Maybe it's just me?
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URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14156
Printed Date: January-07-2025 at 4:53pm
Topic: Maybe it's just me?
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Subject: Maybe it's just me?
Date Posted: June-25-2009 at 11:29am
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How does this sound?
"The Constitution is basically a restraint on government; it's not a mandate on government." ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Replies:
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: June-25-2009 at 12:14pm
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I knew you couldnt stay in the closet long, written to satisfy ones needs ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: June-25-2009 at 1:28pm
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Comments on what I put in quotes?
True or false ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: Kristof
Date Posted: June-25-2009 at 3:58pm
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I kinda agree... ------------- - Gun control means: using BOTH hands! - Money doesn't make one happy, but when it rains cats and dogs, it's still better to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle... |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: June-25-2009 at 4:45pm
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There is a reason it starts out "We the people . . ." not "They the rulers". ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: June-25-2009 at 10:45pm
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Barney Frank said this last night on The Factor(Bill O'Reilly).
I tried to add the link...google O'Reilly, Barney Frank and you'll find it. Last time I heard, the Constitution was law and requires an amendment to change it. Absolutely no offense meant, but if you voted for this guy...I'll sell you the Okefenokee swamp cheap. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: June-26-2009 at 9:47am
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Greg, I am so disgusted with current events and the past events, its pitiful, as a country we really should be ashamed, we were a beacon for the world, Id like to hear some of the opinions of our fellow friends oversea's.....I bet they are chuckling ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: June-26-2009 at 10:23am
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I wanna know what Kris means by 'I kinda agree'
I think many are disgusted with things in general. That may be why we see very little traffic on these political posts for a while. I'm surprised at the lack of outrage on that statement I put in quotes, but I do expect to hear it discussed on the radio today. Maybe it's the dumbassification of America? ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: June-26-2009 at 11:20am
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when your Mother calls you crying saying she took a 50% hit, i worked all my life for you boys, and then the taxpayer picks up the burden? im so fcin pissed off, we went down to city hall to have our real estate taxes re-evaluated here at the business..yeah right, it was appraised close to the 7 digits 4 years ago with the business and a recent appraisal came in at less than half, i really think the taxes should be adjusted ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: June-26-2009 at 11:51am
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Eric, if they drop the whole city by a half, they've got to double the mil rate to keep the same revenue coming in. Now if you have the only property that went down in value, that's another story.
Greg, it's not the "dumbassification of America", but a lot of people that have been political junkies for along time just don't GAF anymore, otherwise we'd be crazy. I rarely discuss politics anymore with anyone. I live in a city that the Greens are making more headway than anywhere else in the country. If you think liberal Dems are bad, wait till the Greens start running your area. They are from another planet. ------------- |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: June-26-2009 at 12:44pm
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Well put Bruce. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: June-26-2009 at 1:52pm
Hey Bruce could pictures like this be the cause of the "Greens" making headway in your area?  ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Riley wrote:
Posted By: jimsport93
Date Posted: June-26-2009 at 2:47pm
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Greg,
The Constitution is a mandate to government. Our Founding Fathers feared the power of government. The Constitution defined the proper role of government and reigned in the size and scope of government. I would call our current situation treasonous. Our money/power hungry/vote buying legislators have sworn to uphold the Constitution...maybe they should read it! I say we should run them all out. Jimsport93 ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2798 - 93 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: June-26-2009 at 2:49pm
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Gary, that picture was taken in the rural town of Sebago, which fortunately, is still a red town. ------------- |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: June-26-2009 at 5:06pm
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They won't even read the cap and tax bill they're trying to shove through.
Cal your congressmen...PLEASE! ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: June-26-2009 at 5:34pm
Still funny tho Bruce I'm still laughing, were going to have a fun time at GL ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: June-27-2009 at 12:10am
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Riley, then its time to cut some spending down at city hall, im sick of paying. I cut back so can they ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Luchog
Date Posted: June-27-2009 at 1:08am
Well, I havent ran out of my daily ration of political opinions for boatforums today, so ask away before I do! ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2095" rel="nofollow - 1980 Ski Nautique Commander 351W |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: June-27-2009 at 10:00am
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allright Luch, how do you view the US and Americans currently, be honest. I'll be honest, I made many trips to south America in the 90's and i got the feeling that Americans were idolized and all the guys I worked side by side with, all of them dreamed of going to America and making a million dollars, and the addage is true they all wanted me to meet thier sisters, really, in hopes i would take them back with me...I explained to these guy's its no different up here than it is down there, you have to work your ass off up here as anywhere else, the ones that got rich easily, are the ones that took money and kinda created the mess this country is in, it was alot of greed and corruption and thats why I asked how you feel now about the US compared to a few years ago...as i said be honest you wont hurt anyone's feelings and maybe you can enlighten us....do you view the US as a beacon for the world as once it was? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: June-27-2009 at 10:09am
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I'd like to hear from Luch, Roger, Kristof, Kap...
Not one of you picked up on 'restraint on gov't' What exactly does that statement imply?!!? ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: June-27-2009 at 10:12am
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Cap and tax barely got through the house...better call your senators!!!!!!!! ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: June-27-2009 at 10:25am
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they are worried the CIA or Bushes cronies will be knocking on thier doors....like the old KGB days ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: June-27-2009 at 10:28am
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Greg, What? ive been paying to close attention to MJ's death to even worry about government problems, FF too, Im glued to the fin TV for new developments ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: June-27-2009 at 10:41am
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Why is MJ more important than our existance? Or maybe I should say prosperity? So few want to get involved these days...and that's what they count on.
The whole reason I posted this is because I just about fell out of the bed when I heard Barney say that. For cripes sake...shouldn't a senator know the rule of law? The Constitution gives rights to us all...not just the lousy reps we keep putting in office. If we could represent ourselves better and lay off of entertainment tonight, then they might fear us instead of what we have now. Franklin maybe? Nope T Jefferson. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: June-27-2009 at 10:47am
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confuse and conquer, pre-occupy our thoughts with BS, while they slip it into you ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: June-27-2009 at 10:57am
We have 3 blank pages in a bill that's BS to start with. Have you read it? How can this be a representative government?!!? If you really want to push the envelope, the guy taking our money at the point of a gun is a proven tax cheat himself. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: June-27-2009 at 11:02am
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BTW, MJ, oxy contin flu? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: June-27-2009 at 11:07am
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Rush Limbaugh next? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: June-27-2009 at 11:14am
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Greg, The people of Massachusetts LIKE Barney Frank, & Ted Kennedy & John Kerry & the rest of the pols that represent them. Funny thing is, I've yet to meet someone from down there that will admit to voting for any of them, but the always get re elected. ------------- |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: June-27-2009 at 11:20am
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Hey Luch, any South Carolina Govonor visits in your neighborhood? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: June-27-2009 at 11:20am
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All 3 you listed have never had any legal issues.
The back seat of TK's car is only more dangerous if jane fonda is in it and fresh back from barney's?!!? ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: nautiless
Date Posted: June-27-2009 at 11:33am
Perhaps it implies government is out of control? Not sure about this. I honestly believe that governments may not be out of control, but rather lacking wisdom when making decisions and creating policy and legislation. Although not exposed to your daily life under the powers that be, if i view American politics and perception from a distance to get a broader perspective, my opinion is that the focus away from God over time is the consistent change and the reason why the state is failing. Godly wisdom from leaders require a firm foundation in faith. I do believe that America as a percieved leading nation has an added responsibility to bring about change. I fear the government is failing dismally and other nations are following the example. It saddens me to see this happening in my country too. ------------- 1982 SN 2001 RIP (Resto in Progress) http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4400 - Don's Diary |
Posted By: nautiless
Date Posted: June-27-2009 at 11:40am
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"It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and Bible."
"It is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore his protection and favors." All by George Washington. Say this today as a politician and get flamed. ------------- 1982 SN 2001 RIP (Resto in Progress) http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4400 - Don's Diary |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: June-27-2009 at 11:54am
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'Liberty and Tyranny' by Mark Levin
This book will never see the desktop in government school. They don't want us to know.  ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: June-27-2009 at 11:55am
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so are the ten commandments just stone? and that happens to be the almighty's constitution ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Luchog
Date Posted: June-27-2009 at 12:57pm
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Hey guys, yes the Governor thing was on all newspapers this week, what a coincidence eh? now all the tabloids are into it.
As for your question, I will tell you that as you said, capitalism is the same everyworld, or almost, the difference is that what you call "the American Dream" for us is the chance to start with absolutely ZERO and then getting credits, loans etc to make something out of it... or dont as I guess finally happened in the US, and then mess the hole system. But for many is a way of stepping up in life, here most people are doomed to what they were born with. But there's also another side to the story, and that would be consumism, it's stuck on people's head and frankly the US are the world leaders on that, maybe the japaneese too but it's a close race, people around here are really into the consumption junction thing, therefore they worship Americans for that and believe, as you do that you have the "best products in the world" and that "made in america" is a certificate of happiness, and since consumism is a non stopping thing it's always evolving. Now on the US situation, I'm not into full detail neither know economic details, but I can give you my general thought on the thing. I think most people live with way more of what they really need, and it doesnt have anything to do with life quality, how can life quality be affected for a 3 years older boat or car? How is it that you turn on the TV and see those guys throwing away hundres of thousands (or millions) on parties, jewels and excentric details while so many other are in need? Dont get me wrong,I understand people worked, or daddy worked, but when does it start being too much? where is the line? An example is an actor earning 20millions dollars for a movie, what the hell, he's only and actor!!!, it's just a movie!!! You work a hole life 24/7 and dont make that profit. Capitalism turned into something sick, not because of people earning money, but because of people that dont, there are as many or more looser than winners and I'm not talking comunism, but a government has to take of all, at least for the most basics things on life, yes the rest is up to each one. But life is not only for those who profit. I felt really good when Obama won, I have the sense he's a different man and I think it's a chance for the American people to change minds, and start living a little bit different if that's possible, yes that could mean sacrificies for you all. You might not agree with his policies but I doubt he will do something shameful for your nation, as were many images from the past 8 years or the latter on middle east running over the media. Changes are scary, and nobody likes to be the one who looses in them, but then why cant you now when other's been there for years? It's still the same game, just different rules. I hope nobody got offended, I know most people here are hardcore Americans and very proud of it, I'm wishing you the best of lucks, and I'm sure you'll all do well. PS: Eric dont ever get me started on religions!!! ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2095" rel="nofollow - 1980 Ski Nautique Commander 351W |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: June-27-2009 at 1:16pm
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I'd say the OBamas are very much into consumerism. A few weeks ago I saw a pic in the paper of Mrs. Obama sporting a new pair of $400 designer sneakers. The Bush's have a lot more money than the OBama's, but I bet none of them ever sprung $400 for some designer sneakers. ------------- |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: June-27-2009 at 4:45pm
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Luch, you won my respect, the worst thing Ive ever heard when you bring up actors thier famous sob story is i use to work 12/14 hours a day being a waitor or waitress until i was found...a the ripe age of 20, cry me a river.
Riley if he turns this place around, I'll send him a set of 500.00 sneakers. And Luch, One thing that sticks in my mind that i will never forget when I traveled down there, was seeing the smiles on peoples faces, genuine in fact a smile with the sense of true happiness not happiness from a material item, the family values and friendships that i was exposed too doesnt compare to anything close here, I see your pictures all the time and thats the first thing I think about, all the people are smiling and most probably have next to nothing well 2 cars and a big house, you know what i mean....but i begged the company i worked for to transfer me down there and they wouldnt because of issues with employing within the country...but I saw what i saw and explained to these guy's that worked side by side with me making 7 bucks a day, why would you want to leave a paradise like this and go up there? For the American dream? if i had the opportunity right now and things were different i would be right there with you sipping a Polar or a Bohemia with a big smile ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Kristof
Date Posted: June-27-2009 at 5:14pm
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Greg,
To me the "restraint" thing means exactly what it says... The constitution is by all means a restraint on government, keeping them within bounderies. That's why in our country when government wants to make a change in the constitution, they need a 2/3 majority of votes in parlaiment. Corruption and BS from government is from all times and all countries. There are enough other reasons why the US are still a beacon for other countries. I also agree with Luch. Yesterday at a barbecue with some friends, we were discussing this. People always want more, and a lot of people over here live above their means. People can get loans where the monthly downpayments are more than 50% of their salaries. A few years ago you couldn't get a loan if the downpayments ecxeeded 30% of your salary. ------------- - Gun control means: using BOTH hands! - Money doesn't make one happy, but when it rains cats and dogs, it's still better to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle... |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: June-27-2009 at 8:18pm
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Kristof...I completely agree with what you had to say. Do check the definition of mandate and maybe read that first statement in quotes again. If it's me I'll appologize.
------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: June-28-2009 at 12:57pm
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Come on guys, the politicians know what's best for us - isn't that why we elected them?
It won't be long before $4 per gallon gas looks like a bargain. I know we aren't going to get much sympathy from our european friends here, as they are already painfully taxed on energy. Maybe this wouldn't be so bad if they actually used the tax revenue for something productive; that will be the day! Email sent to both my congressman & Senator letting them know my position. It doesn't take long to make this communication - if you don't at least try to affect the outcome,then you can't complain later. Thanks for starting this thread Greg! ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: Luchog
Date Posted: June-28-2009 at 2:01pm
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Eric: I dread that a big number of those who voted for Obama are not that much into change, they were just tired and annoyed at the last Government and will not support Obama's policies once they get up on their feet where they were before the crisis. I hope I'm wrong, but that would happen here for sure.
The problem I see with consumption is not materialism on itself but the shallowness of content that goes with material things, most people want to live like a catalog photo booklet but few care about a good novel. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2095" rel="nofollow - 1980 Ski Nautique Commander 351W |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: June-28-2009 at 5:47pm
Luv this post! People are out in the middle of the night scraping off bumper stickers. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: Kristof
Date Posted: June-28-2009 at 6:42pm
Correct Chris... $4 per gallon IS a bargain  ------------- - Gun control means: using BOTH hands! - Money doesn't make one happy, but when it rains cats and dogs, it's still better to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle... |
Posted By: Kristof
Date Posted: June-28-2009 at 6:45pm
No apologies necessary Greg, and yes I do know the meaning of mandate... We give the mandate to our politicians when we exercise our right to vote... Even when it's a choice for the lesser evil.
Same thing happenend at our last national elections two years ago... Payback happened at the local elections a month ago. ------------- - Gun control means: using BOTH hands! - Money doesn't make one happy, but when it rains cats and dogs, it's still better to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle... |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: June-29-2009 at 10:09am
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I dont know what the master plan is, another friend is losing his job, he works for Accuspray in which 3M bought them out, as of september 3rd they are moving it down to Panama...basic economics, if your middle income and you hire a Mexican housekeeper, she sends that money to Mexico, she needs a raise, you give her one now all of a sudden you cant afford that 3rd car for your daughter going to college.....there is one choice here, fire the housekeeper and clean the house yourself, this concept is a consumer choice not a government choice, education and awareness of why the country is in turmoil is in front of everyones eyes, we cant keep blaming the government, sure there are laws that they can change to make business prosper but thats not going to happen. one thing government cant change are the day to day decisions me and you make. a never ending source of income is transportation, it is an item that wears out and needs replaced every few years, unlike housing once built its there to stay ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: azeus17
Date Posted: June-29-2009 at 11:27am
Try telling that to the auto makers. Even Toyota posted a loss this last quarter. First time in 60 years. I know we don't really see eye to eye politically, Eric, but I don't get you. I few months ago, you were in this same forum talking about taxing the rich and taking as much as we can from them. Now, you are complaining that your city wants to tax you, which most people would consider rich (seven figure property). I have tried to stay out of this forum as I usually just get upset, but couldn't resist. I think a lot of people thought Obama was going to be this miracle worker and impliment all these great programs and everything was going to be the best quality, and best of all, FREE. Reality kicks in and all of the sudden we have to pay for this stuff?? Nah, only the rich will have to pay for it, and they can afford to pay some more, right? Think again. How many more people do you think are going to have their electricity cut off in the middle of winter because they can not pay the extra tax from cap and trade? That will effect the poor more than the rich. Great plan oh savior of the middle class! Obama has proposed a health care plan that cost more than any other president has ever spent in history, even the evil GW Bush on his wars, and only covers 1/3 of the people. Does this sound smart to anyone? This is why I have to stay out of these forums. I get way off topic and carried away. Back tot the point. I have contacted my senator and congressman. Have you? ------------- Boats: Current: 02 SANTE Sold: 89 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: June-29-2009 at 11:43am
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I heard the WH spokeswoman for energy and climate change talk about cap and trade this morning. She said it's only going to cost American households about 50 cents a day...AND she had to admit that she hasn't read the bill. Of course that's the number from the WH; much higher estimates are out there.
I wish I had a nickel for every dodge and duck I heard this morning. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: Luchog
Date Posted: June-29-2009 at 1:06pm
Sorry but I dont caught smartness in that comment, are you comparing a health plan, whatever kind or cost it is to invading 2 countries because a guy you never caught and weapons you never found were supposed to hide there? Economically speaking, are you talking about the costs on saving people's lifes vs. the cost of terminating them??? For sure a bullet is cheaper than a good Doctor, you get that one. I know most guys here are not just hardcore patriots, but religious as well, sometimes I wonder what kind of God do you pray to, is it the one on churchs or the one in the green sheets of paper? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2095" rel="nofollow - 1980 Ski Nautique Commander 351W |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: June-29-2009 at 4:06pm
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its worth 7 figure if someone is willing to pay that, were talking about property taxes not income taxes, the property was de-valued and taxes should follow suit, it is also on paper not liquid, i would be the first one in line if my income was 1,000,000.00 per year, and would glady give up 40% of that for the betterment of the country which it should be. I still am for taxing the -f- out of the rich....there is no reason in the world i couldnt live on 600k a year. you can contact whoever you want on the Hill, the change starts at me and you, I pay my share of taxes and dont mind, what i do mind is paying higher taxes on something that has been de-valued,
I gave the pubs a chance for 8 years and we are in a mess, a cluster fcn mess, they lost the spot because of thier own doings, people were looking for a new answers because of the mess...what he does from here on out is hard to tell, I particuliary dont like him, but I was done with the 10 Billion a month going over seas, probably the same money out when you run down to your local Toyota dealer, its time we take care of ourselves, Azues, the country was built on Capitolism, the computer age is here and gone and you can buy a computer for 200 bucks, A major piece of the puzzle is missing, the auto industry ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: June-29-2009 at 4:08pm
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10 billion a month into the health care system surely would be a damn good cure for the health system, on of the biggest costs for employers is Healthcare, eliminate that and the price of goods comes down...fact ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: June-30-2009 at 10:04am
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people make mistakes everyday, they need to regulate and cap malpractice insurance, god forbid someone should die on the table due to a mistake from a surgeon, some of these frivalous lawsuits are settled in the 50 to 80 million dollar range, greed kicks in again, if i had to put a cap on the value of life it surely wouldnt be in the millions, if you put a cap on it, you dont tie up the courts, the body aint even cold and the money wheel is rolling in the livings heads, how the fk can money make you feel better about a death? im sure in Luchs country this stuff doesnt happen? little do you know you are paying these lawsuits in everyday items you purchase ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: azeus17
Date Posted: June-30-2009 at 5:07pm
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Luch-
The point I was making was that many, not all, but a lot of the complaints I hear about the wars are the monitary costs. Example, Eric's post above. People, for the most part, are not concerned with the human cost. Right or wrong, that is what you hear about most. Eric- I have to agree with you that we need to take care of ourselves first before we save the world. However misguided he was, I think GWB was looking out for us when he invaded Iraq. Will anyone dispute Saddam was a bad guy? Probably not. Did he have nukes now? No, but how long until he did (same with NK and Iran)? We all know he was not apposed to using WMD's. He chemical bombed his own people! I hear what you are saying about the computer age, trust me, I work for a company that makes an actual, tangable, sellable good. It is not getting any easier. And one of the things that will make it worse, and possible close this plant, is cap and trade. We use A LOT of energy to heat and cool water, to run blow molders and screen printers, and filling equipment. If this bill passes, it could be the 50 lb weight that breaks the camel's back and they just shut this plant down and move it to our other plant in Mexico where labor is cheap and so is energy. Instead of adding a new tax, why doesn't Obama reduce  the tax on people and companies to allow them to spend that money elsewhere and stimulate the economy? Maybe my company could invest in some new equipment to add capabilities. Maybe hire some needed help. Maybe instead of paying this new tax, some people would spend money buying the products I produce right here in Jacksonville, FL and my job will not get shipped to Mexico and I can keep driving my Chevy Tahoe built at Arlington Assembly in Alrington, Tx and have fun on my CC built in Orlando, FL. See how that works? Doesn't that make more sence than, "Tax everyone until everyone is poor"?
As for the property tax thing, I hear what you are saying. My home value went down and I think the taxable value should go down too. But, I am for all taxes going down, not just the ones that help me personally. Again, sorry for the rant. ------------- Boats: Current: 02 SANTE Sold: 89 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: nautiless
Date Posted: June-30-2009 at 5:40pm
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Food for thought.....
1. What have you last done within your circle of influence (things you can directly change)to remedy what upsets you? 2. How does what you have attempted in point 1 contribute to changing your circle of concern which you yourself cannot directly change? Complaining is easy. What activity do we each undertake to make a difference? ------------- 1982 SN 2001 RIP (Resto in Progress) http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4400 - Don's Diary |
Posted By: Kristof
Date Posted: June-30-2009 at 6:16pm
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Don, very filosofical, but nontheless to the point...
My grandmother always said to me: start whiping in front of your own door first. BTW... there will never be a government in any country anywhere in the world that can satisfy all of it's people. There's a saying here that says: "No cook as ever been found who could amuse everyone's mouth". ------------- - Gun control means: using BOTH hands! - Money doesn't make one happy, but when it rains cats and dogs, it's still better to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle... |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: June-30-2009 at 9:56pm
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From my favorite radio guy and something that applies across the board:
ALWAYS REMEMBER Don't believe anything you read on this web page, or, for that matter, anything you hear on The Neal Boortz Show, unless it is consistent with what you already know to be true, or unless you have taken the time to research the matter to prove its accuracy to your satisfaction. This is known as "doing your homework." In other words, be careful of which 'newspaper' you buy and always wonder about the motives of said 'newspaper'. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: Luchog
Date Posted: July-01-2009 at 12:19am
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Malpractice is getting quite common around here too, so now for many things you need to sign some paperwork first. Numbers arent nearly that high as you stated, but in many cases it has helped stop unnecesary procedures that doctors did to charge on prepaids and also to generate some good care for procedures.
I have had this "great" prepaid health insurance for the past 15 years, they will cover a percentage out of 40 therapy sessions every 3 years (because I chose the therapist) If not they choose one for me and I have it for free. And that is almost the only thing I use it for. A woman joining the prepaid can get her boobs done after three months. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2095" rel="nofollow - 1980 Ski Nautique Commander 351W |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-01-2009 at 9:56am
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Luch, any cap and trade on a Boob job? the more energy you use the more you will be penalized, so some 38 doubles would be a touch more expensive, how the F did that one slide through.
Nautiless, I tag shop, sometimes very impossible though. and try to spread the word as a result Al Franken WTF!!! We know 2 things are inevitable, taxes and death, taxes have to come from somewhere, were not a big oil producing country, electronics? The Japenese...same with cars, we do export alot of wheat and corn, thats about it, we keep selling our technology to other countries and they build upon that, Oh forget Azues, we export alot of Chemicals also. The middle class keeps getting squeezed, we take care of the poor and the rich steal from us, I hope Bubba gets ahold of Berney and his sons and take thier turns while they make the wife watch, he is one guy i would let out in general population, with a big target on the back of his pants, sht rolls down hills and the rest of his crew will get whats coming, how much is enough? he couldnt stop in the hundreds of millions. the only thing the consumer can do to start a cure is to be smart with your money, writing your Senator (Al Franken Ha Ha) the guy probably cant read..write your Govonor??ha ha kallefornia yeah right, what ever happened to the bald headed wrestler? Jesse, send him a note. when he said time for change, he hit the nail on the head cause thats all that i have in my pocket......change ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-01-2009 at 10:12am
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what ever happened to the game of Risk? little blipps on the map. and they are squeezing our n-ts ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: July-01-2009 at 1:34pm
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I wonder how many Americans have roofing material designed for 'high solar reflectivity'?
Just curious because you'll need it to sell your house soon. This and so much nobody even knows about yet is part of what was added to cap and tax at 3AM. I wonder how many would have called their congressmen last week if we had known this was in there? This is hardly a representative republic when they won't let us read it...nancy pelosi! And I know I didn't capitalize a few things...that would show respect. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: July-01-2009 at 1:56pm
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I should add that it's still in the senate and there is still time! ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-01-2009 at 11:24pm
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off to congress then the pres. for a final sig? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-02-2009 at 7:38am
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BTW, MJ, doctor assisted suicide? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-02-2009 at 10:15am
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good news, ford beat Toyota for the last 3 months
bad news, unemployment almost at 10 percent ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: nautiless
Date Posted: July-02-2009 at 11:09am
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Eric, maybe then there is value in having a big blue heart in my nautique after all. ------------- 1982 SN 2001 RIP (Resto in Progress) http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4400 - Don's Diary |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-02-2009 at 11:29am
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Ive grown fonder of Blue, good for those Ford guys
im trying to start some conspiracies with the MJ thing, maybe it was staged to get out of debt, im CNN bound. he moved in with Jimmy Morrison, Elvis and Marilyn ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: July-02-2009 at 11:35am
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I think his estate is insolvant...and I'm way past the 24/7 coverage. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: July-02-2009 at 11:36am
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CNN?!!? ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-02-2009 at 1:04pm
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yeah, i could congere up some stories and put my on spot views out there lol, i wonder if he'll get a break on his coffin ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: July-02-2009 at 6:25pm
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Eric,
Tried to call you at the shop today but got no answer. Your either real busy or taking an extra long weekend. Figured I would just leave you a message here. Sorry for the threadjack... Are you going to be at the shop tomorrow? I was thinking of bringing the boat in the morning if you will be in. No work tomorrow for me, but wasn't sure if you would be open or have room for the boat... Let me know. you can call me on mt cell if you want. 330_704_6334. Thanks, Now back to the MJ coverage... ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-03-2009 at 9:11am
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forgot no saturday cause of the fourth, i will be in on friday though, back to our regulariy scheduled program ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: July-03-2009 at 10:47am
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Just so yall don't think I get all of my news from that hateful Boortz guy...
http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/27301/ - Cap and Trade-Glenn Beck ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: July-03-2009 at 12:32pm
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Sorry I'm so late.
Greg may be worth a look to see what's happening around the world. http://www.pointcarbon.com/ - C02 Now speaking from the unofficial 53 state how is the US viewed well my view is you stand at a cross roads now in the US keep going the old ways or change both have $ pain its which will keep the US number 1 in the world long term? ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-09-2009 at 10:03am
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whats up with you pubs? I dont like my job so im quitting.....good call.
pokin the beehive lol wise choice on Mcains part ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 62 wood
Date Posted: July-09-2009 at 4:07pm
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Eric, maybe she's tired of fighting the system lol...
she had my vote... how could you go wrong? ..run their own bus., guns, fishing, 2 stroke sleds...and not bad looking. too many 'bama voters were like my ex employee... he was tired of old white guys running the country.. he sure got his wish  the bailout crap and stimulus package... spending already short tax dollars on infrastucture repaire as the answer? good for a while, if we can afford it? two local county airports just got 1.4 mil to repair airplane PARKING AREAS? and Im supposed to be excited?
WHAT A JOKE. When will they realize we need to get manufacturing back!?? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1117&sort=&pagenum=6" rel="nofollow - 64 American Skier 62 Classic.. 73 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: 62 wood
Date Posted: July-09-2009 at 4:12pm
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BTW, where the H are the millions that attended his inauguration?
ohhhh yeahhh, probably busy trying to get MJ memorial tickets.. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1117&sort=&pagenum=6" rel="nofollow - 64 American Skier 62 Classic.. 73 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: July-09-2009 at 4:33pm
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Eric Pubs a bad Idea no money in them now 24/7 job, 3 have gone round here this year not helped by the recession and the smoking ban in public places so you have to stand outside to drink and smoke, so most now have a 6 pack or 2 and stay at home drinking and smoking indoors on the internet.
Your best bet is to brush up your Russian and go for a job with this guy has a few boats and a new one on the way. http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,462862,00.html - Something to play with ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-10-2009 at 12:06am
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UK, Re-pubs, lol, but the bars or as you refer to them as Pubs are also suffering terribly, I dont even like parking my car at the local establishment, the new trick here is the poooliiice will take a reflective marking pen and walk through the parking lot and mark the cars tires, at 2:30 when the bar closes they wait down the street with thier lights facing the road and watch for the reflection from the tires....then they pop them. ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-10-2009 at 12:15am
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Steve, i sit here and think on what possibly the government could do to turn around this mess, thier trick bag is empty and i really think they are starting to sweat...we cant run the country on service alone, we need products to sell. we cant keep moving numbers around to make it look good, unemployment is slowly raising to the 2 digits, im sure it will hit that mark. I keep hearing it will turn in October, then December, then to february. i Think they should maybe start by using years 2010, 2011?? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 62 wood
Date Posted: July-10-2009 at 2:37am
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Eric,
The unemployment rate in our county is 9.8% and its still rising (Good thing its not 10%, ehhhh?). We live in sister towns (Sterling/ Rock Falls)that combined, have around 25,000 people. Back in the 70's we were known as the hardware capitol of the world. That along with a steel mill, that at one time employed around 5,000 itself..... thats 12 to 15,000 jobs... Today...they're All GONE! .... And Im supposed to get excited (it made the front page of our local newspaper) about the 10 jobs, lasting a few months, that this airplane parking is going to bring?... Give me a break.... ohhhh, I almost forgot. We did get a new Walmart Distribution center a few years ago....guess you gotta store all the chinese stuff somewhere til it sells? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1117&sort=&pagenum=6" rel="nofollow - 64 American Skier 62 Classic.. 73 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: July-10-2009 at 10:38am
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Eric I had you down as a guy that used a bar that backed on to the river, if its the same as here there are no limits on boating apart from common sense, but car its around 1 1/2 pints that's it, or its a road side test (blow into a breath tester) if positive back to the cop shop for a blood test in court and a automatic ban from driving
for 1 year more if real bad case. ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: July-10-2009 at 10:48am
You're kidding, right? Prezbo was only in congress for a hundred and forty something days...and when he was there he mostly voted 'present'. That's a dirty trick marking those cars! ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-10-2009 at 11:45am
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your trying to confuse and conquer me Greg, it seems fighting within the inner circle seems to be the norm, 8 years possibly ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: harddock
Date Posted: July-10-2009 at 12:22pm
Word is only four of them missed work that day! People wanted change, Congress runs the country, Congress didn't change, Country didn't change (much for the better) President just helped stack the deck. CHANGE CONGRESS.... Vote out all incumbent Senators, and Congressmen. We have a government that has become too powerful for our own good. They vote themselves, raises, have the best healthcare, travel, retirement pensions, and no term limits. If you don't get caught with the wronger hooker or stealing money from the wrong source your in for life. This has to change. 1/20/2013...............................Obamas last day in office ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4487" rel="nofollow - 1998 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: Luchog
Date Posted: July-10-2009 at 1:13pm
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I think many of you need to understand the "pregnancy phenomenum".
When you have a kid, it's not because of what you did last night, but because of what you did 9 months ago. You talk about loosing jobs and companys falling down, but you seem to forget that didnt happen in the last 4 months... that's been happening bacause of the last 8 years policies. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2095" rel="nofollow - 1980 Ski Nautique Commander 351W |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: July-10-2009 at 2:15pm
And this statement goes straight back to Barney Frank and company; not to Bush. I wonder why people with a little cash are holding on to it for dear life? Is it confidence in our new leader?!!? ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: 62 wood
Date Posted: July-10-2009 at 2:38pm
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Luch,
I totally understand it didnt happen overnight. I dont mean to "single" this pres out and blame him by himself for getting us in the mess, but he is good at the "smoke and mirrors" game. Im just sick of the head games the majority of the "G men" seam to play today. 'Bama has claimed to have "saved and/or created" 150,000 jobs?!? WHERE??? This while unemployment continues to skyrocket. Maybe what he really means is instead of 1.6 million actaul jobs lost...it would have been 1.75 million? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1117&sort=&pagenum=6" rel="nofollow - 64 American Skier 62 Classic.. 73 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-10-2009 at 2:43pm
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Luch, I'll throw one at you, it was the administration before that, it skips 8 years lol....it dont matter, we just keep getting squeezed.
Greg, trying to get you going since i dont have Donzi boy badgering me today ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: July-10-2009 at 2:54pm
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The mortgage problems started with our buddy who only slept with hillary. Bush went along with it for a little while, but when he tried to do something about it... Then you have Barney's boyfriend either running fannie or freddie?!!?
I just heard a mortgage broker on the radio who said they had to get someone upstairs to sign off if they wanted to decline someone who wasn't white. If I went to the bank with 30,000 in collections, I suspect the door would hit me on my way out. Better call Donzi boy...I'm about to go off! ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-10-2009 at 5:16pm
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i would be in the front of the line if Billy ran again, I had money in my pocket, he did something right..im saying that man to man, not Demmy to Repub. ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: July-10-2009 at 9:16pm
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Billy wasn't so busy with politics...he mostly left alone what Reagan did do. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-11-2009 at 9:48am
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I kinda figured that would be the reaction, good statement though Greg, wasnt busy with politics..ran the country as a business. Kennedy couldnt refuse the blonde and he is an Icon....lol ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: July-11-2009 at 9:56am
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You're pretty sharp for an instigator. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-11-2009 at 10:16am
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Good morning ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: July-11-2009 at 10:19am
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And to you!
I appreciate a guy who cares to be informed. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-12-2009 at 11:26am
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Greg, no comments on our leaders recent destination? I heard he packed his plane full and it was standing room only lol ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: July-12-2009 at 11:49am
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Eric, maybe you could ship some kool-aid to Russia and Ghana. Seems they haven't been drinking it. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-12-2009 at 11:59am
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We'll just put a CVS at every corner, and let the doctors start writing...we'll never hear from them again ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: oledawg
Date Posted: July-12-2009 at 5:00pm
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Hey guys, after a long career in textiles/apparel where I made many a lobbying trip to DC to push my perspective on things, my only comment is that all politicians are pretty much alike, if it is about their PAC money and can affect re-election, they care, if not it doesn't matter.
Anyway, I digress. I am about to commit heresy I think because I have found this SWEET 92 Donzi 16 with a 302 V-8 that runs like stink, ie over 60 mph and sounds awesome ( straight pipes out the transom just below the deckline. Price is good due to some serious negotiating also. Questions are: what is the upside and downside of jumping in on this? What do you guys know about this little Donzi, which is apparently one of the first boats designed by Don Anorow ( Donzi, Formula, Cigarette, etc. ). Oledawg 87 CC Riviera  ------------- "To profit from good advice requires more wisdom than to give it" |
Posted By: harddock
Date Posted: July-15-2009 at 2:09pm
It was named by a girlfriend one night when Don couldn't sleep thinking of a name for his new boat. She said something to the effect " Oh Donzi just come to bed ". I owned one of his last designs (Squadron X11) a 24' with a 454 sweet boat. He led an interesting life and made NE88th St. Miami Thunderboat Row. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4487" rel="nofollow - 1998 Ski Nautique |