl at the grocery store asking you how much money you make so she knows how much tax to charge you??? That is just rediculous. If you want to stimulate business, cut all taxes for doing business int he US. When businesses prosper, they hire more workers. Those workers buy cars, eat out, just like you explained Eric, trickle down. I do not understand how the current administration figures that they can save us from our current econemy by raising taxes. Even taxing the rich is stupid. They are the ones creating jobs. And, I know what you are going to say, but I don't care. The rich need/want to make a certain amount of money, so if you tax them a bunch, what are they going to do? Lay off a few people to cover the new tax you just levied against them. This is not that hard. Think about it this way, Eric. If your company did not have to pay any taxes, how much more money would you have to play with? Maybe you could lower your prices to attract new business and then hire a new mechanic to support the new business and so on and so on. It really is that simple. Sorry, I will shut up now. ------------- Boats: Current: 02 SANTE Sold: 89 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: May-08-2009 at 12:05pm
Thanks for reading the book Adam! 
What's up with stories showing up on Drudge early and then disappearing? 2 big stories in 2 days...poof. I wonder why they go poof?!!? 1 of those stories was this morning about Obama wanting to double the money spent to collect taxes...  ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-08-2009 at 1:56pm
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Brackets on income, straight sales tax across the board, lets say 10%.
2 things are certain my friends, taxes and death, in my eyes it is a privlidge to drive in this country and pay taxes in this country...the first pothole you guys hit on a federal interstate, you would blame the government, the governments source of income is taxes, fck you hand the old lady $100.00 bill and dont think twice about. this country is what it is because of taxation. now that Chrysler is gone in our city, so is the tax base, shty schools, snow on the streets, no leave pick up, no rec center taxes are a part of life....Chrysler is not gone because of taxation its gone because no one was buying. thats the way it works. these companies close and the revenue from them goes along with it, how do you make up the revenue? from the city all the way up to the federal government ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: May-08-2009 at 2:01pm
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Now I got 'ya...tell me WHY people aren't buying. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: critter
Date Posted: May-08-2009 at 2:19pm
I have been paying taxes for the last 35 years and still have (or do not have) these listed items. Guy with a tractor down the street moves the snow off the road, if he is bored. I have to haul my own leaves off. I pass Rec Centers in the high end neighborhoods or in towns that are too far away. So are you saying my taxes should be lower than yours ?? I bet they ain't.... ------------- 1980 Ski Nautique 1966 Barracuda |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-08-2009 at 3:02pm
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Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh i pay my share, dont like it but i do, one reason people are not buying is because the banks are not lending money, here is a good example, my family got pizza every friday night and i told the wife to lay off the pizza's for a few months, that was 100.00 per month. i quit going to lunch everyday brought in a grill and cook at work, that saves probably 150.00 a month.....why am i not buying, im doing it to survive. but now the pizza joint is hurting and my local eatery ishurting ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: May-08-2009 at 3:07pm
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If you paid a little less, you could spend a little more.
I'm surprised you aren't worried about the dihydrogen monoxide... ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-08-2009 at 3:24pm
Watch out as Greg is testing all of our knowledge here! BTW, I had to google it!!!! "The dihydrogen monoxide hoax involves listing negative effects of water under an unfamiliar scientific name, then asking individuals to help control the seemingly dangerous substance. The hoax is designed to illustrate how the lack of scientific knowledge and an exaggerated analysis can lead to misplaced fears.[1] Dihydrogen monoxide, shortened to DHMO, is a scientific name for water that, while technically correct, is almost never used." ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: May-08-2009 at 3:34pm
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Doggone it Pete, Eric is exactly who I went fishing for! LOL
I had forgotten the joke until the 'grandmother' where I get my hair cut started passing out a sonogram of her foot as a baby. She got 2 people with that...I got everyone there! 
Remind me to tell the whole story at GL.  ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: skierbrant
Date Posted: May-08-2009 at 4:28pm
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We know that we will always have to pay taxes and like everything else we buy, taxes have gone up too. Because of what is happening in this country, I agree that taxes will need to come down. It just feels like we are going backwards as a nation about 20-30 years. Since pay scales are dropping, everything else will have to follow suite. ------------- mailto:skierbrant@aol.com - Brant Augensen http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1536&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1989&yrend=1989 - My 89 Nautique |
Posted By: skierbrant
Date Posted: May-08-2009 at 4:33pm
Eric, where do you live? We have the Belvidere Assembly Plant (Chrysler) about 20 minutes away from our house. I assume the parking lot looks the same here. Sad, but makes me mad that all the union workers are still getting a pay check. Salaried people are all collecting unemployment. ------------- mailto:skierbrant@aol.com - Brant Augensen http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1536&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1989&yrend=1989 - My 89 Nautique |
Posted By: harddock
Date Posted: May-08-2009 at 4:37pm
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I agree with buying American until the fairing for my Road King is over $1,000 less and the quality is good from Hong Kong. I am rubenesque and can't buy a shirt to support a sport team (or Ski Nautique for that matter)in anything over 2x unless it comes from Hong Kong. If they can supply the product for 1/2 price or just supply the product what's a person to do. I do have a Kenticky Ford truck, Millwake Harley, Illinois, John Deere, Californis,and a Florida CorrectCraft, so I try when I can. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4487" rel="nofollow - 1998 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-08-2009 at 7:00pm
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Im in Aurora Ohio, many friends from the stamping plant.
its a double edged sword, its the competition that drives the price. at one time the fairing may have been $500.00 which is reasonable, now you got a company that can make it for less, so the 10,000 of these $500.00 fiarings arnt selling anymore because you can buy them for $250.00 from China, it hurts the company's bottem line and all its employees, to compensate for the shortfall they have to raise the price to $1000.00. you need the same volume or you have to raise the price. now the hong congers see this and say they are getting $1000.00 for these fairings, instead of $250.00 lets charge them $750.00 and they will still buy. the same philosophy works in the auto industry. thats why i said in a post if we stuck to the plan, cars would be 12,000 today insted of $25,000 ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: harddock
Date Posted: May-08-2009 at 7:15pm
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Exactly, but it's hard to spend double. If we taxed imports that same item would not be such a bargain.
Now part two if Americans can't supply a simple thing like a T shirt in xxxl or xxxxl then I am forced to buy from a foreign source. There are enough folks that would buy them. A good example is the Nautique life vest on sale here. I pay extra and don't object for the larger sizes, but the companies can't be bothered to produce them. perhaps it is because it costs so much to print instructions in English and Spanish. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4487" rel="nofollow - 1998 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-08-2009 at 7:59pm
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plus the taxes would create a stronger government, and less burden on the citizens ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: May-08-2009 at 8:01pm
Say What?!!? OMG, WTF?!!? ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: Kristof
Date Posted: May-08-2009 at 8:04pm
Sounds crazy to you guys, but nothing new in our parts... ------------- - Gun control means: using BOTH hands! - Money doesn't make one happy, but when it rains cats and dogs, it's still better to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle... |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: May-08-2009 at 8:06pm
Please elaborate! By the way, I didn't forget about you. Minicraft said they'd get back with me but haven't. I'll call them again. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: Kristof
Date Posted: May-08-2009 at 8:27pm
Greg, about 60% of our gross wages go into taxes. But on the other hand... We have free medical care, unemployment help, pension funds,... All regulated by the government. Thanks for keeping the heads up with Minicraft. No stress, my friend, as I am happy that the boat runs like a charm (which was my first priority for this ski season). The cosmetic work to restore her to her total glory is a project spread over the next two years... ------------- - Gun control means: using BOTH hands! - Money doesn't make one happy, but when it rains cats and dogs, it's still better to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle... |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: May-08-2009 at 9:10pm
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http://boortz.com/nealz_nuze/2009/05/340000000000000.html - $3,400,000,000,000.00 ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: May-08-2009 at 9:40pm
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How many weeks/year do people have for vacation over there Kristof? I haven't taken a week in 3 years, and I have not had 2 off together in over 30 years. Maybe higher taxes isn't such a bad idea? ------------- |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: May-08-2009 at 9:49pm
It's not even tax day yet for many people...at least people who pay taxes. May 8 and we're still working for Uncle Sam?!!? ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: May-08-2009 at 10:03pm
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Our founding fathers can't be smiling. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |