Winterizing Question
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Discription: Anything Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=15626
Printed Date: September-27-2024 at 7:00am
Topic: Winterizing Question
Posted By: 2000CanadaAirNAutiqu
Subject: Winterizing Question
Date Posted: October-19-2009 at 2:13am
| I'm the new owner of a 2000Air Nautique. I winterized it today, I ran it in the driveway for about 10min, then I drained all the water out of the 5 plugs. I ran 5 gallons of RV antifreeze throught it, I unhooked the inlet and used that to run it through. The bucket went dry and it ran for a few seconds with no Anti-Freeze running through. Will this be sufficent for the winter. Or is there a way I can add more antifreeze to make sure all is good. It is a GT-40 EFI. And how do you winterize the ballest tanks? |
Replies:
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-19-2009 at 9:10am
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With all the water drained out, 0 gallons of antifreeze would be fine. Some drain only and have no problems. I only use about a 1/2 gallon per boat simply as a extra "just in case" there's some water still in a block. 5 gallons is just wasting money. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: trihartsfield
Date Posted: October-19-2009 at 9:31am
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Can someone direct me to an older post on step by step winterizing. I have a 1970 Barracuda with a 318 and want to get it winterized.
Also any information on what I need to add to the gas and to the carb. Thanks Chris ------------- Chris |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-19-2009 at 9:49am
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Chris,
Go into the reference section and find the Chrysler manual. Download it as you should have it anyway. You'll find a section in it on layup and it will show you all the drain locations. However, the 318 has the typical plugs on each side of the block, one in each exhaust manifold and then one at the bottom of the RWP. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Tim D
Date Posted: October-19-2009 at 2:30pm
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You ran it through by the raw water pump? If the thermostat isn't open, it will just spit it out the exhaust. I catch mine in buckets and recycle until I have hot antifreeze coming out the exhaust. I take the belt off the raw water pump. I don't mess with fogging, I just crank it about once a month and let it run about 10 seconds. That keeps the carb from drying out and everything lubed on the inside. ------------- Tim D |
Posted By: WhiteLakeSkier
Date Posted: October-19-2009 at 9:51pm
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Catching antifreeze in buckets until the engine is hot sounds like an incredible amount of work for no reason. At the marina, we run the motor on water until it is all warmed up, change the oil, and then run it again. you can tell if the thermostat is open by feeling the housing until it is toasty. you can also generally assume that it is open after a while of running the motor. When you have determined the thermostat to be open, water to the engine is turned off, and 5 gal of antifreeze (-100F) is turned on and let run through the engine. while it is running through, we like to fog the motor. when the antifreeze is almost out, you fog the hell out of it and choke it out. finished. I do not understand why antifreeze is such a waste of money and unnecessary. I personally cannot afford to risk not draining the motor completely or something unforeseen happening and ruining the motor. a 100 gallons of antifreeze is a hell of a lot cheaper than a new engine. ------------- www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5120&sort=&pagenum=1 - 1961 CC Custom American Skier |
Posted By: Tim D
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 12:59am
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You have x-ray vision? You know when it is open? I want some of that NY -100F antifreeze. ------------- Tim D |
Posted By: WhiteLakeSkier
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 3:51am
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It is open when the boat has warmed to normal operating tempature. to maintain the tempature, the thermostat must be open for cooling. I suppose you could remove the thermostat all together if you doubt it being open. -100 im sure can be found anywhere. we get it in 55 gallon barrels. good stuff ------------- www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5120&sort=&pagenum=1 - 1961 CC Custom American Skier |
Posted By: WhiteLakeSkier
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 3:56am
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I believe it is -100 not only because it is quite cold in the adirondacks, but also as backup should some water remain in the engine when running the antifreeze and dilute it. I would also, discourage going to the exhaust and collecting the liquid that comes out when you switch over to pure antifreeze for reuse. I would imagine it is diluted. but if you can afford the risk do what you wish i suppose, same goes for simply draining. ------------- www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5120&sort=&pagenum=1 - 1961 CC Custom American Skier |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 9:40am
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Michael,
I've been around alot longer than yourself. I'd like to tell you that draining only was the normal proceedure since the advent of the water cooled engine up until I'd say the early 70's. Some marinas and many individuals still drain only. Why do you discourage the practice? The use of antifreeze certainly became popular when problems came up with cracked blocks, manifolds, etc. It is added insurance so hopefully there won't be a problem. Some will say using using all that antifreeze is so the block will completely fill and add corrosion protection. Does it really do much good? You will never get it completely full especially by pumping. Also keep in mind plain old water sits in it all summer. Waste of money? Yes if more is used than is needed. Of course the marinas don't care - what's the going rate for winterizing at your marina?? Now, that's a real waste of money when a capable individual can do it himself. I still feel the pour in method is just as easy if not easier as the pump through. You still need to remove a hose but you don't need to mess with buckets. The real plus is you don't need to worry about the thermostat being open. The antifreeze will backfill via the block lower porting. Think about this: What happens when the cold antifreeze hits the T stat? Tim is over coming the problem by recirculation hot antifreeze. Lots of work, yes! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 12:03pm
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free advice from guys that do this for a living is priceless...
when you decipher the meaning of winterizing you drain and anti-freeze if you like... draining the block is insurance so it wont freeze and crack, anti-freezing the block is for rust protection, plain and simple. if i didnt get 2 hundred bucks to winterize the the engines i surely wouldnt waste the anti-freeze. for many many years on my own boats i never once used anti-freeze, no need for it. to this day all the left over boats in my lots simply get drained and thats it. AGAIN, as long as you get the cavity emptied of the water it cant freeze and expand, if any is left at the bottem it will expand to the empty area. I always made it a habit to leave my plugs out until spring, there is way to much worrying over nothing...now if the conversation was about "hey will it be allright to leave the water in the engine" then we would have something to discuss. get the water out of the blocks and manifolds at the miniumum and you will not have anything to worry about....or pay someone ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Tim D
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 2:36pm
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Collecting the antifreeze in two buckets and pouring into a 5 gallon bucket and sitting that bucket in the boat and sticking a hose in it and cranking the boat and letting it pull that out of the bucket say about three times takes about 10 minutes max. Wow, you call that work. I also check the freezing point on that which comes out. The thermostat doesn't stay open very long, I like to make sure what's inside and it has mixed with the water already in the boat, which has ran on a fake a lake long enough that I have seen steam a least twice. If you hold your hand in the water coming out the back, you can tell when the thermostat has opened, and it's not very long. I've done it this way since 1989. ------------- Tim D |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 3:11pm
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I absolutely cannot believe people (and marinas! gasp) will pump A/F through a block w/o draining the water first. This is incredibly dangerous, no matter how long you've been doing it successfully for. While guys like Tim have a great understanding of their boat and have a feel (no pun intended) for when the t-stat is open, someone reading your posts or watching you winterize your boat might not. Those are the guys that will damage their engines thinking they did it right.
Draining the block and cast iron pyramind manifolds gives you an opportunity to remove the rust and scale from your cooling system. ------------- |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 3:23pm
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I winterize a friend's Wildcat as he has gotten too old to do it himself anymore. He has operated and maintained heavy equipment all his life. He bought the Wildcat new in 1966 and always winterized it by sucking anti freeze through the through hull. One year after doing it this way for over 20 years his thermostat didn't open up and now he has Ford rather than Chrysler power because he cracked his block.
I drain and pour anti freeze in through the thermostat housing. After I drain the water, I re install the plugs and pour a 1/2 gallon in and drain the anti freeze out. Then I re install the plugs and fill with antio freeze. ------------- |
Posted By: WakeSlayer
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 3:31pm
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I presume Tim is using automoptive AF. I used to do this too, and not drain. I also recycled a couple times. I found that to be a pain in the ass, but to each his own. I always tested the output of the exhaust with a AF tester.
A couple seasons ago I switched to draining and using RV antifreeze. No brainer. It is way safer, way cheaper, and way easier. RV AF is also not nearly as nasty as automotive. I can agree on the pour in method on a direct drive, but not a Vdrive. Last year I paid some crazy West Marine price for -80 purple stuff. This year the -50 pink stuff was $2.80 ga. at Home Depot. I totally understand that drain only was the practice for decades. I learned to keep my blocks antifreezed many years ago and will continue the practice. I think it is different with a 6 month layup, versus frequently cycled water like during the summer. Just my comfort level. Last year I think someone suggested making a permanent sticky thread in the common questions section about this topic. It gets a ton of discussion every Fall, and there are many threads, almost always culminating in a debate. ------------- Mike N 1968 Mustang |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 3:52pm
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I'd like to add that testing the freeze protection is a critical step if not draining and using the pump through method. If using standard AF, you can use the standard hydrometer but with RV, you must use a refractometer. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: WhiteLakeSkier
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 3:55pm
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I would drain my block if I could afford a new one should it not completely work. generally people that have boats have enough money where a couple hundred dollars is not much to winterize there toy. I think it is easier to hook up a hose and be done with it. forget fooling around with buckets or finding all the plugs and then pouring in AF. the temp of the incoming water does not dictate whether or not the thermostat is open. if the engine is warm, it is open. if it never opens since it is really cold out, then just remove it. I dont use af for corrosion protection. it will corrode regardless. i think people would do a lot of things themselves. no one has the time to do everything, it is easier to pay someone. none of our blocks in 200 boats have cracked each year. we make money off of the using the antifreeze. Also, we have many boats to do in a short time. af is also better insurance for us, we cannot risk cracking customer's blocks. We lose money, and I personally would never bring my boat back to a marina that could not winterize properly. ------------- www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5120&sort=&pagenum=1 - 1961 CC Custom American Skier |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 4:17pm
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one thing i am afraid to do is not drain and just pull antifreeze in, to risky, it is possible to get a pocket of water that wont mix with the AF.
i drain them and use 2 gallons of anti-freeze which keeps the cost down or I would use 4 times the amount of AF, thats me though. at the minimum draining the block is sufficient to avoid a cracked block ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: WakeSlayer
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 4:23pm
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Not draining prior to using RV antifreeze is just idiotic. ------------- Mike N 1968 Mustang |
Posted By: M3Fan
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 4:52pm
As Pete mentioned, if the blocks drained of water then A/F will fill the block whether the T-stat is open or not. FWIW I drain mine, then throw a hose on the trans cooler input leading into a 5 gal bucket of AF. Start the boat, shut it off when it's empty. Nothing comes out the exhausts- everything just fills up nicely. Then I fog the cylinders individually (GT40 EFI). I also blow out the heater and blow some AF into it specifically for good measure. This year I was a moron and left one of my quick disconnects for the heater disconnected while the engine sucked up the A/F- quite the spill of A/F in my driveway. I use Sierra PG-based A/F. ------------- 2000 SN GT40 w/99 Graphics/Gel 2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI https://forum.fifteenoff.com |
Tim D wrote:Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 4:55pm
Where's the drain plug to let the water out of my water soaked foam in the floor????
How do I add antifreeze to the water soaked foam in the floor, I dont want it to freeze and seperate from the wall like it did in the past???? 
|
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 5:06pm
Some of us don't have the money! People coming to this site are asking for help so, as Mike put it, your advice is "idiotic"
You just don't seem to get the point! Even if you are using -100F RV, how do you really know if it has completely mixed? Do you use a refractometer to check any of the mix in the block?
Well now you've added a extra step to the process!! Remove the T stat housing and then what? Go get a new gasket! R&R the T stat twice!!
Time? Many will make the time especially when the marinas charge so much!! Have you ever seen the procedures as printed in the engine manuals? Maybe you should get in touch with Indmar, PCM, Chrysler, Interceptor, Graymarine, Crusader, Chris Craft and Mercruiser and set them straight!! BTW, most computers have what is called the "shift" key. It changes the first letter of sentences to capitals!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 5:10pm
Pete, I think Bruce's example says it all, wouldnt you agree? ------------- |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 5:13pm
Absolutely! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: tullfooter
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 5:20pm
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I'm with Joel, but I drain the block, then suck up the pink, but then I drain it again. I know, it's a waste of $10 of pink stuff, but why not. And I fog the carb as the last bit of pink leaves the bucket.
Gun-driver How come I have this picture in my mind of your boat, in a huge jar of AV, looking like a pickle.  ------------- Play hard, life's not a trial run. '85 BFN '90 BFN White Lake, Michigan |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 5:39pm
| That was for Eric...I know how he likes the foam!!!! |
Posted By: WhiteLakeSkier
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 5:49pm
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this is an internet forum, i do not care about punctuation here. i never said that you had to take it somewhere to have it done and pay a lot of money. i have the time to winterize my boats and not pay for labor. most of these people dont even know the make of there boat, and are very busy. at least busy enough where winterizing there boat is not important. it is foolish to tell these people that just got there boat to simply pull drain plugs, extra insurance is a waste of money, blah blah. the fact is, this method works. as does draining the block if done correctly. however, this af is much safer. I guarantee the person that does not know how to winterize their boat, certainly has no clue where the drain plugs are. i do not know why your so against extra security. my only guess is you figure that you have been just draining blocks since the beginning of time, why do it a safer way. i suppose since i have never been in an accident i might as well not where a seat belt. ------------- www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5120&sort=&pagenum=1 - 1961 CC Custom American Skier |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 5:54pm
I find this comment ^^^ (and your punctuation) analogous to YOUR method of winterization. 
------------- |
Posted By: WhiteLakeSkier
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 5:59pm
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It is not worth it to spend the extra second to press the shift key. there is no risk not pressing it however, besides angering internet people. If antifreeze is the shift key and dont press it. i risk an engine, engines cost money. i cannot afford a new engine. ------------- www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5120&sort=&pagenum=1 - 1961 CC Custom American Skier |
Posted By: tullfooter
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 6:03pm
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I feel anyone who reads this thread can take the bullet points, and figure out the proper way to protect their block. If they can't, they should take it to a dealer.
I think you guys are scaring AirCanada into never posing another question. BTW, where did Chris (79) go? ------------- Play hard, life's not a trial run. '85 BFN '90 BFN White Lake, Michigan |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 6:04pm
You seem confused. Let me try to clarify: Draining block = SAFE practice Not draining block = RISKY practice Regardless of whether or not you backfill with antifreeze, you NEED to drain the water out first. Otherwise you dont know how much water vs. antifreeze you have in the block, and you risk it cracking. See Bruce's (Riley) example above. ------------- |
Posted By: WhiteLakeSkier
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 6:12pm
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why would a marina use the risky practice? why would people begin to use af if it is more risky? we have winterized thousands of boats for a decade or so using af, no cracked blocks. af is not oil, it will mix when put with water. water is a solvent, no way around it. ------------- www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5120&sort=&pagenum=1 - 1961 CC Custom American Skier |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 6:14pm
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Some marinas obviously have risky winterization practices, and dense employees... ------------- |
Posted By: WhiteLakeSkier
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 6:17pm
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there is no time to drain a couple hundred engines in less than a month, especially since it is impossible to know if all of the water has drained out of each engine. ------------- www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5120&sort=&pagenum=1 - 1961 CC Custom American Skier |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 6:22pm
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WhiteLake, I would love to comment on your work ethics, but best for me to stay out of the conversation. Better yet is to keep my boat out of your shop.........Boat dr ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 6:23pm
But it's not impossible to know if a thermostat is open and what protection your antifreeze cocktail provides... ------------- |
Posted By: WakeSlayer
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 6:23pm
I just winterized this same model the other day. You are good to go. I would not worry a hole lot about the ballast tanks. The aerator pumps should drain. If you are worried, pull a hose off the pickup and blow moderately compressed air through the line. Your only risk is the pumps and I doubt anything would happen. If it did, then you would have to replace the pumps and it would give you a reason to install ballast puppies. Not the worst downside I have ever heard of. Back to today's scheduled debate. ------------- Mike N 1968 Mustang |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 6:24pm
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Ya, if i were paying that much and found out they were winterizing that way (no drain), I'd go supernova on them. ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 6:24pm
As you said, draining takes longer in some cases- so some marinas apparently take shortcuts, as you can attest to. That doesnt mean its the proper thing to do. I suspect that lots of people perform the RISKY practice of backfilling only (no draining) because they heard from someone that it was OK to do. We try to prevent the spread of misinformation on CCF, and thats why everyone is jumping all over you.
Again, Ill cite Bruce's example above. After 20 years of using your procedure, his buddy cracked his block. It shouldnt be a surprise! A/F may dilute with water, but the freezing point is greatly affected when it does so. Without knowing the ratio of water to A/F, you have no idea how much freeze protection you have. RV Antifreeze is not meant to be diluted at all! ------------- |
Posted By: WhiteLakeSkier
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 6:27pm
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why would the thermostat be closed if the engine is warm? it has to be cooled or it will go from warm to really hot. I dont know what work ethics have to do with this. i wish you all would focus on the actual thing being disagreed on, rather than acting like children. when you argue with children they do the same thing and start going off on other things. too much circular reasoning going on here ------------- www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5120&sort=&pagenum=1 - 1961 CC Custom American Skier |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 6:28pm
The on-demand shower pumps can take a cold snap too. I do know that if the shower pump is off but if the outlet hose is left "open" water will still flow through and start to soak your floor. The only way to "winterize" the shower pump is to fill the line with A/F and pressurize it (blow) until it clicks on. I don't know much about ballast pumps, but I'm thinking they are pretty resiliant to a little frozen water as well. ------------- |
Posted By: WhiteLakeSkier
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 6:29pm
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we are not using rv anifreeze, it is not -50, but -100 ------------- www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5120&sort=&pagenum=1 - 1961 CC Custom American Skier |
Posted By: WhiteLakeSkier
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 6:32pm
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It is more than taking shortcuts. af has the best rack record for not being risky, and on top of that it is time effective. we dont use af just because it is quicker than draining ------------- www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5120&sort=&pagenum=1 - 1961 CC Custom American Skier |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 6:39pm
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You're totally not getting it, are you high? ------------- |
Posted By: WakeSlayer
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 6:40pm
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The ballast pumps in those boats are just attwood or rule bilge pumps.
HW, Interestingly, the shower I sold Johnny was winterized Oct 2005, and when ran it before I removed it this Spring, the antifreeze was still in it. I had never turned it on since the first Fall I had it. Are the newer ones different and do not have the valve plate? Just curious. Always DRAIN Mike ------------- Mike N 1968 Mustang |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 6:41pm
The thermostat opens or closes as the coolant temp rises or falls. This has little to do with block temp.If the block temp is 200 and you pour in 75 degree mixture the 'stat will slam closed till the mixture reached the opening temp of the thermostat,140 or so,,,,,,,,,,,DUH????? ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: WhiteLakeSkier
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 6:43pm
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that makes no sense. the water being that meets the thermostat is cold as well. the af is cold too. why would it close just when af hits it ------------- www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5120&sort=&pagenum=1 - 1961 CC Custom American Skier |
Posted By: C-Bass
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 6:47pm
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Several comments....
1. Your punctuation may save you 2 seconds, but it also makes you look stupid. 2. Just because you work at a marina does not mean every process you're using is the best process. 3. Stop arguing about whether or not A/F is the big debate here...read the comments...it's about NOT draining the block. Quit going back and making it purely about A/F vs. no A/F. And on this...
I gotta disagree, I just did this whole process last weekend and it seriously took about 5 minutes for the block to drain out. While it was draining I was unhooking the RWP-Tstat hose preparing to fill with A/F. Whole process took about 15 minutes. ------------- Craig 67 SN 73 SN http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6103" rel="nofollow - 99 Sport 85SN |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 6:48pm
I've moved that box around like 6 times and haven't even peaked inside yet. It could be the same pump. When I sourced mine it was a Shurflo (in my BoM)? I'd think there is some "holding" volume in the pump that could retain fluid. Perhaps before I install it I'll run it out of the boat, then flip it upside down and see if anything drips out to find out if there is any kind of valve plate inside.
THEN do whatever you want with A/F to get the benefits it provides. ------------- |
Posted By: WhiteLakeSkier
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 6:54pm
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haha not capitalizing here is nothing compared to what some of the other people do. they use words as if they have never went to school. i am dissapointed i let myself get into these internet fights. they always are pointless and nobody will change their mind. ------------- www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5120&sort=&pagenum=1 - 1961 CC Custom American Skier |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 7:02pm
White lake can't do 10 boats a day?? That's not even including Saturdays!!! Do they simply have their inexperienced laborers do it? You also don't know but I worked at a marina. We drained first and back filled per the engine marinizers recommendations. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: WakeSlayer
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 7:07pm
How in the hell do you know that?
No, I meant the valve plate that get mounted under the gunnel. Main/Hot/Cold, that will never let water past it. Not one in the pump it self. I am sure the factory pump I have is the same as what you got. 12V RV pump. ------------- Mike N 1968 Mustang |
Posted By: WakeSlayer
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 7:09pm
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I think a halfway motivated 16 year old kid could be trained in an hour, given three wrenches, a nut driver, and a bucket and /or funnel, and handle the whole lot of boats after school hours. Problem solved for $8 per hour, $10 if he is fast. ------------- Mike N 1968 Mustang |
Posted By: WhiteLakeSkier
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 7:13pm
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no, we cannot do 10 boats a day. a lot more goes into putting boats away then an assembly line of winterizing. they all have to be washed, many have to be driven from all over the lakes. once they are winterized, a lot have to be dropped off at customers camps which are all over the place, or towed back to camps. their is not enough people or time to do many boats with all of the other things that need to be done. ------------- www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5120&sort=&pagenum=1 - 1961 CC Custom American Skier |
Posted By: WhiteLakeSkier
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 7:19pm
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i know it is -100 because it is written label of the 55 gal. barrels! The winterizing is only handled by mechanics anyways. the other people and i change lug, change oil, and winterize the e-tecs. ------------- www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5120&sort=&pagenum=1 - 1961 CC Custom American Skier |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 7:21pm
Toasty, uhm is that a metric toasty or Fahrenheit? All this time feeling, could be draining.
I suppose one can generally assume when its not your boat and someone else will cover the repair.
Determined? How? what I miss inbetween assumming and toasty? With no load on the engine the tstat is just cracked at best, hoping the af dilutes the circulating water enough and consistantly is too reliant on luck and pure volume. Hundreds of boats times 5 gal each... Where is all this ethanol glycol going? The problem is the water, so just drain the water. If you like to add the af that way because you think it is slick, sure, but displacement is more effective than dilution. Hoping a five dollar spring opens to save a $2500 shortblock is, i don't have words. ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: C-Bass
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 7:23pm
|
No offense to you personally, but that's exactly why I do as much of my own maintenance as humanly possible on everything I own. Dealers/marinas are typically more interested in the quantity of service, not the quality.
But I still do not think draining the block takes hardly any time what so ever. Especially for trained individuals who know what they're doing  ------------- Craig 67 SN 73 SN http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6103" rel="nofollow - 99 Sport 85SN |
Posted By: scottb
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 7:26pm
| How much longer until Spring? |
Posted By: WhiteLakeSkier
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 7:32pm
|
it is not ethylene glycol, but propylene glycol. much safer. we do not focus on quantity, we charge a high rate for things because of its quality. we usually do the best around, and certainly deal the best products ------------- www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5120&sort=&pagenum=1 - 1961 CC Custom American Skier |
Posted By: WakeSlayer
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 7:37pm
|
It is not -100 if you don't drain the water first, dude. That is what everyone is saying. You are mixing 3 gallons of AF on top of 3 gallons of water. so is that -50? -25 ? -0- ?
Always DRAIN. ------------- Mike N 1968 Mustang |
Posted By: WhiteLakeSkier
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 7:43pm
|
i understand diluting something will reduce its concentration. even if it reduced its concentration, -50 is good enough for the area, as is -25. it will not stay below for -10 for long periods of time ------------- www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5120&sort=&pagenum=1 - 1961 CC Custom American Skier |
Posted By: WakeSlayer
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 8:02pm
|
But is it -50? or -25? or -9
Just get rid of the water. I used to do what you do and would be wide awake 20 nights a winter, wondering... ------------- Mike N 1968 Mustang |
Posted By: tullfooter
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 8:02pm
|
WLS
So if I follow your logic, I can pour the new oil in the top as I drain the old oil out the bottom. Sweet! That will save all kinds of time. 
Michael, your not representing the rest of us White Lake Skiers very well. Time to punt. ------------- Play hard, life's not a trial run. '85 BFN '90 BFN White Lake, Michigan |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 8:03pm
Oh, sure that thing. Forgot about that as I don't have one, probably won't use that for Johnny, just another garden hose on/off! ------------- |
Posted By: martin 74
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 8:05pm
I'm not an expert, but after I'm sure all the water is out I always fill the block with pink AF by removing the hose from the RWP to the T- stat and and pour it until full. Per the PCM manual it's suppose to keep the seals and gaskets from drying out and keeps the water jacket from rusting. Rich ------------- |
Posted By: WakeSlayer
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 8:22pm
Sounds to me like you are. That is perfect. ------------- Mike N 1968 Mustang |
Posted By: WhiteLakeSkier
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 8:29pm
|
you cannot apply logic from one thing to the other in this case tull. with changing oil, i want 100% new oil immediately. switching from water to af coolant will not give me 100% immediately, but after enough is pumped through,it will be close to it. you could change your oil in the way you said, but it would take too long since it is draining through a tiny hole. ------------- www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5120&sort=&pagenum=1 - 1961 CC Custom American Skier |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 8:30pm
|
so did we determine that the petcocks are for looks? or do they serve a purpose? Ive seen other shops run the outdrives in a tub with AF, and they constantly are checking the freeze point of the fluid. were not trying to certify merc mechanics and usually you guy's are winterizing one boat and not 10. for my piece of mind, i drain them...and they should be drained if attempting this at home, that way no worries ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 8:31pm
|
Quite the discussion. If I was a marine mechanic, I would take out the drain plugs. That way you are conforming to the manufacturer's service guidelines. Always best to follow the rules when liability comes into play.
If the plugs were rusted in or stripped (common, I am sure), that would be a great repair opportunity to make some extra money. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 8:32pm
If the winterizing process is done by the mechanics, then how can you be such a self proclaimed expert? They let you loose on the E-Tecs? Certified training? You need to change you profile as it states you are a laborer. What is the "lug" that you change? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 8:51pm
|
What is the "lug" that you change?
Lower Unit Grease........... E techs and lower units are complicated units to winerize properly.Sounds like they have LLS where he needs to be.They are spending their overhead wisely by keeping this guybaway from big ticket items.LUG as he calls it takes 5 min. and 10.00 worth of "OIL" not grease.I wonder why you always drain from the bottom and fill thru the same hole.Maybe it removes all the old stuff, never mind , it was just a thought............Boat dr ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: WhiteLakeSkier
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 8:55pm
|
lower unit grease. e-tecs are easy to winterize, since it is all done by computer. they fog themselves when you are going through the motions. you just need to change the lug on them every 3 years. repairing them is the same, most problems are electrical problems and a lot of it is done on the computer. just because i dont undertake the process by myself af winterization (i do on all of mine and the family boats) does not mean i am not completely capable. would you want a certified mechanic winterizing your investment (with antifreeze) or me? the certification allows customers to rest assured. I certainly remain a laborer however as there is more to do at a marina than winterize and play with computers ------------- www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5120&sort=&pagenum=1 - 1961 CC Custom American Skier |
Posted By: tullfooter
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 9:31pm
Dude, I was being facetious. But answer me this. How do the E-tecs fog themselves? And remember, Represent!  ------------- Play hard, life's not a trial run. '85 BFN '90 BFN White Lake, Michigan |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 10:32pm
Steve, Since he didn't really pick up on you quick oil change comment, maybe you'll need to also explain to him the meaning of "facetious"!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 10:36pm
|
We used to have our Barracuda winterized by the local marina until we saw the mechanic driving drain plugs back in with a hammer. It was the mechanic's way to shave time off the job, but he still went the distance and drained the water. Better than not draining at all. ------------- |
Posted By: harddock
Date Posted: October-20-2009 at 11:30pm
|
I got nothing here! if I can't say something nice (and nothin is coming to mind)
I know some drain and that's it. Sorry but I learned to add anti freeze after draining and thats how I do it. I do the same with the camper and for me it's cheap isurance. Either way I have never heard of pumping antifreeze without draining first. I have worked at several and hung around several more local marinas that between them do thousand + boats a season. As for I/Os I have heard of places removing the lower units and storing them for the winter. The reason.... They charge dearly for taking it off, putting it back on and storing it. Once ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4487" rel="nofollow - 1998 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: WhiteLakeSkier
Date Posted: October-21-2009 at 12:51am
|
Of course the lug is oil, it is just written everywhere as lug. you fill from the bottom so that no air bubbles created. filling from the top might create air pockets. they are not complicated at all to winterize. you move the throttle out of gear a few ways each in timed intervals and it shuts itself off when finished fogging. I would assume it fogs itself by injecting more oil into the cylinders then usual. we change the lug on the fleet e-tecs every year since they are beat on, and every 3 years for customers. i dont even ask if i can winterize since i dont have the money to buy someone else a new engine should i make a mistake. plus, im glad they dont have me working on a lot of the boats. i rather be dealing with people on the docks then being buried in engine compartment ------------- www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5120&sort=&pagenum=1 - 1961 CC Custom American Skier |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: October-21-2009 at 1:51am
|
It gives you more time to advise others how to do a job that your boss does not trust you to do.
I bet you voted for Obama Too............. ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: WhiteLakeSkier
Date Posted: October-21-2009 at 2:18am
|
Trust is not the only sign of competence. That is not my job, I am not employed as a mechanic. I only winterize the e-tecs since I am always in the position to do so(in the launch, at people's camps). LUG is changed by me as well since it is on the same level as washing a boat and other support tasks. Consider my job like the support staff in an operating room, everything is prepared and put away by me, the physician just comes in to do the procedure (mechanic). I may not have the degree, but I can easily do what the mechanic does. As many nurses, etc. could do what the physician does, but lacks the pre-fix in their name. ------------- www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5120&sort=&pagenum=1 - 1961 CC Custom American Skier |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: October-21-2009 at 2:44am
It's getting deep in here.  . If you are not high you must be like 15 years old then.------------- |
Posted By: WhiteLakeSkier
Date Posted: October-21-2009 at 3:36am
|
Oh yes, explanations are so juvenile. I guess I must like, be like high or something dude. Like I was way too deep back there. For someone that is not fifteen you sure do use 'dude' and 'like' similar to someone of that age. At what age do you sophisticate your language and stop referring to people as 'dudes'? ------------- www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5120&sort=&pagenum=1 - 1961 CC Custom American Skier |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: October-21-2009 at 10:17am
|
Doctors practice, mechanics repair....it was quiet for a long time, we need to give 79 a one day guest pass. he had a way to make you come back and fight ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: October-21-2009 at 11:47am
He must be getting serious, he's using the shift key!
Who's the dude, man? ------------- |
Posted By: WakeSlayer
Date Posted: October-21-2009 at 1:37pm
|
Dude. ------------- Mike N 1968 Mustang |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: October-21-2009 at 2:15pm
|
Sweet. ------------- |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: October-21-2009 at 2:20pm
|
allright valley boys ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: harddock
Date Posted: October-21-2009 at 2:27pm
|
Spend time on the docks with customers.
Are you (like) a petroleum transfer specialist? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4487" rel="nofollow - 1998 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: dmiracle
Date Posted: October-21-2009 at 2:37pm
| Just curious dudes.....How do I winterize my boat? |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: October-21-2009 at 2:37pm
Oh, now I get it.
You like mix up some -100 antifreeze and then the mechanic puts it in there. That is good for probably whatever the weather will be. Your customers will pay you $300. The mechanic goes home but you stay to clean up the mess and put the tools away. Taste a little bit of the antifreeze out of curiosity. Now you are a mechanic but paid 1/3 as much. Burn one in the car on the way home then go post this info on ccfan. ------------- |
Posted By: lonestar
Date Posted: October-21-2009 at 2:51pm
|
Ive decided to bury my boat at a minimum of 36" below the surface of the driveway to insure im below the frost line for this area. Im just waiting on a soil sample to decide if I should leave the cover on or not ? ------------- lonestar |
Posted By: WakeSlayer
Date Posted: October-21-2009 at 2:57pm
|
I am going to need a big assed backhoe. Our frost line is 6'.
Dang dude. ------------- Mike N 1968 Mustang |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-21-2009 at 3:08pm
You could always haul it to White Lake and have the specialists do it. Remember they use that special -100F antifreeze. Don't worry about the $300 tab because as a added bonus the dudes in the yard will light one up and share it. Now, if it's too far of a trip, you can follow this procedure. It's a great tread and has more pictures in it that the manual. http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8368 - per the manual lay up - pictures by Tim ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: WhiteLakeSkier
Date Posted: October-21-2009 at 4:30pm
|
Wow, all of you are better at being pricks then giving advice. ------------- www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5120&sort=&pagenum=1 - 1961 CC Custom American Skier |
Posted By: harddock
Date Posted: October-21-2009 at 4:49pm
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Now you'll have to go see the nurse cause we hurt your feelings. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4487" rel="nofollow - 1998 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: WakeSlayer
Date Posted: October-21-2009 at 4:52pm
|
I would rather be a prick with an uncracked block.
I did offer some really, really sound advice: Always drain your block no matter what you do after. ------------- Mike N 1968 Mustang |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-21-2009 at 5:21pm
Sorry you feel that way but you pushed us into it by repeatedly not taking the advice we gave. Our combined experience is years beyond yours and with your present attitude you will never catch up. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: October-21-2009 at 7:00pm
It took lottsa years of OB,IB and Stern drive service and repairs to be as prickey as I am. Seen lots like you come and go in this industry.Wisdom is an amazing quality, I know less now than I did 30 years ago, I let the grey hair do my talking. I do the service orders and order and install the parts needed, Karen takes the money. I do not try to dazzle the owner, just swap him my ability for his dollars. Seems to work real well for an OLD MAN......... ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: Fl Inboards
Date Posted: October-21-2009 at 7:27pm
|
Winterizing??? Whats that??LOL! ------------- Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise. 1993 Shamrock "fat" 20. 2008 Nautique 196 5.0 |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: October-21-2009 at 7:44pm
I have also that question!!! LOL ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: WakeSlayer
Date Posted: October-21-2009 at 8:08pm
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Winterizing is what we do instead of battoning down the hatches for a hurricane. ------------- Mike N 1968 Mustang |