68 Wildcat 440 Project
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=15811
Printed Date: November-13-2024 at 9:51pm
Topic: 68 Wildcat 440 Project
Posted By: wild blue
Subject: 68 Wildcat 440 Project
Date Posted: November-13-2009 at 1:19am
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I,m a new guy starting a new project. Looking forward to learning about CC restoration.I found Wild Blue through a friend of a friend (the Wildcat is blue). W.B.was sitting bow down exposed 30 something years,so as you might guess,most of the wood is mulch.My plans are leave everything I can original.W.B. looks exactly like the Wildcat in the 1968 brochure. After reading about stringer repairs and such for the last month I realize it might take three to five years to finish do to time and $$$$$$, but that's alright because she's a looker and I feel it will be worth it. I hope it's ok if I hang around picking your brains.
To date I now have the 440 unstuck, dist.unstuck,alt.unstuck,starter still stuck, manifolds off,cooling system drawn on paper, sandblasting engine parts, and am stripping everything off I can to catalog. It took some time to get the title to the boat straight, and am still trying to get the title to the trailer LOL. Hope to pull the 440 this week. Look forward to looking inside the oil pan and under the bearing caps. I'll keep you posted. Please share your thoughts. Mike S. @ Smith Mtn.Lake Va ------------- mike stoher sr. |
Replies:
Posted By: critter
Date Posted: November-13-2009 at 1:25am
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Welcome Mike... We like Pictures.
Sounds like you have a good project there and will have incentive to complete it as you watch other boats out on the lake. Good luck and ask questions as you go along. But do searches as there is tons of information in the archives. ------------- 1980 Ski Nautique 1966 Barracuda |
Posted By: wild blue
Date Posted: November-13-2009 at 1:26pm
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This may be a dumb newbie question, Here goes. When you say archives, are you referring to searches on this site, or some closet at the factory, or both?
This pic is where I found her. Kinda like a new birth photo. I have started jacking the trailer out of the ground. Mike S @ SML ------------- mike stoher sr. |
Posted By: Air206
Date Posted: November-13-2009 at 1:44pm
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Hey Mike - Welcome!
Where are you on the Lake? We are up near Indian Point on Grimes Creek (R39)........ Be happy to help with the extraction if you need an extra pair of hands..... you can email direct or go through the site.. 78skitique at gmail dot com Steve  ------------- https://tinyurl.com/y6t5e3bu" rel="nofollow - 04 Air206 http://tinyurl.com/9urzgls" rel="nofollow - 91 Barefoot 78 SkiTiq |
Posted By: critter
Date Posted: November-13-2009 at 2:27pm
I am referring to the Search option within this site. Key word searches work very well. ------------- 1980 Ski Nautique 1966 Barracuda |
wild blue wrote:Posted By: wild blue
Date Posted: November-13-2009 at 10:21pm
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Thanks Critter for making the archives thing clear, and yes, the search does work well. How can I find what the original interior looked like? What is left of the rotten vinyl is white with medium blue cord. Any one know? In the 1968 brochure the Wildcat is Wild Blue's twin ,but do not see the blue cord. The floor looks red with black around the edges. Anyone know about this? What kind of material is used for the floor covering? Thank you in advance for the answer back.
Hey Air206,can' believe it but we are lake neighbors. Out of 500 miles of shoreline I,m at Grimes Creek as well (R39). My dock is straight back where you must make a U-turn. Green roof and orange pontoon boat docked there, or it was before the rain 2 days ago. Give me a shout if you see anything like that float by.  Thanks for the offer to help out extracting 440 however Wild Blue is away from SML now. My son-n-law has a grade-all at work that can pick it quick. I made a stand to set the 440 on to jack it up to drop the oil pan. Has wheels so I can move it.
Thanks again though. I'll catch you with E-mail soon. Mike S @ SML ------------- mike stoher sr. |
Posted By: Air206
Date Posted: November-14-2009 at 3:11am
No way Mike! There is another CCfan member wayyyyyyy down by the damn. Glad you are close.... we are building a house on our property... the point lot with the the mosaic retaining wall and beautiful street lamp near the water (I love that lamp!!)  . The 206 is in the single lift. Walk up and grab a hammer and some nails!
I'll call ya soon........ BTW - just came back from the lake tonight... water was over the stationery docks and the floaters are higher than the catwalks..... crazy sight (It has apparently already dropped 8.8 inches from it's max and looks like that!) Good News - no Orange Pontoon floating along......... Steve ------------- https://tinyurl.com/y6t5e3bu" rel="nofollow - 04 Air206 http://tinyurl.com/9urzgls" rel="nofollow - 91 Barefoot 78 SkiTiq |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-14-2009 at 9:15am
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Mike,
The floor covering used was vinyl wall covering. As far as the blue cord goes, that's anyones guess!! CC was never consistent with colors. It was more of a mix and match of what they had the most of!! Post some pictures of the blue cord. I'm having trouble placing it and where it was used. It may or may not be original. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: wild blue
Date Posted: November-14-2009 at 11:40pm
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Hey Steve,
Checked on things today, and felt lucky it quit raining when it did. Lots of trash floating and the water is stained. Someone lost a green and white stingray up around R42. Got within 1 inch of covering the deck of my stationery dock. Pontoon is floating fine. If tomorrow is as nice as today was (72),Sunday traffic running through all the debris up our end of the lake 
You have a real nice place. Makes me want to get my ringer washing machine off the front porch. Talk with you soon, Mike S @ SML ------------- mike stoher sr. |
Posted By: wild blue
Date Posted: November-15-2009 at 12:09am
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Pete,
Thanks for your reply. The vinyl has been in the sun so long it is almost like potato chips, however I did get a pic of what is left of a butt cushion. I'll post it as soon I get more education (is that spelled rite?) 
Mike S. @ SML ------------- mike stoher sr. |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: November-15-2009 at 11:06am
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The Wildcat was a high end boat like the Barracuda. Unlike our 66 Mustang which had the commercial wall papering for flooring, our 67 Barracuda and my friends 66 Wildcat had a rubber like foor. I have not seen that material for sale any where. I know of a '68 Barracuda that still has some of the orgianl flooring in it and it has nautolex type flooring which is still available in some colors. My friend bought his Wildcat new and I remember it well as a kid. It had padded white side panels and seats same as the Barracuda. I think they started changing the seats from the wood bases to the metal frames in 68. If you look in the brochures, the 68 seats look different. The 68 Barracuda I've seen had the newer type of seats.
I've always liked that blue Wildcat in the brochure. I've never heard of one with a 440 in it. That will be a cool boat, well worth the effort to restore it. ------------- |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-15-2009 at 2:06pm
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Bruce,
We are talking about a 68. Here's a good shot of the Cuda SS in 68. Can't get more top end than it. It has the vinyl wall covering. Looks like one of the grass cloth patterns.  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: wild blue
Date Posted: November-16-2009 at 12:52am
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Riley/Pete
Thank's for the replies.Sorry I have not been able to move pics to forum. Any hints or suggestions? I'd be grateful. The seats have an alum. frame like want I've seen for Mustangs, but sit taller. Got 1 weld cracked and 1 weld broken both repairable. The back of the back cushion is 1/4 in. ply wrapped in vinyl with a pocket with a flap attached to the center of it. The pic of the 68 cudaSS floor covering reminds me of the material that was used in trunks of cars in the 60's-70's. I'm thinking a good weather resistant vinyl with a grain to it (auto top?)might work,and be able to take dye if need be. I guess I'm long range thinking. Need to see the insides of the M440 first. No need picking colors too far before the house is built. So Wildcats w/ 440's are rare. Makes me feel better about investing the $$$$$$$$. Mike S. @ SML ------------- mike stoher sr. |
Posted By: wild blue
Date Posted: November-16-2009 at 1:00am
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Forgot to ask.
Would someone tell me if the blue is MERIDIAN or SOPWITH? Thank's again, Mike S. @ SML ------------- mike stoher sr. |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: November-16-2009 at 3:11am
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Mike, I don't know what color that is, but it was popular with Mustangs and Skylarks. You don't see a whole lot of Wildcats of any color, but I've never seen one that color except for in the brochure. Nice color on that boat.
If your seat frames looks like these, I'd like to see some pics of what the seats looked like if you have them. 
Look on the kick board, sometimes there's original flooring on it. This is what's left of a 68 Barracuda. ------------- |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: November-16-2009 at 3:20am
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I think it's Meridian blue.Check out my Mustang,thats what it is. My guess is that the Sopwith is darker. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: November-16-2009 at 3:26am
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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=193&sort=&pagenum=7 - Sopwith?? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-16-2009 at 9:18am
Mike, You can do a on line search for vinyl wall covering. Lots comes up!! You can also go to a wallpaper store that handles vinyl. They should have sample swatches. You're better off looking at them that the on line samples. There are several different weights of material too. Many including myself looked for years to find the flooring untill it was realized that it was really the wall covering. Leave it to CC to come up with a alternate economical choice for covering the floors. The stuff did last for years and years though!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-16-2009 at 10:30am
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Mike,
Regarding the posting of pictures, first use the "post reply" and not the "quick reply". In the "post reply". you'll see a icon with a tree and arrow. Click on it and a "browse" window will come up. Click on it and yo'll be able to post pictures that are on your computer. Be careful on the size posted. If too large, it makes the thread hard to read. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: wild blue
Date Posted: November-16-2009 at 12:33pm
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Pete,
Thanks again, I'm sure you saved me from wasting time searching for floor covering. How do I reduce my images from 1750kb to 500kb. I'm closer to posting images than I was before. Isn't progress great? Thanks !!!! Gary' Sounds right. I'll call it meridian blue. Thanks Riley' Seat frames are like yours only lower part taller. This boat sat for about 30 years in a field behind an old mans shop (older than me) He told said he couldn't remember when in the 70's he used it ,but gas was 39 cents. The carb. was stolen ,he lost interest and the boat became a catch all for trash. Under the trash was a layer of filth with weeds and moss growing. He never registered or titled the boat or trailer (said he did,just can't find them) I found the guy he bought the rig from (still breathing), said he never registered them either. He said he bought the rig from a contractor over the mountain to the east but could not remember his name or where he lives. I have the boat title problem worked out, still fussing with the state DMV over the trailer  More later' Mike S. @ SML------------- mike stoher sr. |
Posted By: wild blue
Date Posted: November-16-2009 at 12:40pm
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Pete'
Thanks for the info about flooring. Saved time I'm sure. Getting closer to posting images. Tanks to you. Can you tell me how to reduce image size from 1750kb to 500kb? thanks again, Mike S. @ SML ------------- mike stoher sr. |
Posted By: wild blue
Date Posted: November-16-2009 at 12:44pm
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Gary,
Sounds right, I'll call it meridian blue too. Thanks, Mike S.@ SML ------------- mike stoher sr. |
Posted By: wild blue
Date Posted: November-16-2009 at 12:57pm
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Riley,
The seat frame is like yours' except the lower part is taller. After 30 years exposed the only thing in the floor of this boat was 2 inches of top soil growing weeds and moss. The padded side panels are good for a pattern, Only rotted away 3 inches up as is the motor box. Think I'm getting closer to some pics. Thanks to Pete. Thanks' Mike S. @ SML ------------- mike stoher sr. |
Posted By: Air206
Date Posted: November-16-2009 at 1:13pm
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Virginia's DMV is horrible to work with on trailer titleing.... No manufacturer's Certif of Origin....... no luck. They are a bunch of folks not willing to use common sense. Good Luck with that...
BTW - Roanoke DMV has done a little bit better (more flexible if you can call it that) than Rocky Mount. I have an issue with my 78 Tique trailer which was titled as homemade in NC. I wanted to put antique plates on it ...Oh my Gosh, you would have thought I was a pulling a bank robbery!! ------------- https://tinyurl.com/y6t5e3bu" rel="nofollow - 04 Air206 http://tinyurl.com/9urzgls" rel="nofollow - 91 Barefoot 78 SkiTiq |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-16-2009 at 1:22pm
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Mike,
The sofware you use for the pictures on your computer should have a resizing feature. If not, then some will use photobucket.com. You can set the photobucket account to automatically resize any picture downloaded into it. Then you copy the picture from it into the thread. If you're are computer savy as I am, then it gets complicated too!!!------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: wild blue
Date Posted: November-16-2009 at 10:00pm
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Hey Steve,
My trailer has a Va. assigned serial number attached to the frame as a homemade would. I showed pics to DMV lady with bill of sale. No help, said I must go on line to apply for abandoned vehicle title. I did and they charged me $25 to tell me that number was not in the DMV records, but was titled in Ohio, I should call Ohio DMV. So did and they were great. Said Horse spit we don't have any num. like that and faxed me letter for proof. Went to DMV today (about an hour) Different lady was more help. She called Richmond will I waited and I think after a 15 day waiting period and reapply and wait 21 more days this might work out  I'm going to wear them down. You say YOU have DMV troubles?
Call me when you can. Mike S. @ SML ------------- mike stoher sr. |
Posted By: wild blue
Date Posted: November-16-2009 at 10:12pm
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Pete,
Thanks for the info on Photobucket. Going to add this task to my Bucket list. I've enlisted the help of someone smarteryoungerbetterlooking .Hope she can figure this out.
Mike S. @ SML ------------- mike stoher sr. |
Posted By: Air206
Date Posted: November-16-2009 at 10:16pm
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Mike -
Maybe the New Yorkers are right........ it is easier to buy a gun in Virginia (certainly is easier than to title an old trailer). Maybe we can both wear them down ....... I am quitting for a while as they have worn me down. Let me know if you find a chink in their armor! Steve ------------- https://tinyurl.com/y6t5e3bu" rel="nofollow - 04 Air206 http://tinyurl.com/9urzgls" rel="nofollow - 91 Barefoot 78 SkiTiq |
Posted By: wild blue
Date Posted: November-16-2009 at 11:04pm
first try.
Fingers crossed !!!!! ------------- mike stoher sr. |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: November-17-2009 at 2:46am
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Once you get sanding on it Mike,it will darken up a bit, look in the search function for how to do it. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: wild blue
Date Posted: November-17-2009 at 2:00pm
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Gary S,
Washed it with Soft Scrub to get rid of the fungus growth and it totally removed the rust stain on the starboard bow caused by an old tire rim left sitting. The hull ( I think) is in good shape except for some chips and gouges. Top side has allot of spider cracks, but not as bad as some I've seen on this site. The plan is to focus on the 440. Been sandblasting removed engine parts and painting them several a day. Did not get the engine lifted out past weekend, hope to soon. Mike S. @ SML ------------- mike stoher sr. |
Posted By: Waldo
Date Posted: November-18-2009 at 12:00am
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Mike. Neat boat. I love the boats with the squared off windshiled.
Waldo |
Posted By: wild blue
Date Posted: November-18-2009 at 7:13pm
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Thanks Waldo,
The pics I have posted are where I found her sitting. I knew it was a classic and loved her looks, but when I found this CCF it made me want to invest the time and $$$$$. I wonder if CC factory appreciate this following? I see you are an IOWAN, me too,however I was transplanted to a warmer climate at an early age. Yea! OTTUMWA 
Mike S. @ SML VA. ------------- mike stoher sr. |
Posted By: wild blue
Date Posted: November-20-2009 at 11:18pm
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Coupler question
When I removed coupler from the 1 inch prop shaft it came off very easy. After reading about how tight they are, it seemed strange. I cleaned the flange by sand blasting (careful to stay clear of the bore) and found what looks like a tap broke off flush. I thought it should have a third set bolt. Right? The tap does not protrude into the bore and does not stick up enough to loosen by tapping with a punch. After closer look I found some mushrooming on the back of the flange the appears to have been caused by a hammer. Is it trashed or should I keep trying to save? Someone must have gotten there first. Please, what do ya think about that? Mike @ SML ------------- mike stoher sr. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-21-2009 at 11:01am
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Mike,
Time for a new coupling half! The coupling to shaft should be a interference fit (.0005 to .0015 under) and typically bored to fit the shaft due to variations of the shaft OD. If your's came off so easily, there is a good chance that the boat was run with the engine/shaft misaligned. This will cause the coupling to move slightly with each shaft rotation and fret. The fretting will wear the bore larger over time. Considering the hammer marks on the coupling, it sounds like a PO has a hacker!! He probably didn't even know what shaft/engine alignment is!! Since you have the shaft out, check it for straightness. It shouldn't run out in the middle more than .002 or .003 at the most. Don't forget to check the prop taper aft of the strut/cutlass. A bend there is common if the prop took at hit. If you find any bends, you may want to consider getting a ARE shaft/coupling set up. The same price but whats nice is the coupling end is a taper fit. No worries about getting it on and off plus they run very true. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: wild blue
Date Posted: November-22-2009 at 2:08am
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Thanks Pete
I'll have the runout checked first of the week. Where is a good source for driveline parts? Skidim? Thanks again, Mike @ SML ------------- mike stoher sr. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-22-2009 at 12:14pm
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Mike,
I just saw in another thread where Eric referenced a source/manufacturer for the ARE double taper shaft/coupling. It's got to be in one of the "shaft" or "strut" threads. I'll see if I can find it. Skidim is certainly a source for many parts but may not be the best buy. They also are no longer a supporter of this site so I suggest avoiding them. Correct Parts is so give Karen or Billy a call. They would be a good choice if your shaft is good and want to go back to the single taper too. You would need the coupling half. Then, the new coupling is bored to match the OD of your old shaft. After the coupling is fit/pressed on the shaft, it's always a good practice to chuck up the shaft in the lathe and do a light cut on the coupling face so it runs true to the shaft. BTW, the easy way to install a shaft with the pressed on coupling is with the engine out. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: November-22-2009 at 12:20pm
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Elbert's, he is the manufaturer..his name is Cecil. its in Oregon....Google ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: wild blue
Date Posted: November-23-2009 at 12:34pm
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Thanks Pete and Eric,
Got a starter problem, please advise. I bench tested the starter--nothing but a spark. I then tried turning the drive (looks good, no rust, no wear and moves forward freely)but could not pry the armature to move. took the plate off the back end an found a rusted water mark 1 inch high on inside of plate. The brush holders were rusty but freed up with PB Blaster. Slight oxidation on copper brush brush contact on arm. but no wear. The problem seems that the arm. is stuck to the field. Question: OK to spray PB or WD-40 into starter without harm wiring? Don't want to force. Feedback please, Mike S. @ SML ------------- mike stoher sr. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-23-2009 at 1:37pm
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Mike,
With one of the ends removed, the armature may be stuck to the field magnetically. Take it apart and clean everthing up. Check the end bushings for wear. If worn, they too will cause the armature to drag on the field. Consider taking it to a shop for a rebuild but if you want to do it yourself it's not that hard. Considering the armature and field ohm's out indicating it's good electrically, a shop will only do a couple things: New amature bushings, Turn the commutator, Undercut the insulation between the commutator segments, Install new brushes and check the Bendix. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: wild blue
Date Posted: November-23-2009 at 11:00pm
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Pete,
Sprayed the unside of the starter with WD-40. Let it sit and lightly tapped the armature out using a block of lead as a buffer. Only rusted on the lower side. Could not believe still has paint on the magnets. Found no sign of wear, not even brushes worn. Cleaned some rust off armatur, greased bushing and made sure brushes were making contact. Put it together to bench test Seems perfect!! I love it when things go well. Hope it will do as well under load. I think I'll have a beer and see if my luck holds out with the altanater.
Thanks again, Mike S. @ SML ------------- mike stoher sr. |
Posted By: wild blue
Date Posted: November-26-2009 at 2:07pm
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Anyone know of a Wildcat or a similar boat that I can get measurements and pics of rear seat. Mine had nothing left to use as pattern. Wildcats in diaries are old and inactive. Mostly need to see how the lower portion is constructed.
Thanks and have a great Thanksgiving, Mike S @ SML ------------- mike stoher sr. |
Posted By: p/allen
Date Posted: November-28-2009 at 12:52am
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Check with 62wood. I think he still has a 1970 wildcat for parts. ------------- Pat http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w146/72ccfan/100_5977-1.jpg - My 72 Skier Rock River Dixon,ILL. |
Posted By: wild blue
Date Posted: December-01-2009 at 1:29am
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Do you think this might be the original color vinyl for a 68 Wildcat? Another pic try Mike S @ SML 
Damn I think it might have worked. or not? ------------- mike stoher sr. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: December-01-2009 at 12:22pm
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Mike, you cant link to pictures on your hard drive. You either need to upload them to this site (use the image icon, which looks like a tree with an arrow), or upload them to an image site and link to them here when you post (using the image icon- tree with no arrow). The advantage to using an external image site (like photobucket) is there is less of a size restriction. Check the common questions forum for detailed instructions on how to post pictures. ------------- |
Posted By: wild blue
Date Posted: December-01-2009 at 11:06pm
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TRBenj,
I set up my PBucket account last night, after printing off the directions . I moved an image to PB but could not move it to CCF. The image address showed up on the preview but not the image. Maybe the web address I'm using is wrong ????? I'll have my wife help me when she has time. I WON'T GIVE UP--I WON'T GIVE UP- I WON'T GIVE UP----But thanks! Mike S. @ SML ------------- mike stoher sr. |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: December-31-2009 at 9:37am
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Mike, when you use photobucket put your pointer on the image and 3 links should drop. Use the 3rd(img) and copy and paste to the forum. You can also 'quote' someone else's picture to see the code and format.
Gonna be a neat boat! ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |