oil type and weight ?
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=15121
Printed Date: November-18-2024 at 12:56am
Topic: oil type and weight ?
Posted By: julian1972promo
Subject: oil type and weight ?
Date Posted: August-31-2009 at 10:30am
| i have a 1972 302 holman moody what weight oil and type is best for that motor? |
Replies:
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: August-31-2009 at 6:33pm
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rotella straight T30 I don´t recall well, but someone will chime in soon, do some search and you will find tons of threads on the subject.
another popular oil here is the valvoline VR-1 (racing only)20-50.... ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: vondy
Date Posted: August-31-2009 at 9:06pm
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I use the VR-1 in my 69 302 HM. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4645&sort=&pagenum=1 - 69 Mustang HM |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: September-01-2009 at 1:29am
Me too, the 20w 50 ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
vondy wrote:Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-01-2009 at 8:37am
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Scot,
There's lots of info here on oils. It's been discussed preaty heavily. You can do a search if you want to read more but the bottom line is you want a oil that has ZDDP in it. It's been removed from most oils in recent years. Our older flat tappet engines need it. I too run Valvolene VR1 (silver bottle) 20-50 in all my boats. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Donald80SN
Date Posted: September-03-2009 at 5:50pm
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I am running Straight 40 Weight Valvolene VR1 in my 80. You can get it at some NAPS Stores. It is called Racing Oil and not for on road use so it can be little hard to find in the weight that you want. I came up with the staight 40 from a search of this site. I will be changing mine soon so any advice would be appreciated it I am using the wrong weight.
Also people use the Shell Rotella . Donald |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: September-03-2009 at 11:51pm
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Donald - 40W is great for the summer, might be hard to start if you ski in colder weather (not many people do, but this crowd has a few that do!). ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: Donald80SN
Date Posted: September-04-2009 at 1:14am
SNobesessed, Thanks for the info. I am not one to get in the water in the Winter Time. Too much swrinkage !!!!!! I will winterize mine in mid October so that a cold snap does not catch me off guard and I break a block. Thanks Donald |
Posted By: storm34
Date Posted: September-04-2009 at 3:53am
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I wanna see pics of your promo! Did you buy the one off the site?! Love those boats! ------------- |
Posted By: mrhemi
Date Posted: September-06-2009 at 3:03pm
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Be cautious with the Valvoline VR-1. I too used it in my drag bikes and collector cars, because of the need for ZDDP for the flat tappet cams. VR-1 had the ZDDP greatly reduced if not eliminated to meet the later API ratings (SL & SM I believe). At that point I switched to Valvoline motorcycle specific because it maintained the ZDDP. But now it too has had the ZDDP removed. There are a few companies now marketing oils for 60's collector cars, Brad Penn & Summit Racing for example that maintain the ZDDP because they meet the older API SG grade. They are labeled not to be used in emmission control equipped vehicles. Personnally I have switched to one of these in my bikes and old car. The Nautique I just inherited will get the same treatment.
Mr. Mike. ------------- You know you are getting to be vintage when someone says "Back in the day..." and you can dispute their facts. Mr. Mike. |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: September-07-2009 at 12:53am
Now this is going to take some serious investigation! ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: julian1972promo
Date Posted: September-08-2009 at 11:54am
| thank everybody for your help . i will get some pictures up soon . my new baby boy has been a camera hog :) |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-08-2009 at 8:29pm
Mr. Mike, One of your cars may be running on the rich side and you've been breathing the fumes!! Really, the VR1 is high in the zinc levels. Someone just posted a chart of all the levels in a bunch of different oils and it was up there, Here's what I did find regarding the VR1 ZDDP: "What solutions does Valvoline offer to the zinc issue? Valvoline offers two solutions to the zinc issue: 1. Valvoline VR1: Contains 75% higher zinc than SM motor oil with a balanced additive package designed to work in both racing and street-legal applications. This product will protect older style push-rod and flat tappet engines. Valvoline provides this product in both multi and mono viscosity grades: 20w50, straight 50, 10w30, straight 30, straight 40, and straight 60." Now, they have removed the term "not street legal" from the VR1 so something has changed. The "specialty racing" oil is now labeled "not street legal". ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: mrhemi
Date Posted: September-09-2009 at 2:26am
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8122pbrainard, I boil oil for a living so it costs me nothing but time to run a sample down to the refinery lab and get a spectrograph done (a means to verify zinc content in oil or lead content if checking fuel). The time period I am refering to is when the "Not street legal" warning went away on the VR-1 bottles, so did the zinc. That is when I switched to the Valvoline motorcycle specific oil, it still maintained a high zinc level, probably because it did not have to meet API grades, JASO instead. Approx. 1 year ago the Valvoline motorcycle oil did not advertise on the label anymore that it contained ZDDP, also it now stated "Safe for catalytic converter equipped motorcycles". Guess what, the zinc level went to virtually nothing at the same time. Your reference to the VR-1 containing 75% more zinc than an SM grade oil is correct, but 75% more of nothing is still nothing. Don't get me wrong, I have used exclusively Valvoline Racing oil for better that 30 years with stellar results, but they have apparently succumbed to EPA regs. and market share. As for the Brad Penn and Summit branded speciality oils I mentioned, I have only recently started using the Brad Penn in my vehicles so I can really not report on service life other than to confirm it does have ZDDP levels allowed in an SG grade oil. The Summit brand I have no experience with, I just saw it advertised in their catalog for that niche market. As for synthetics, let's not go there in this post.
Mr. Mike. ------------- You know you are getting to be vintage when someone says "Back in the day..." and you can dispute their facts. Mr. Mike. |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: September-09-2009 at 9:51am
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I had my oil analyzed last year & afer 50 hrs it still had over 1000 PPM zinc. Did the VR1 change in the last year? MrHemi - Could you run a sample of VR1 20W50 to your lab? I am sure we could take a collection & reimburse you somehow for the quart. Most of us are using VR1 & if it is no longer valid, we need to know. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: September-09-2009 at 11:16am
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After doing some internet research, it seems this zddp/oil is ever changing. I'm not sure if Shell Rotella single weight is even any good any more. What is a satisfactory amount of zddp? ------------- |
Posted By: mrhemi
Date Posted: September-09-2009 at 12:20pm
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I'll talk to one of the lab guys and see if I can get him to run a simultaneous comparison test for me. This all has to be done back door. I am on assignment away from home for a bit so this may take awhile. I should have some left over quarts to sample from. What I would like to test is pre VR-1 Valvoline Racing oil, VR-1 (maybe two versions of this if I can find both blends), Valvoline Motorcycle oil with ZDDP and Valvoline Motorcycle oil without. This will show the decreasing zinc levels as the API grade changed to the up to date standards. I will also try to run some Brad Penn that I have just started using to verify what the zinc content is in these specialty oils.
Analyzing a used motor oil sample for zinc content is not valid if you are looking for what is in the oil blend. You have to check a sample of new unused oil, as soon as you pour the oil in the engine it becomes tainted with what was in the engine prior. As far as using diesel oil, search some of the diesel truck websites to see oil controversy. The most recent grades of diesel specific oils are reducing the zinc content also. I really know better than to get involved in these discussions. It is worse than debating religion, but this is religion to some. Mr. Mike. ------------- You know you are getting to be vintage when someone says "Back in the day..." and you can dispute their facts. Mr. Mike. |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: September-09-2009 at 11:11pm
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MRHemi - You will be 'Mr. Oil' if you get this data, as we all count on the information shared here.
BTW, my oil analysis was done on VR1 which followed a low-zddp oil change, so if there was any dilution, it would be on the down side. As I understand it, the zinc gets used up as the hours accumulate, so having over 1000 ppm at an oil change was encouraging. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: lewy2001
Date Posted: September-23-2009 at 10:50am
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I was recently doing some research on oil for my ZF 6 speed SUV auto trans and stumbled across this article on the Penrite Oil site.
%20 - http://www.penriteoil.com.au/tech_pdfs/149%20LATEST%20ZINC%20LEVELS.pdf - Zinc Levels I have been using Shell Rimula X 15W-40 (the Aussie version of Rotella) in my motorbike and boat engines for a number of years now with good results. This article covers a couple of issues with using diesel oils I had not previously been aware of. I may switch to the Penrite HPR40 in the boat now as it has 1760 ppm not sure on what has happened to the Shell Rimula X lately. Eric I found a replacement oil formulated for the ZF it is Penrite DX-V1 at $12 a qt(litre). It also says that it is good for the latest 6 speed from GM in the US. http://www.penriteoil.com.au/pis_pdfs/PI_ATF%20DX-VI.pdf - Penrite DX-V1 I did not know that Penrite was a Australian company I always thought it was US. I may have been confusing it with Pennzoil. So I can also support a Aussie company now. Their web site is the best it has far more technical info than any other oil company web site I have come across. ------------- If you're going through hell, keep going http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2999" rel="nofollow - 89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: September-23-2009 at 5:57pm
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Lewy I put that same oil (rimula) in my 1973 vette but will change it to the vr-1 in the next oil change...Anyway I change the oil every from times periods as the car get little and no use..its a weekend driver...I chance the oil every 6 month or more if I use synthethics..
I could not open the link so what are the major concerns about using diesel oil on a gas engine? For the boat it has always been 2 changes per year no matter the hours. It was esy to remember...Now I have a log book in the glove comparment where i write down all the services done, with date and detail of the work done..Is a good way to keep a record!!! For the boat I will start using the VR-1 also..@ $10 the quart here!!! ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: lewy2001
Date Posted: September-23-2009 at 11:17pm
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Kapla the link takes you straight to a pdf (Adobe Reader) document you may not have that software loaded on your PC. It is a free download from many different websites.
Here is the link direct to the http://www.penriteoil.com.au/technical_bulletins.php - Penrite Technical Bulletins Go to the engine oil section there is a couple of Bulletins about Zinc check them all out lots of great info. Bulletin 149 is the latest one on this subject as it looks like all the oil companies have been minimising Zinc in their oils recently. ------------- If you're going through hell, keep going http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2999" rel="nofollow - 89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
Posted By: Andy
Date Posted: September-24-2009 at 2:02am
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Here ya go Pete. Straight from the hot rodders market. http://www.zddplus.com/ - zddPLUS
Eastwood sells it. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3721&sort=&pagenum=6&yrstart=1982&yrend=1982" rel="nofollow - My Blue 82 SOLD! |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: September-24-2009 at 9:24am
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I go with the 15w40 diesel Rotella in flat tappets normal use and break in, rollers i go with normal brand names, never really been a big issue, but i wont take the chance. ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-24-2009 at 11:23am
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Andy,
Thanks for that link. It really confirms there are others that believe in the qualities of the zincs as a lubricant. I am starting to here via the ACBS members, who are probably 99% flat tappet, that problems with cams becoming round are popping up!!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 92ccc
Date Posted: September-24-2009 at 2:04pm
| Does oil made for marine use such as mercruiser oil still contain zinc?I have used this in all my boats for years without a problem,also when talking to my local machinist,the lack of zinc is not really a problem for engines that are broke in,it is more pf a problem when installing new flat tappet cams. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-24-2009 at 2:43pm
Tony, Maybe your machinist is slow and needs some engine work!!! He's contradicting everthing I know, heard and am hearing. (see my last post) BTW, I feel you're just paying a premium for the Merc "marine" oil. There are equal if not better oils out there. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: behindpropeller
Date Posted: September-24-2009 at 2:50pm
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http://www.aslcamguard.com/
Another option. Personally, I think running the engine often is the best way to keep things from becoming a problem. Tim ------------- |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: September-24-2009 at 3:12pm
http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/VR-1_Racing_Motor_Oil.pdf - I'm going to be pretty pissed off if Valvoline is lying, but this says VR1 still has sufficient Zinc/Phos.
 ------------- |
Posted By: 92ccc
Date Posted: September-24-2009 at 4:46pm
| We have seen many failures of camshafts on initial install,but not in engines with miles on them---yet.The lack of zinc is not the only problem,the newer oils also have more and different detergent,this cleans away the buid up of zinc over time,this detergent helps to clean o2 sensors and catalytic convertors,I guess I should have reworded and said no trouble on broke in engines yet.Good website,jogibbsdriven.com. After reading this you will see that just because a oil has a high zinc level it may not be safe depending on the detergent. |
Posted By: harddock
Date Posted: September-24-2009 at 9:57pm
No, really give us a brief heads up on synthetics. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4487" rel="nofollow - 1998 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: September-25-2009 at 10:28am
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I use it strictly for break in, after that i really personally do not think it matters, if oil levels are sufficient and heavy viscosity, and bonding of the oils to the surface is what counts. the lifter does not really ride metal to metal, it realies on a thin layer of oil between the surfaces. thats what i was taught and just passing info, but for the record ive been changing the oil on the same boats for the past 15 years and surely dont drop 5 bucks a qaurt into them and to this day i havnt seen a cam failure due to lack of Zinc. the only time i see cam failures is on break in and thats the reason i stick with the zinc because in this case until the lifter gets its shape i use it ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: September-25-2009 at 5:02pm
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How many years has it been since the ZDDP has been lowered in conventional oils? How many of your customers only need 1 or 2 oil changes a year? Like it was said on the first page, it may take a while. I'm thinking there are a lot of LUCKY cams out there right now, but the clock is ticking. ------------- |
Posted By: scottb
Date Posted: September-25-2009 at 6:14pm
Hey, I made the Hollywood signature line. Now I'm famous ... or maybe just infamous. 
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Posted By: skutsch
Date Posted: September-25-2009 at 6:26pm
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Ok, guys the last time this was discussed, I got all worked up and did a ton of cruising on the net, trying to figure out the real deal. Eventually I found my way to StevesNovaSite.com. There is a guy on there, username "Veno" who not only researched the ZDDP content but also researched the best testing methods. No offense MrHemi, but the testing methods are as important as the actual results themselves. There are very few labs that have the appropriate equipment to complete the correct tests. Anyway, if you want to read the 23 page thread it is posted here:
http://www.stevesnovasite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80715&highlight=zddp - http://www.stevesnovasite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80715&highlight=zddp Its actually a good read and you learn a lot about this issue and you will start to understand some of the myths that are out there. I recommend it, if you have nothing to do for a few hours. Also note he begins the thread in 2007 but finishes his research sometime in early 2009, so the data is actually current. That is the problem I found with some of the stuff I found it was 2 or 3 years old, and the EPA requirements have changed. The summary of his findings are below or click here: http://www.stevesnovasite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88262&highlight=zinc - http://www.stevesnovasite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88262&highlight=zinc Oils suitable for breakin……..that are available. with enough Zinc and Phophorus.. OILS LISTED BY ALPHABETICAL ORDER NOT BY QUALITY or quantity of content. Brad penn break in oil grp2 Joe Gibbs break in oil grp2 Pennzoil GT performance. All weights. grp2 Shell Rotela T 30wt, 40wt, 15W40wt. grp2 Starbright 30Wt grp2 Starbright 40Wt (pending) grp2 Valvoline VR1.. all weights grp2 OILS suitable for street High performance use with enough Zinc and Phosphorus for flat cams and High spring rates. Up to 150lbs seat pressure. Brad Penn all weights grp2 Castrol GT 20W50 for older cars grp?? Champion XPS 20W50 grp3 syn Joe Gibbs oils grp?? Mobil1 15W50 gold cap and silver cap. grp4 syn Mobil1 Turbo diesel truck grp4 syn Mogil1 racing grp4 syn Pennzoil GT 25W50 grp2 Royal Purple racing oils syn Shell Rotela T 30wt, 40wt, 15W40wt. grp2 Quaker State Q horse power 10w60 only grp 3 syn Valvoline VR1 all weights grp2 TRACK/RACE only. Brad Penn all weights grp2 Champion XPS 20W50 grp3 syn. Joe Gibbs oils grp?? Mobil1 racing grp4 syn Pennzoil GT all weights grp2 Royal Purple racing oil all weights grp4 syn Quaker State Q RACING all weights…syn Valvoline VR1 all weights grp2 Valvoline synthetic racing all weights grp? Valvoline conventional NSL all weights grp2 Pour on top additives to boost zinc. Listed in order of zinc content ZDDPLUS. GM EOS. CRANE CAMS BREAK IN, COMP CAMS BREAK IN Some of these oils, I actually summarized in a chart and posted earlier, but I can't find it neither on my computer nor the old thread. ------------- Our http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4669" rel="nofollow - 98 Sport Nautique My Dad's 63 Ski N |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: September-26-2009 at 8:43am
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Hollywood, interestingly enough if you closely look at a flat tappet cam and lifter they dont run directly on the center of the lobe, they ride on the side. as the cam turns it swipes the lifter causing the lifter to turn in the bore. its not metal to metal sliding against eachother. I had this problem with the 460 i just did and had to buy a new cam, one of the lifters was stuck in the bore and wouldnt rotate, it took about a half hour to wipe it.
you know i go by statistics, I pulled 2 engines down this week a sbc and a bbc, the cams are going right back in because they look factory new...they are high hour poker run engines, 2 speeds stop and full power with normal engine oil changes with non zinc oils. i niether condone or condemn using the ZDDP and stated on break in I do and after that ???? i cant say you need But I cant say you dont. merely observations and from what i know and see if i was an oil company and knowing the American consumer, if they removed the zinc they put some other type of additive to compensate to avoid liabilty and I dont really think every guy on this site is running VR1, or we surely would be reading alot more about cam failures. as for now i will keep running Zinc on break in, after that... ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: September-26-2009 at 8:49am
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HW, now if the discussion was about foam and rot, we could go on for days lol ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: September-28-2009 at 4:28pm
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We've beaten the foam horse more that quinner beats his meat. ------------- |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: September-29-2009 at 10:08am
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you think he ever got caught? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |