Big Hole and small hole in Tee
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1368
Printed Date: November-22-2024 at 3:54pm
Topic: Big Hole and small hole in Tee
Posted By: Jim_In_Houston
Subject: Big Hole and small hole in Tee
Date Posted: March-23-2005 at 5:16pm
While reassembling my '68 289 Ford (Interceptor) I have discovered the T in the cooling water plumbing system (see top red circle in pic) has a small diameter (restricted) outlet opening on one side and a larger diameter outlet opening (no restriction)on the other side. (I have repainted the T blue as you can see in the bottom of the pic.) I assume the restricted end couples to the port side exhaust manifold to prevent most of the cooling water from being pumped directly into the exhaust manifold. Does anyone know if I am right or wrong? (I am guessing.) ------------- Happy owner of a '66 and a '68 Mustang |
Replies:
Posted By: Siveck
Date Posted: March-23-2005 at 8:54pm
|
I would guess the same thing that you have guessed. It only seems obvious that the motor and other manifold would require more than just the manifold. 2 votes for restricted end to the port exhaust manifold.
|
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: March-23-2005 at 11:33pm
|
hmmm. just remember the thermostat is an outlet, there should be no water entering the engine from that direction; I'm not saying that changes your conclusions, but something to consider
|
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: March-24-2005 at 12:17am
| Jim you are correct as to the proper placement of the tee fitting. small hole to port so water can feed both manifolds the same. look at the picture the water is outside of the thermosate. when it opens the is directed to inside the motor. |
Posted By: Jim_In_Houston
Date Posted: March-24-2005 at 1:21am
|
I will take your word for it Woody. It's too confusing for me. It seems to me that when the thermostat opens the engine circulating pump and the raw water pump will be working against each other. This is what made me think perhaps, I have it wrong and I should have put the small hole towards the thermostat (starboard).
Thanks all... ------------- Happy owner of a '66 and a '68 Mustang |
Posted By: mackwrench
Date Posted: March-24-2005 at 4:15am
|
Does the hose from the raw water pump run to that "tee"? or is it from the bottom of the engine circulating pump? If it's a "reverse rotation" engine it may circulate the coolant like woody says, The hose from the intake to the engine circulating pump is a "bypass" hose that lets some water pass through until the t-stat opens. My CC ford does not have a engine circulating pump, only a raw pump and it ain't plumb'ed nothing like that...any rate just my .02 ------------- NO LONGER A MEMBER |
Posted By: Tim D
Date Posted: March-24-2005 at 12:46pm
|
My '66 Mustang has the same piece in the same place. That's why I notice more water coming out one exhaust than the other. Remember, the water pump on the block pushes water into the motor, water goes out at the thermostat, not in. On mine, the smaller end is toward the thermostat, I guess to keep it from getting too cool on the back side,which would make it stay closed all the time, you know that water needs to cool the exhaust manifolds all the time regardless it the thermostat is open or closed. And it passes across the thermostat to get to the exhaust on the driver side. ------------- Tim D |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: March-24-2005 at 1:19pm
|
I concur with Tim D,
cool water entering a thermostat will close it, compromising temp control. It must be an outlet. Where is the big hose on the circulating pump comming from? |
Posted By: Jim_In_Houston
Date Posted: March-24-2005 at 2:27pm
|
The hose entering the front of the T comes from the raw water pump.
The raw water pump sends water to the large inlet pipe on the circulating pump AND to the T on the top I have pictured. (There is another T on the outlet of the raw water pump for this.) Unless someone is definatly sure TimD is incorrect I will now flip my T over and position the small hole towards the thermostat. What I expext from this is my starboard manifold will not flow much water until the thermostat opens. None of us want to burn up an engine or a manifold. BTW, the differences in hole sizes is not appearant when you pull the T off if you leave the old hoses connected to the T. I later yanked the hoses off and began buffing the old T on a wire wheel when I noticed the different hole sizes. (Too late). There is an arrow cast into the T that indicates flow but I have no reference material to tell me which way the arrow is supposed to point. The arrow is probably cast into your T and is plainly visable Tim. Beware CC engine rebuilders. Thanks all again!!! ------------- Happy owner of a '66 and a '68 Mustang |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: March-24-2005 at 3:25pm
|
Water will flow the path of least resistantance. So by having the larger opening of the tee pointed to the exhaust manifold will result in more water flowing to that exhaust manifold regardless of the t-stat being opened or closed. With this configuration you run the risk of not have enough water flow to cool the block when the t-stat opens thus you have one really hot exhaust manifold & engine block and one really cold exhaust manifold.
The proper set-up for this is to have the larger opening of the tee towards the t-stat housing so the section of hose between the tee and t-stat housing acts as a manifold to supply equal flow to both exhaust manifolds at all times. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: March-24-2005 at 3:35pm
|
I vote Tim D is all wet and doesn't have it correct. My money is on Woody who happens to be a very knowledgable Correct Craft employee for those that don't know what he does. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: Tim D
Date Posted: March-24-2005 at 4:14pm
|
So 79nautique, did you look at that photo? That T sends water out both exhaust while the thermostat is closed to constantly cool the exhaust manifolds. The T just happens to be closer to the manifold on the right. I believe the smaller opening should face the thermostat to keep that fresh water from cooling the thermostat so much as it passes by. I don't think it would really hurt anything regardless which way it is installed, I just know a little more water comes out the exhaust pipe on one side than the other. Woody said water goes in the thermostat, I thought it came out the thermostat. ------------- Tim D |
Posted By: Tim D
Date Posted: March-24-2005 at 4:16pm
|
I'm off next week and I'll check mine to see which way it is but I know it (T)looks like Jim's. ------------- Tim D |
Posted By: Jim_In_Houston
Date Posted: March-24-2005 at 4:21pm
|
Thanks Tim. Look for the arrow cast into the T itself. This is pretty important and others may one day run into it too. Thanks again all. -jim ------------- Happy owner of a '66 and a '68 Mustang |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: March-25-2005 at 12:50pm
| Tim D I guess if the t-stat is put in backwards that would be an issue but since the part that acually opens the t-stat is on the opposite side of the cold water it will not effect it. It all boils down to flow and volume and mounting it the way you suggest is creating an un equal flow and restricting the flow to the engine which is the worst thing you can do so mount it any way you please I'm not riding it and don't care to. |
Posted By: David F
Date Posted: March-25-2005 at 2:22pm
| My vote is with 79Nautique and Woody. You want most of the water routed to the engine where some will be forced past the t-state to the oppisite side exhaust manifold. the small opening facing the near side exhaust manifold ensures almost equal water flow to both manifolds after t-stat opens. Feed the engine not one manifold! |
Posted By: Tim D
Date Posted: March-25-2005 at 3:15pm
|
If you think water goes in the motor at the thermostat I don't want you near my boat either. This T he refers to has nothing to do with water going in the motor. If you take the water pump off and look on the timing chain cover, those two holes is where water goes in the motor. ------------- Tim D |
Posted By: David F
Date Posted: March-25-2005 at 4:05pm
| Ok Tim, thanks. I am sure you are correct |
Posted By: 64 Skier
Date Posted: March-27-2005 at 10:46am
|
Not trying to be argumentative, but here's what I've experienced with my boats....
Another way to plumb the "T" is with the smaller port to the sea water pump. This would balance the flow to either exhaust manifold and would allow the block to have more of the cool water at higher RPM's since the restriction would send more water to the block. Even at high RPM's the exhaust still get's all the water directly from the sea water pump and from the thermostat discharge. The thermostat valve cannot be pumped into after opening. The greater pressure needed to pump into the engine would force the valve to close. The engine has more water pressure inside the block than outside the block/thermostat so again, and sorry to be repetitive, but water will not enter the block through the thermostat. In the block, the sea water pump and engine recirc pump pressures are additive...they work together. Outside the block on the thermostat side there is only sea water pump pressure which is less....especially it has the restriction to the pump. ------------- 64 Skier 66" HO VTX and 67" HO Triumph http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1071&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1971&yrend=1975 - 71CC |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: March-27-2005 at 12:43pm
| Tim disagree all you want you are wrong. You are not taking into consideration the other hose that is in the system. No one has said that this is going to reverse the flow. What happens is when the t-stat opens is now almost all of the flow goes to the other hose (1.25" diameter hose that goes from the t-stat housing to the circulation pump). You shouldn't drive a GM car either because I've designed a lot of engine components for them as well so bad mouth the LS1, QUAD 4, and Northstar motors all you want. |
Posted By: Jim_In_Houston
Date Posted: March-27-2005 at 1:46pm
|
End of discussion. I got my engine running last night. I placed the T according to Woody. Water flows and my engine cools correctly. It appears that an equal amount of water flows from each exhaust before and after the t-stat opens. Thanks all for taking the time to post. What a great forum! ------------- Happy owner of a '66 and a '68 Mustang |
Posted By: Tim D
Date Posted: March-30-2005 at 7:11pm
|
79Nautique, I wasn't the one who said feed the engine not the exhaust(David F). I know the other hose sends water to the engine, Woody mentioned water entering the thermostat, not me. Regardless which way the T is, more hot water will exit the manifold on the driver side because thats the direction of flow from the raw water pump. Again, like I said before and you refuse to admit, this T has nothing to do with water going in the motor, it just sends a constant supply to the exhuast manifolds, there's another T before it that sends water to the circ. pump. ------------- Tim D |
Posted By: David F
Date Posted: March-31-2005 at 5:57pm
|
I meant to say the main flow should feed the engine not the exhaust. Of course the exhaust needs cooling water at all times.
I am glad Jim got it sorted and all is well. |